And you clearly think the Spurs have not started strong?
I'm not saying there are no issues to be addressed (poor shooting, way too many turnovers, disappearing D), but come on! They are not the worst team in the league by far. It's not time to jump off the cliff yet.
I think Pop's done well to call them out now and I hope this gets fixed, including Pop's penchant for ty rotations and prayers for better shooting. I actually liked many of the lineups on the floor last night - poor execution is what really hurt them.
If your child takes an exam, and every one in the class fails the exam, but your child fails with the highest failing mark are you happy?
It’s not about the record but the performance.
Pop is aware that the record is ok, but he is more concern about his team performance.
All you want is money Shoog.
I cannot believe it
Your analogy is flawed in several different ways. The most obvious being that the Spurs are not failing, unless you also consider Utah, Orlando and Dallas to be failing.
If you are asking would I be happy if my child got really good grades even though he didn't learn and simply made a few lucky guess, you'd be closer to the truth.
And the answer is - it depends.
I am not thrilled with the way the Spurs have played in the last five games. They've not executed well, they've not had anything approaching good, solid defense. They've relied too much on outside jumps that aren't falling and on trying to get fouls instead of playing the game and driving to the basket and being aggressive. They've allowed themselves into holes and been forced to play from behind and they've allowed the leads they've built up to be frittered away. At times, they look sloppy and as if they couldn't be bothered to throw a decent pass or a take a good shot.
But you know what? I have faith that the team can work it out, that they are not going to continue beating a dead horse, that now that they will get some practice time, they will figure out what is not working and fix it. I have faith that the team will use the losses and close games to make it work in future close games.
And for as bad and pathetic as the team is supposedly playing, their record is really good, and yeah, I'll take that over the alternative. They've played some good ball and though they lost three games I don't feel they should have, they've also pulled it out in a few close games and despite their earlier missteps in a game, made it work and won.
Work to do? Yeah. But I'm going to enjoy it, because if I don't, then what the is the point? I don't need an ulcer or high blood pressure because my favorite sports team isn't playing the way I think they should.
Do any players call out LordPop or is that grounds for ouster?
Tim? Probably not since Pop runs everything to him whethers its good or 4 dumb.
GNob? Not after the brain fart.
Tony?
Bruce
Bob Horry?
Fini hope not.
Assistant coaches?
Does P.J. ever tell him to have more consistent ball movement and transition fast breaks. Or is PJ the yes man assistant waiting for an eventual head coaching job?
And you felt that Finley, Barry, and Vaughn did a better job on the offensive side of the ball when they were in? Barry had an 0-fer and made some poor decisions in his time. Vaughn had a couple turnovers, and didn't contribute either way.
Everyone of the Spurs made costly mistakes to get the Kings back into that game, it's just that Beno is a "fall" guy. I'm not saying that his mistakes should go unnoticed, but I consider what Pop did to be an overreaction.
In the end, the Spurs didn't "need" his production last night, but that game was an almost-turnover, turned Bowen 3-pointer away from a loss. And if that'd happened, I would've started a seperate thread. But as it is, I'm just venting my frustration in this one.
Face it, Beno is a solid bench contributor and is a necessary piece if the Spurs want to get to the playoffs and win it all. Yes he makes mistakes, and his errors can be frustrating, but Vaughn simply isn't a better option.
Bottom Line: We need Beno, mistake-prone or not...preferably the second option
Beno's poor play, defensively and executing, in the third is what started the run when the Spurs 17 point lead disappeared to 7.
When you are a bench player, who repeatedly has made mistakes this season, play like that in the 3rd doesn't earn you minutes in the 4th.
You are funny because you always think Pop controls the ball movement. Like he tells the players to stop moving. Last night one of the main reasons he was pissed is because the players stopped moving without the ball.
To me, the big, big, big difference is that Finley, Barry, and Vaughn all were cognizant of the fact that Tim Duncan was on the floor and were willing to work the ball to Tim. That's not some insignificant fact; it's the recognition that this team has to get the ball into Duncan's hands frequently if it is to succeed. The responsibility for doing that lies with the point guards and the perimeter players. When the backup point guard just chooses to overlook the most important player on the team in his decision-making, that's the sort of mistake that Pop should punish; if Beno doesn't choose to get the ball to Timmy when Timmy's open, Beno shouldn't play.
Last night, the offense wasn't great. It was, though, completely stagnant when Beno was on the floor. I've grown tired of watching Beno stand above the 3-point line, pounding the dribble for 5 seconds and getting the team into its offense with 10 or less on the clock. Even then, the Spurs with Beno on the floor have become a 1-pass and chuck it up team. That's not offense. Until Beno is willing to run the offense and initiate things for his teammates, I think Pop is acting perfectly reasonably to not play him.
I'd also dispute that Vaughn "didn't contribute" last night. He didn't have a lot of minutes and he didn't score, but he certainly gave the Spurs a great deal of energy with his hustle. Had Horry made his damned free throws, Vaughn could have quite easily sparked a 4-5 point possession. That's not a guy who isn't contributing.
I'll be honest that I didn't understand the decision to play Finley late in that game, except that it's Pop's way of telling Mike that he still is trusted to play big minutes in a close game, which it seems to me is a way to help Finley through his current slump.
Fair enough. I'm just telling you that I think Pop was entirely justified in sitting Beno again last night. The problem with Beno is that Pop never seems to know what he's going to get from night-to-night. It's not just a matter of scoring inconsistency or specific statistics -- it's the inconsistency in Beno's efforts to initiate the offense; it's the inconsistency in Beno's defensive effort (getting torched by Anthony Johnson?); it's not knowing whether Beno is going to jack up a shot everytime he gets his hands on the ball or whether Beno is going to attempt to get his teammates involved in the offense and work to find them shots.
I don't think Beno is a solid bench contributor -- I think Beno CAN BE a solid bench contributor. His inattention to the small details that win and lose basketball games isn't even understandable any more. I'm not saying that Jacque Vaughn should be the backup point guard; I want to see Beno succeed with the Spurs. But for now, there are certainly nights and times during games that Vaughn becomes a much better choice than Beno. It's on Beno to change that.
IMHO Pop should put himself into the game.
He had played well up to that point, scoring and executing the offense in limited minutes.
What did Barry and Finley do to earn themselves time in the Fourth?
Last edited by AFBlue; 12-03-2006 at 01:57 PM.
Tim Duncan was ignored by just about everyone on that team until the final two minutes of that game when it got close. You're right that the offense didnt' go through TD when Beno was on the floor, but it didn't go through him much more when he wasn't.
Running around on the floor because you've got pent up energy and throwing bullet passes into Tim Duncan doesn't matter if you don't produce results. I know he's a high energy guy and I appreciate that, but I don't think he positively affects the outcome of a game. I suppose you could say he's a safer choice than Beno, but not a better choice in my opinion.
I agree that Beno can be inconsistent, but the Spurs as a whole have not been the model of consistency...take last night's almost-collapse for example. There are more players than Beno being "inconsistent" on a given night, and it just frustrates me for him to bear the brunt of the criticism...by Pop and by fans.
When are people just going to realize beno and finley are doing absolutely nothing helpful for our team?
Did you miss the part where HE ING SUCKED IN THE THIRD QUARTER!?!?!?!?He had played well up to that point, scoring and executing the offense in limited minutes.
GOOD GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beno has stunk, and if Vaughn didn't stink on offense out loud, Beno would have splinters so far up his as, hed sneeze sawdust.
Now you Beno apologists need to get the off Pop's ass, and look at BENO'S poor play for once.
Now Fabbs, and other pop haters, will never acknowledge that, and say that statement is bull .You are funny because you always think Pop controls the ball movement. Like he tells the players to stop moving. Last night one of the main reasons he was pissed is because the players stopped moving without the ball
Fabb's head is so far up his ass he cant see straight.
Spurs seem to be playing LAZY imo. I am also not happy with their play.
Every summer erases all Spurs "corporate knowledge", which is a pretentiously bogus concept if there ever was one.
They always seem to have to start over from scratch.
One new player in the first 7 rotation totally destroys rythm, BB IQ, chemistry of the returning 6 for several early months.
From Championship June 05 to Nov 05, poof, we gotta start all over, no momentum, no nothing. The Pistons LOST in June 05 and came back firing on all 7 Pistons.
Soft? pathetic? The Popovich/Duncan Spurs sure are fragile, dellicate bunch.
boutons
why are you such a miserable ?
Spam
Stfu
Sb.
Fabbs insight is right on. I have wondered the same thing from time to time.
Pop's 4 dumb in the 4th quarter was typical robot offense which depending on "which" players are on the floor kills ball movement, and leads to the ever increasing predictable and boring offense.
THANK YOU!
I agree but the problem is slightly deeper than this. I don't think it is just movement of players without the ball, but the movement of the ball itself. If all the players are doing is running around while Tim or Tony are holding the ball, that movement is useless. I have seen this many many MANY times over the years, and it is Pop's trademark on the offense. I still recall Kobe's remarks (or was Shaq?, I don't remember) back in 2002 when asked about the Spurs "new" motion offense and the movement of Spurs players. He replied, paraphrasing: "that movement is useless, because they move with no purpose just to distract our defense... we have to keep doubling Tim in the fourth and let the other guys beat us". It worked like charm for them.
You need to share the rock while moving. This not only creates high percentage shots, but it is also a thing of beauty.
I think things will get better once Manu recovers from the injury. He sets a different tone on both the offensive and defensive end.
t_pork, why do you ask?
cause you ruin the board with your constant miserable dense posts.
You and Fabbs are making the board unreadable.
True, but it's not like it is always Pop's design NOT to do that. The players have to come through on their end as well. The main thing that the players were talking about last night after the game is how the ball (and the players) stopped moving in the 2nd half. That wasn't Pop's fault. He wasn't calling for one pass only into the post. Even when they call 4 down, it's not supposed to be one pass into Tim and all the other players at a stand still. The movement in the first half was excellent for some stretches. Pop didn't call that off at half time.You need to share the rock while moving. This not only creates high percentage shots, but it is also a thing of beauty.
That all being said, the Spurs scored 100 points. So the main problem last night really wasn't offense as much as it was transition D. The Kings scored 30 points off turnovers. Sure, the Spurs turned the ball over too much, but their D was horrible too. It was just a bad night all around.
I can't judge a lot from these games though. No Manu means that things are extremely different on both ends. The only positive thing that I thought would come out of Manu's absence is that Finley and Beno would get on track shooting-wise. And so far, the only one that has improved is Bowen.Go figure.
history suggests you're being overly-optimistic. the spurs haven't exactly been good at making adjustments. it's worrisome because a lot of the problems from last year have not been corrected. the personnel has improved, but popovich hasn't.
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