Adaptable Popovich is among NBA's best

[SAmikeyp]

It is about his desire and passion for the game and that was clearly not the same as his peers.

My point was that this was not a negative thing. You seem to think it is.

[From Way Downtown]

My point was that this was not a negative thing. You seem to think it is.

I don't think too many would argue that David's lack of single-minded focus on basketball was a bad thing, in the main. I do think, however, that David earned a lot of criticism during his career with his apparent nonchalance about winning basketball games. Say that's not a negative if you will, but that mentality doesn't apply with any great force in the real world. I suspect that most who are in need of legal help wouldn't go to an attorney who has lots of outside interests and makes the practice of law a 4th or 5th priority -- and particularly if that attorney doesn't have a track record of winning when it matters.

Look, I love what David Robinson did for the Spurs and I admire the man like few others. But, like it or not, while David Robinson was among the most dominant players in the NBA, the Spurs struggled to win in the playoffs, and David's numbers tended to fall off as the playoff compe ion heated up. I would tend to agree that you can't place all of the blame at David Robinson's feet, but you also can't absolve him of any responsibility for the Spurs failures between 1990 and 1998.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

hey ummm.. didn't marcus bryant leave this board?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

BTW David Robinson was one of the most heated compe ors ive ever seen, especially in the later stages of his career when he was hobbled but continued to give his all

[Tommy Duncan]

My point was that this was not a negative thing. You seem to think it is.

When it came to what happened on the hardwood, it was.

[Whottt]

That's great FWDT...just be sure to aim that same criticism at:

Michael Jordan - Who has never hidden the fact that he loved baseball more than basketball, and took 2 years off in the prime of his career to play baseball. He played basketball because he was good at it...just like David Robinson.

Hakeem Olajuwon - Who repeatedly faked injuries and refused to play when he was unhappy with his contract situation.

Bill Russell - Who said playing basketball was secondary to him to breaking down racial barriers and sterotypes in Boston and the NBA.

Russell's standing response to any Bostonian that asked if he was a pro basketball player was no. Because he wanted to be known as a man first and an athlete second.

And he also said that for him success is a journey, not a destination...which is exactly what Drob said about winning an NBA le. The journey is the most important part.

Shaquille O'Neal - Who elected to get his surgeries done on company time "since he got injured on company time".

Tim Duncan - Who refused to play on an injured knee that he could have played on. Drob shouldn't have played with hernia...he did. He also finished his career playing with a torn meniscus...what was Duncan's injury again?

Should I keep going on?

David Robinson's passion is service...to his community, his god, his country and when he played for the Spurs, the Spurs.

And David was willing to do whatever it took to win...even when it meant giving up credit and being superstar. Obviously winning was all that mattered to Drob on the basketball court...just not in life.

Frankly you guys don't deserve David Robinson having played for your team if you question his character...

FWDT...I am not even going to get into that statistical evaluation you tried to make of Drob's character...Go take a look at Duncan's stats from the Phoenix series in 03...Was it just that his passion was low for that particular series?

[SAmikeyp]

Really? Then I guess he couldn't do all of this?

Pay attention, now.

MVP
Defensive Player of the Year
Rookie of the Year
Rebounding le
Blocked Shots le
Scoring le
A 10-time All-Star
one of the NBA's 50 Greatest Players

oh yeah, and two championships.

[Tommy Duncan]

For the 43,754th time, pointing out that the passion in DRob's life was not basketball is not questioning him as a man, but rather as a basketball player.

[Tommy Duncan]

Again, the point is that he could have done a lot more given his talent.

[SAmikeyp]

I know what you are saying...that is why I was pointing out his basketball accomplishments.

Pay attention.

[Tommy Duncan]

Oh ok.

[Whottt]

RtoD...Some just don't understand the concept of proffesionalism - The commitment to doing something well because it is your job and responsibility..even if it isn't your first love or your passion.

[Whottt]

Uhoh...Tim Duncan's passion is swimming. He plays basketball because his pool broke.

Guess Duncan isn't as good as he could be and is the reason the Spurs don't win a le every year.

A quick statistical evaluation of Duncan's Olympic performance using the FWDT standard clearly shows that team USA lost because Duncan didn't have passion in that series. Hmmm...his comments about never playing FIBA ball again bear this out...

Just imagine how good Duncan would be if he actually wanted play basketball enough to represent Team USA a record 8 times while holding down an NBA career.

[Tommy Duncan]

Oh, I'm quite aware of what it means to be a professional.

That's besides the point. David Robinson played basketball because he was good at it and it paid extremely well, not because he loved it.

[From Way Downtown]

I know I shouldn't do this -- it's like arguing with a wall -- but I feel like I should at least take some of this on. Note, whottt, that my quarrel isn't that David didn't love basketball -- David's diverse interests are among the many things that I genuinely appreciate about the man. But, I'm also unwilling to allow David's remarkable renaissance qualities to be an excuse for his participation in so many Spurs failures on the basketball court between 1990 and 1996.

That's great FWDT...just be sure to aim that same criticism at:

Michael Jordan - Who has never hidden the fact that he loved baseball more than basketball, and took 2 years off in the prime of his career to play baseball. He played basketball because he was good at it...just like David Robinson.

You mean the same Michael Jordan who won 3 NBA les before he took 2 years off -- who reached several other Eastern Conference Finals before that, and who was very clearly the most ferious compe or of his generation? Jordan's outside interests never interfered with his single-minded focus on winning les.

Hakeem Olajuwon - Who repeatedly faked injuries and refused to play when he was unhappy with his contract situation.

The same Hakeem Olajuwon who was Tim Duncan to Ralph Sampson's David Robinson in the original incarnation of the Twin Towers, and whose second-year presence in 1986 pushed the Rockets into the NBA Finals? Do you also mean the same Hakeem Olajuwon who took such issue with David Robinson winning the MVP in 1995 that he basically dismantled Dave for most of the Western Conference Finals? He may have been dissatisfied with the Rockets, but the man brought it at playoff time and carried teams to 3 Finals and 2 les.

Bill Russell - Who said playing basketball was secondary to him to breaking down racial barriers and sterotypes in Boston and the NBA.

Russell's standing response to any Bostonian that asked if he was a pro basketball player was no. Because he wanted to be known as a man first and an athlete second.

And he also said that for him success is a journey, not a destination...which is exactly what Drob said about winning an NBA le. The journey is the most important part.

That's one of the many wonderful things about Bill Russell, and David Robinson is to be lauded for the same reasons. But Bill Russell has 11 rings to his credit to go along with being a man first and an athlete second, and, as with Jordan, nobody ever had any reason to question Russell's devotion to the game.

As for the journey thing -- then why doesn't Karl Malone's lack of ultimate success give him the same pass that you're willing to give to David? After all, Malone has off-court interests too. Hasn't his journey been one of the more perilous in the history of the NBA? Is it just because you don't like Karl Malone?

Shaquille O'Neal - Who elected to get his surgeries done on company time "since he got injured on company time".

Again, it's a matter of compe ive will and finding success. Shaq had won 3 les by the time that incident arose. I quarrel with his decision and it may evidence that Shaq had begun to lose his motivation, but I don't think it diminishes his historical legacy as a compe or.

Tim Duncan - Who refused to play on an injured knee that he could have played on. Drob shouldn't have played with hernia...he did. He also finished his career playing with a torn meniscus...what was Duncan's injury again?

I'll look to find it, but I'm pretty sure I read a story this summer in which Popovich was quoted as saying that Tim couldn't have played on his knee and that any effort to play would have jeopardized his career. And, again, Tim had already established his compe ive nature by that point -- nobody questioned whether Tim could lead his team through a le drive.

David Robinson's passion is service...to his community, his god, his country and when he played for the Spurs, the Spurs.

And David was willing to do whatever it took to win...even when it meant giving up credit and being superstar. Obviously winning was all that mattered to Drob on the basketball court...just not in life.

Frankly you guys don't deserve David Robinson having played for your team if you question his character...

Read my post again -- I never once questioned David Robinson's character. I have reservations about proclaiming him a ferocious compe or, but I'm glad that he played for my team and I'm thankful for all that he ultimately accomplished. But with that said, I'm in the camp that firmly believes that the Spurs of the 90's could have accomplished a great deal more, and might have very well done so had David been a bit more focused on winning basketball games and a little less willing to take things as they came.

FWDT...I am not even going to get into that statistical evaluation you tried to make of Drob's character...Go take a look at Duncan's stats from the Phoenix series in 03...Was it just that his passion was low for that particular series?

I would hope that you would admit that there is a substantial difference between a guy having his scoring numbers down because teams undertake efforts to neutralize him, and a guy being ineffective at playoff time. Duncan was the singular focus of Phoenix during that series, but remarkably, the dude put up a triple-double in the clinching game and lead his team in every significant category (points, rebounds, assists, blocks). While his points scored were down from his regular season numbers (18.7 down from 23.3), his rebounds (16.0, up from 12.9), assists (5.2, up from 3.9) and blocks (3.5, up from 2.9) were up substantially during that series. More importantly, for the entire playoff run, Tim's numbers were across-the-board better in the playoffs then they had been during the 2002-03 season. (24.7 points, 15.4 rebounds, 5.3 assists, and 3.3 blocks).

Compare that to this: in his career, David Robinson's playoff scoring average exceeded his regular season scoring average on 3 occasions. In 1991 (when the Spurs were eliminated 1-3 by Golden State) David increased his scoring by .2 points per game. In 2000 (when Duncan was injured and the Spurs were eliminated 1-3 by Phoenix) David increased his scoring by 5.7 points per game. And in 2001 (when the Spurs beat Minnesota and Dallas, but were swept by the Lakers in the WCF), David increased his scoring by 2.2 points per game. That's 3 occasions. Meanwhile, during the height of his career, David's playoff scoring dipped below his regular season averages in 1994 (-9.8 ppg), 1995 (-2.3 ppg), 1996 (-1.4 ppg), and 1998 (-2.2. ppg).

Compare all of that to Tim Duncan, whose playoff scoring has exceeded his regular season average in 4 different seasons: 1999 (+1.5 ppg), 2001 (+2.2 ppg), 2002 (+2.1 ppg), and 2003 (+1.4 ppg). Tim's two falloff years are barely noticeable as well: 1998 (-0.4 ppg) and 2004 (-0.2 ppg).

I can go on, but I think it would belabor the point.

Look, I've never said it was all David's fault -- it certainly didn't help that Vinny Del Negro and Chuck Person fell apart against Houston in 1995. It didn't help that Rod Strickland and Sean Elliott weren't on the same page in Portland in 1990. It didn't help that Dennis Rodman went nuclear in 1994. But even with all of those truths, the constant for all of those seasons was David, who can't be held blameless, regardless of the wistful appreciation for his journey.

[SAmikeyp]

I believe that David does love basketball....just not as much as his family or his faith.

And contrary to popular opinion...that is not a bad thing.

[Whottt]

First of all with Hakeem...tell me, since Hakeem had so much more passion than David Robinson how come it took him 10 years to win an NBA le? The same abount of years it took David Robinson...especially since Hakeem had his version of David Robinson early in his career?

Tell me, where was Hakeem's passion in his 7 first round exits(to David's 2 first round exits)? In his 0-3 sweep out of the first round...in his failure to make the playoffs in the 91-92 season?

Similarly...where was Jordan's passion the first 6-7 years of his career? Where was it in his 2 sweeps out of the first round?

Where was it the first 3 years of his career when his team failed to even post a winning record?


Where was Shaq's passion the first 7- 8 seasons of his career?

Where was it the 5 times his team was swept out of the playoffs(including 1 first round sweep)? The year his team failed to make the playoffs?

How come Shaq's passion doesn't get questioned when his team was beaten 4-0 by a team that only beat DRob's 4-2...

How come Shaq isn't judged by 1 series against Hakeem like David Robinson is?

How come Shaq is judged by his later success(that came after he got a 2 guard people compare to Jordan) and given credit for being passionate about the game, yet David Robinson is judged for losing with far inferior teams in less embarrasing fashion than any of these guys?

[Whottt]

And most importantly...

I would hope Duncan's numbers are better than his regular season numbers...

You do realize that Duncan has never bettered David Robinson's best in any single regular season category don't you?


And guess what? If Duncan had posted David's regular season numbers, his own post season numbers would look inferior to his regular season numbers as well...

David had no level to kick it up to higher because he brought at his highest level every night...he had too..or his team would lose. 5 IBM Awards say I am right. 5 IBM awards and the fact that Hakeem Passionate Olajuwon only finished ahead of David Robinson in the divisional race 2 times say I am right. Perhaps David Robinson's post season numbers apprear dissappointing because he did not have the luxury of taking it easy in the regular season..or perhaps he didn't allow himself too...inspite of his lack of passion.

5 unbiased, statistically based IBM awards say David Robinson did more to help his team than any other player in the NBA between 1989-1996...

Perhaps that is why if teams focused on stopping him, as teams are wont to do in the post season, his team looked like the lottery team it was...

How come Duncan's unselfishness in the Phoenix series wasn't repeated last season against LA?

How come he didn't just decide to post a triple double then?

Could it be because Duncan's passion for passing out of a double team had taken a vacation to Atlanta, or decided to broadcast games with Marv Albert and Mike Fratello?

I think if you look at the decline of David's post season numbers you will see they begin with the departure of Rod Strickland, the injury of Willie Anderson...and the arrival of Avery "David Robinson made more playoff 3 pointers than I did" Johnson.

Too bad Avery didn't share David's passion to develop a ing 3 point shot to the level of a first grader.

[T Park Num 9]

boy,

and to think.


Whottt thinks Coyote > D Rob


imagine the diatribes hed write for......


Damn forgot, He already has.

[Whottt]

Ahh and what thread would be complete without the voice of dumbass. Pop knobsucker #1.

You can always count on TPark num suck to up the IQ level of a thread.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

That's besides the point. David Robinson played basketball because he was good at it and it paid extremely well, not because he loved it.

Is this Marcus Bryant or Stephen A. Smith??!!




I think David loved the game of basketball more than you give him credit for.

If David was all talent and no desire he never would have made the impact on the game that he did. If he didn't love basketball he would have retired the minute his back starting giving him fits. If Mr. Robinson didn't love basketball he probably wouldn't have gone for 13 and 17 on bum sticks the last game of his career. If basketball was just a passing interest he probably wouldn't spend so much time sitting across from his former teammates cheering them on now that he is retired.

There are a lot of guys with talent who merely go through the motions in order to collect a check. I would never put David in that group. He may not have expressed himself as passionately as a naive "fan" would have liked, but his love for the game is obvious to me. You couldn't play the game as well as he did, at the top level, and not love what you do.

For examples of resumes on players with talent who were only there to collect a paycheck please see:

Olowokandi, Michael
Longley, Luc
Smith, Charles I
Bowie, Sam

[Admiral]

Amazing thread. I must weigh in.

First of all, just because you don't love something the most doesn't mean that you don't love it at all or not enough. To those of you who are married with kids, let's assume that you love your wife with all of your heart. She's #1 to you. As a result, you love your children second. Does it mean that you don't love your kids a whole bunch, simply because you love your wife more? Does it mean that your children don't matter to you? The answer in both cases is obviously no.

It's obvious that DRob wasn't obsessed with basketball. He made that quite clear, but I would argue that he did love it a great deal and have a very strong desire to improve. Maybe it was just me, but I remember feeling really sorry for him when he would talk about his desire to improve his game and his desire to have a great cast of teammates around him. It was important to him to win a le and be seen as a winner, especially since he received so much negative press after the Houston series.

To those of you who followed college basketball when DRob was at the Naval Academy, remember his freshman year? Probably not, because he entered college with a grand total of one year of organized basketball to his resume. ONE YEAR. Just three years later, he was putting up 28 points, 12 boards, 4.5 blocks, and shooting 60% from the floor. Those are amazing numbers. Did he improve that much simply because he was a good athlete? No, he improved due to a ton of hard work during the course of his collegiate career. It didn't come naturally to him - I remember a quote from his coach talking about how hard it was to motivate him - but he eventually learned to love it. From unknown player to college player of the year. How often does that happen? If it happened to anyone else besides DRob, would you assume that they worked their butt off to get to that level? Probably so.

Furthermore, to those of you who have been Spurs fans longer than we've been winning les, remember DRob when he came into the league? He was tall, skinny, athletic, and very raw. His collegiate numbers were questioned because he did not play in a top conference. He had a great rookie year, but his game was not polished. In just a few short seasons, DRob had elevated his game to MVP level. The form on his jumpshot was much improved. He had a scoring le, a rebounding le, a blocked shots le, and a Defensive Player of the Year award to his credit. He made those around him better players. He added 20 pounds of muscle to his frame during this time as well. Tell me, did these things improve because David's compe ion got worse? No. Did these aspects of DRob's game improve because he became a better athlete during those three years? No. Again, these things improved because David got in there and worked his tail off and improved his skills. Such changes are not easy to come by in the NBA. Unfortunately for David, he made it look easy and as a result people tend to discredit his accomplishments.

It always amazes me how people - even Spurs fans - seem to act as if David has genetic gifts that others in the NBA don't have. Yeah, David was tall and quick, but that isn't nearly enough to make you an MVP and two-time champion. To even last in the league, you have to have heart and desire. The fact that some are questioning that desire is simply amazing to me.

You don't have to like his beliefs, or his devotion to his family, or even the fact that basketball did not consume him like it does Jordan. But please, recognize the fact that he worked his tail off for the team, the city, and the fans who adored him, simply because he felt that was his duty and the game meant that much to him.

[KoriEllis]

Great post, Admiral. Welcome back. How was your summer?

[Admiral]

Hi Kori. My summer was great. I am actually living in Washington, DC now and attending Georgetown University medical school. Yes, I'm a HOYA if you can believe that. Oh the irony.

I don't have much time to post but would like to do a better job of being active on the board. I hope everyone here is doing well. Go Spurs!

[KoriEllis]

A girl I went to highschool with went to med school there.

Good luck with everything. Post when you can.