President Pelosi (how does that sound)

[ChumpDumper]

Just let the government be lazy and keep no records and work without oversight. I love big, unaccountable government that works in total secrecy.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

No that is your lie Sowell. There is no spin. Liberals have been crystal clear all along, get a warrant and spy all you want. Checks and balances Tommy, that is what liberals care about, the freedoms this country was founded upon but you are so quick to toss away because you are trembling in fear of the next terrorist attack.

During WW II every telegraph message was intercepted and read, without a warrant. This was well known in certain circles including the press, but they did not publish it, because we were at war.

So don't talk as if this is something new and different, and we're "tossing away our freedoms".

It has never been necessary to get a warrant for everything. There are subtle legal points involved. No one wants to hear the details, they just want to scream "Warrantless Wiretapping!" It's simply become a political spin-cycle headline-grabber.

The "liberals" (or at least some of them) are EXACTLY trying to stop the Bush administration from "spying". They want the process to be slowed down, they want the process to be stopped depending on which judge happens to review it. They fundamentally believe we are waging some kind of imperialist occupation and they want it stopped, by any means necessary. This is just one of the means. Or, they fundamentally believe that it's more important for them to be in power than to tell the complete truth, thus the cynical news spins.

[xrayzebra]

Ah yes, the "lazy" excuse. Why are Republicans so lazy? Or maybe they're just afraid of a paper trail? Or maybe they just have outright contempt at the thought of someone having oversight over their actions?

All of the above.

Why are you so dumb? You use such poor judgement. Do you hear the
black helicopters circling, like Nbadan. Put on your tinfoil hat. Bush is
coming for you.

[ChumpDumper]

they want the process to be stopped depending on which judge happens to review it.

You should probably check the record for how many FISA warrant requests were turned down.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you so dumb? You use such poor judgement. Do you hear the
black helicopters circling, like Nbadan. Put on your tinfoil hat. Bush is
coming for you.

I don't trust government enough to let it operate without oversight or records. I guess you do trust government.

[xrayzebra]

^^Yeah, in some cases, I do. I have no choice, they (which is actually me and you)
do a pretty good damn job when it comes to protecting us. It is politicians I don't
trust too much. But the people who do the nuts and bolts work, yeah I trust, why,
because they attempt to live by the many rules laid down in the methods and
procedures to insure your and others rights are protected. Why you think those
that oppose listening in on conversations outside the U.S. are right, I have no idea.
Because most of them are against anything this country does to begin with.

[Ocotillo]

Enough of the WWII analogies. Not even close to the same thing.

[ChumpDumper]

Why you think those
that oppose listening in on conversations outside the U.S. are right, I have no idea.
Because most of them are against anything this country does to begin with.

You mean former FISA judges? And get it straight, they don't oppose the wiretaps, they oppose a complete absence of oversight.

I have no choice

Sure you do.

[xrayzebra]

^^No just people like you. That don't want the country or it's
citizen to be protected. Former FISA judges can be wrong too.

[ChumpDumper]

No just people like you. That don't want the country or it's
citizen to be protected.

Sure I want the citizens to be protected. That includes being protected FROM the government.

Former FISA judges can be wrong too.

So can I. So can you. So can Bush.

[xrayzebra]

Yeah, I hear the storm troopers in my hood every night crashing
down the doors and notice no one is using their cell phones anymore
for fear of being arrested. Get life Chump!

[ChumpDumper]

It's a slippery slope, x.

[xrayzebra]

Yeah, but the slope can kill us both, if you have you way. I
trust our government enough to know they aren't out just randomly
listening to BS conversations. Or even criminal conversations. For
the latter, they would need a warrant and show proof in court. The
other terrorist conversations are to stop acts of terror. Big difference.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, but the slope can kill us both, if you have you way.

My way is simply filling out some paperwork a day or two after a phone is tapped. If our government can't do that, we've already lost.

[PixelPusher]

My way is simply filling out some paperwork a day or two after a phone is tapped. If our government can't do that, we've already lost.

For shame, Chumper! Requiring the barest modi of accountability and oversight plays right into the hands of the terrorists who hate our freedoms so bad! [/insert irony emoticon here]

[Yonivore]

It's a slippery slope, x.

Funny how we've made it through six years of this "slippery slope" presidency and not one American has fallen off the edge of the Cons ution.

[ChumpDumper]

Funny how we've made it through six years of this "slippery slope" presidency and not one American has fallen off the edge of the Cons ution.

Yet. I'd prefer to stop the government before it gets any more bright ideas. I'm sure you'd love to give President Pelosi even more power without oversight if she says it's all to fight terra, right?

[Yonivore]

Yet. I'd prefer to stop the government before it gets any more bright ideas. I'm sure you'd love to give President Pelosi even more power without oversight if she says it's all to fight terra, right?

That'd be hard for her to explain since she would probably abandon the GWOT and start "negotiating" with Osama bin Laden.

Wake me when Bush's Jackboots start rounding up dissenters.

[ChumpDumper]

That'd be hard for her to explain since she would probably abandon the GWOT and start "negotiating" with Osama bin Laden.

Nah, since she's a San Fran-cis-co liberal, she'll want as much power over your life as possible, so the war will go on, and you'll bend over for her or Hillary or any Democrat, as long as terra is mentioned.

Wake me when Bush's Jackboots start rounding up dissenters.

Haven't you screamed for this on this very board?

[Ocotillo]

Wake me when Bush's Jackboots start rounding up dissenters.

Wake you? Heck you'll be wearing the jackboots.

[xrayzebra]

Nah, since she's a San Fran-cis-co liberal, she'll want as much power over your life as possible, so the war will go on, and you'll bend over for her or Hillary or any Democrat, as long as terra is mentioned.Haven't you screamed for this on this very board?

Naw, she will do like Clinton and just call the FBI and have about 900 FBI files sent over on
people she doesn't like.

I'll bet you were really upset over that little
deal, weren't you. But I don't recall you saying
anything about it on the board. But I'm sure
you were, because of civil rights violations. Or
perceived violations.

[xrayzebra]

Enough of the WWII analogies. Not even close to the same thing.

We aren't at war?

[ChumpDumper]

Naw, she will do like Clinton and just call the FBI and have about 900 FBI files sent over on
people she doesn't like.

I'll bet you were really upset over that little
deal, weren't you. But I don't recall you saying
anything about it on the board. But I'm sure
you were, because of civil rights violations. Or
perceived violations.

FBI files are government records. I dont' know why they can't be looked at. Sure it's sleazy, but if you think someone's rights were violated, you'd probably have to take it up with the FBI first.

[ChumpDumper]

We aren't at war?

Are we?

[RandomGuy]

well, he did Yale undergrad and Harvard B-school for his MBA, after his stint in the National Guard. So, you're both right.

First president ever to have an MBA.

Not that it means as much as one would think.

George Washington didn't have an MBA because such a thing didn't exist, but the guy was no slouch when it came to business. Besides, I think GW has firmly established that MBA does not equal business prowess.

Bush-bots like to hold this up as some kind of counter to the idiot/brain damage thing, but in the end, it doesn't mean as much as they would like it to.