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In other words, a corrupt tyrannical oligarchy which rules with an iron fist beneath a paper thin veneer of democracy.
It's Syria and Iran. Rotten neighbors. What Iraq needs is a tough Home Owners Association.
In other words, a corrupt tyrannical oligarchy which rules with an iron fist beneath a paper thin veneer of democracy.
exactly
Win in Iraq? That is an oxymoron. Like Vietnam, there is no winning there, certainly not by a foreign power. All you have there is a drain of money and human life until the West has the good sense to get the out and the country splits in 3 - the Shiites annexed by Iran, a Suni homeland and a Kurd homeland (probably closely allied with Turkey). Taking Saddam out has destabilised the entire region.
I would believe you Ray, but facts get in the way.
(1) At present we have no subs ute for oil at the scale we are talking about. If half the world's supply disappeared because of the scenario I outlined, govts across the world would be forced to ration fuel just to keep the food supply chain going, forget petrochemical and fertilizer industries.
There is no "instant switch" to a subs ute - that's why your govt keeps saying that you have to reduce your dependence on foreign oil. The US currently uses about 25 million barrels A DAY! There is no instant subs ution of fuel on that scale.
(2) Over 60% of US oil comes from the Gulf. World oil supply is currently at it's maximum - there is no slackness in the supply market. Investment in oil refinery and extraction is underway again, but there will be no appreciable increase in supply for 5-10 years.
(3) What are they dependent on you for? Their food and manufactured products mostly come from Europe and Asia. From you they buy, what, guns? Nah, they get them from Russia.
We are walking a knife edge with Iran. They hold the key to the world economy and they know it - that's why they are so brazen about their nuclear program.
Ignore the dodgy formatting, this is a very interesting read (and it's referenced) about world oil supply and reserves (although I don't agree with the second half of his "comment" at the bottom):
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/energy/energy-b.htm
There are a hundred other sources out there saying much the same thing.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 11-22-2006 at 12:24 AM.
"Kurd homeland (probably closely allied with Turkey)"
umm, probably not. More likely, the Turks would do genocide on the Kurds, theirs, Iran's, Iraq's, if the Turks thought nobody was watching.
Ray:
It's been a long time since the US won any meaningfull le in International basketball.
I know, the NBA Champion is the World Champion
(but we can discuss that one in another thread).
Iran, Iraq, Syria and all you flaming liberal assholes.
If Iran gets nukes more than likely a US city will get nuked via a terrorist act...
Choices
Nuke Iran
or
Wait for them....
Only liberals are challenged by which of those is the right choice.
Honestly watching you guys sit here and suck yourselves off about how you've got it all figured out is sickeningly pathetic.
It really is, and the board is just about unreadable with the liberal inbreeding. Scratch that...it is unreadable, even with boutons on ignore, now that Chump has reached boutons level hysterics.
The decline of differing viewpoints on this forum is not because you guys guys are making logical arguments, it's that you can't have a debate with a hysterical .
It's a war you idiot, it is fascist ideology that has declared war on us you idiots, you cannot appease it, you cannot work out a peaceful solution with it, it is a mindset and hate on at the bio cultural level that you cannot even begin to fathom. And the only solution is to exterminate it(insert stupid and historically ignorant liberal more equivalizing here)
Why don't you dumbasses go try and negotiate peace with a mound of a fireants, them blame W for the fireants being fireants and then just shut the up about politics. It's a more sensible use of your time.
Your heads are so far up your own asses on this it isn't even funny anymore.
What a bunch of stupid s.
Goodbye 08 election. Don't mistake the lack of challenges to your arguments as any kind of indication that you are in the slightest bit right...it's an indication that people are largely sick of your incessant, nonsensical and useless ing whining.
In a war movie you guys are the one in the trench that freaks out...Useless.
Last edited by whottt; 11-24-2006 at 04:43 AM.
I though this was what Liberals were saying about Bush
Sincerely, Islam, Socialism....and so on and so forth.
It's destabilised a ty and opressive power structure that was breeding an apoocalyptic idelogy that threatens all of Western Civilization.All you have there is a drain of money and human life until the West has the good sense to get the out and the country splits in 3 - the Shiites annexed by Iran, a Suni homeland and a Kurd homeland (probably closely allied with Turkey). Taking Saddam out has destabilised the entire region.
Destabilising a turd is a good thing, even if you do get some on your shoes.
Great...we run out of Oil and that shuts up all the global warming zealots...whoever they may be.(1) At present we have no subs ute for oil at the scale we are talking about. If half the world's supply disappeared because of the scenario I outlined, govts across the world would be forced to ration fuel just to keep the food supply chain going, forget petrochemical and fertilizer industries.
There is no "instant switch" to a subs ute - that's why your govt keeps saying that you have to reduce your dependence on foreign oil. The US currently uses about 25 million barrels A DAY! There is no instant subs ution of fuel on that scale.
Me? I'll go buy a bike and either convert my car to run on hydrogen or buy a hyrbrid.
(2) Over 60% of US oil comes from the Gulf. World oil supply is currently at it's maximum - there is no slackness in the supply market. Investment in oil refinery and extraction is underway again, but there will be no appreciable increase in supply for 5-10 years.
What % of US Oil comes from Iraq and Iran?
See...we aren't the ones selling our souls for their oil...every one else is...when we start protecting our oil interests we'll invade Canada.
Threat of cities getting nuked>>>>>World Economy(3) What are they dependent on you for? Their food and manufactured products mostly come from Europe and Asia. From you they buy, what, guns? Nah, they get them from Russia.
We are walking a knife edge with Iran. They hold the key to the world economy and they know it - that's why they are so brazen about their nuclear program.
There are a hundred other sources out there saying much the same thing.
There were hundreds of sources in the 70's saying we were about to enter an ice age...
What I meant is there are lots of Kurds in southen Turkey, so some sort of bloc would form there. My bad, I expressed it incorrectly.
And how's that worked out for you so far?
It's worked out fine for us...and pretty ty for the Islamofascists and Muslim Zealots....and Saddam.
You tell me...who would you rather be, us? Or them?
out and the country splits in 3 - the Shiites annexed by Iran, a Suni homeland and a Kurd homeland (probably closely allied with Turkey). Taking Saddam out has destabilised the entire region.
Sounds like a brilliant plan...so why didn't the old commonwealth think of this in the first place?
Chalk up the current division along with Europe's other great contributions to the 20th century, like nazism, socialism, anti-semitism, fascism, communism, WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Korea, the Cold War, the Soviet Union, the invention and pursuit of nuclear weapons, and the rise of America as the leader of the free world...
Oh and that other brilliant idea of cramming all their hated jews smack dab in the middle east on land primised also to the Palestinians...
Brilliant.
And you wonder why most of us don't want to listen to you guys or give a if you like us...
I know I know, we should make ourselve irrelevant and pretend it's not happening...well you got our libs believing that...but the reality is we don't have that option like most of you do. It's fight or die. We appreciate the support by the way.
I'll bbiab...I am going to go shove some flowers up my ass and negotiate peace with a rabid dog....when I get bit I'll be sure to blame America and W for rabies. [/liberal]
Last edited by whottt; 11-24-2006 at 05:47 AM.
It doesn't have to be that way.
We misunderstand Islam by thinking of it merely as a religion. Like Judaism, Islam is as much a community as it is a faith. Those who once argued that Judaism was a trans-border religion, and therefore could not cons ute a nation, were proven wrong by the foundation of Israel.
Even though terrorists are not on the verge of founding a pan-Muslim state, forget about lebanon, it is this religious nationalist frame of reference that cons utes their fundamental motivation.
Al-Qaeda grew out of a network of Arab fighters who risked their lives fighting in far-away Afghanistan alongside fellow Muslims. They saw the Soviet invasion of that country in the 1980s as an aggression against a trans-border Muslim nation.
Nationalist anger, no matter how unjustified its results, always has root causes. The
international issues feeding Muslim and Arab feelings of injustice are many, but the primary issue is the Israeli occupation of the holy sites of East Jerusalem.
Both the world's Muslims and the international community reject this occupation, and the selective enforcement of U.N. resolutions that has followed on its heels has served as the kindling to Muslim anger.
The White House continues to wage its counter-insurgency campaign against an enemy it fundamentally misinterprets. Its appeals to the world's Muslims, neglectful of all major relevant international issues, inevitably fall on closed minds and closed hearts.
Forcing Muslim nations to abide by the will of the United Nations while simultaneously refusing to enforce resolutions aimed at protecting their own internationally-recognized rights makes a hollow mockery of the whole international order.
Muslims are effectively second-class citizens in today's world. How can we expect Islamic nationalists to lay down their arms when we fail to recognize their rights as equal members of the international community?
The gap between the Muslim world and the rest of the international community is the key to the war on terror and in the battle of hearts and minds, actions carry far more weight than words. Al-Qaeda understands this, it's time that we did as well and just maybe it is time to start talking with them.
Well said, Irish. No there's a man whoknows what he's talking about.
Um, no. It's not about whether you buy a bike or not, and we're not even close to mass-produced hydrogen vehicles (read about the difficulties of building a hydrogen "gas tank"), it's about whether the transport industries that supply everything around you (your food, clothing, household items, electricity, etc.) can run when the world oil supply is cut in half.
About 20% of US, 75% of Japanese and 30% of EU oil comes from Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, The AEI, Qatar, or more than enough to cripple world oil supply and put a shock through the economic system that would lead to civil strife in the developed world and economic disaster for the world's markets. Imagine if there were transport induced food shotages and your supermarkets ran dry - Hurrican Katrina would pale into insignificance.What % of US Oil comes from Iraq and Iran?
And guess what, almost all Gulf oil is shipped out through the Straits of Hormuz. "Oil flows through the Strait of Hormuz account for roughly two-fifths of all world traded oil", through a channel 2 miles wide that can be blocked by sinking a few supertankers, which is the first thing Iran will do if you start bombing them. That's my point, guy. Get your facts straight. Here's a factsheet from your own government:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/pgulf.html
As for global warming, oil is bad but even if it disappears we still face the greater problem of coal-fired electricity, concrete, deforestation, etc.
Even if you do, they only have oil shale, which recovers 1/15th of the energy per unit expended on extraction as oil. And there's only one refinery in the world, already operating at full capacity.See...we aren't the ones selling our souls for their oil...every one else is...when we start protecting our oil interests we'll invade Canada.
No, there was one cover on Time magazine and an unsupported theory. Now we have every major scientific organisation in the world agreeing that this is real and we are causing it, plus the ex-World Bank Cheif economist, the world's risk assessors (the insurance industry), etc etcThere were hundreds of sources in the 70's saying we were about to enter an ice age...
Don't talkabout global warming here, you don't have a fvcking clue what's going on and you haven't been man enough to stand up and argue with me in the multiple climate change threads over the last month, because the evidence hands you your head and you know it.
Anyway, as I said,Iran is an insoluble quandry - they get nukes, they probably give themto terrorists, you bomb them they strangle the world's economy, which might have even worse consequences in terms of civil disorder.
Either carpet neutron bomb the entire Middle East, Indonesia and Muslim Africa, and intern and slaughter every other Muslim on the face of the planet, and get it over with, or start treating each other like civilised human beings and try to build some bridges of prosperity. No half measures either way, and no hope for humanity if we choose the first course.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 11-24-2006 at 06:00 AM.
Now hootie wants to nuke Iran.
He's only happy when he thinks about killing millions of people.
I'd be all for it if I thought it would work. As it is it's a stupid idea from a stupid death lover. I can't believe you haven't become a mercenary yet -- you are so eager to kill muslims we can tell you're frothing at the mouth when you post. At the same time you really haven't tried hard enough to join in the war you so desperately want all the rest of us to fight. Because of that, you are just another chicken hawk getting his real estate license, content to not put his money where his mouth is.
Oh stop trying to save yourself Chump...the muslims don't care, they'll nuke your city too.
Maybe you can go suck their s before they do it...but I'd rather you just shut the up, and go fight and die for a cause you belive in...
Go live in the middle east if life is so great over there. Shut the up and go over there.
Don't sit here and kick the dog you know won't bite you and act like your fear is some kind of deep sensitivity...it's stupidity of the highest order, both of the natural order, and of the sort of threat we face.
But you're not even trying to save me.
Or yourself.
You simply don't believe in the cause that much since you're content to just about it on a message board and not even bother to vote this year.
Stop acting like being a fence rider is an enlightened perspective.
The sane muslims will either make themselves relevant, get the out, or die...and I don't give a wha the fascists one think.
Oh you spend a lot more time ing about it on a message board than I do...where's your great act of bravery? Oh you blame America...wow, what guts.
Shut the up and go over there and die for what you belive in.
After you, killer.
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