After Iraq, then what for the "Insurgents"?

[101A]

btw, the Repug political mucky-mucks figure they will have no chance of winning in 2008 with the US still in Iraq. ie, they will push for withdrawal, not because it's the right thing to do for the US or for the Iraqis, but only because they want more of chance of making domestic partisan gains or winning in 2008.

Sounds about right - again, very sad that your life in Iraq is more affected by American politics than ours in this country.

BTW, since we are talking why things happen regarding the war; I no longer give GWB much credit for us not being hit here in the homeland by another attack since 9/11. It would be bad PR for the bad guys to commit terrorist attacks over here; it would strengthen our resolve OVER THERE. As soon as they've won over there, however, I think we'll get somthing big; start the cycle over again. Sons of es are patient.

[boutons_]

"I think we'll get somthing big"

I think not. The ing FBI/CIA/NSA/FAA were awakened by 9/11 (not, as they should have been, by the WH in the summer of 2001).

They all had great interest in supporting the Exec raping US privacy because they could make the excuse "we couldn't protect America in summer 2001 because we were hog-tied by the law", when in fact they had ALL the tools they needed to stop 9/11, but they are all a bunch constipated, turf-defending, chair-warming, pension-accruing, job-secured bureaucratic keystone cops made to look silly and girly-man by OBL and 19 hijackers with a few $100K.

I think US domestic security against foreign attacks is much better now. Of course, it would have been much more solid if dubya had not wasted $500B in Iraq.

OBL himself has admitted that striking in the USA is extremely difficult. The one chance he got, it was a biggie, and it accomplished his goal of drawing the US into Muslim lands where it would be vulnerable and much more easily attacked. OBL has beat dubya like a drum. Iraq was dubya's gift to OBL and the terrorists.

Not only do the terrorists get to kill US people in Iraq, Iraq then also falls into Muslim hands.

OBL must be praising Allah 10 times/day for dubya's mind-boggling ups.

.

[johnsmith]

Totally unrelated to the subject:

You think Bin Laden is still alive? I don't.

[ChumpDumper]

The people who stirred the pot in Iraq are, for the most part, not Iraqis.

Nah, it's way more complicated than that.

As far as Afghanistan goes, the main problem is the Taliban and their radical allies are free to operate from the lawless areas of Pakistan -- not unlike the Viet Cong in Cambodia. No one has ever been able to control this land effectively and it's too much to expect Mushaharaf to go in and regulate; don't forget the Taliban was pretty much a creation of the Pakistani armed forces and intel service.

[01Snake]

Totally unrelated to the subject:

You think Bin Laden is still alive? I don't.

Yep. I'd say he is dead as well.

[boutons_]

"it's too much to expect Mushaharaf to go in and regulate"

he did a deal a couple months ago with the tribal leaders that effectively allowed the tribal areas to secede from Pakistan.

[xrayzebra]

I think all of you are full of junk food and will soon expel
it in the normal manner. You have already written off
Iraq. Who will you write off next?

Guess we should just surrender and let them come on
over here and tell us how to live our life. Right?

[clambake]

I get it Ray. You want everybody to just assimilate to Bush's way of thinking, and extinguish contemporary thought, because Bush is our savior.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I get it Ray. You want everybody to just assimilate to Bush's way of thinking, and extinguish contemporary thought, because Bush is our savior.

Hey maybe Ray is right..Bush has been dead on so far in regards to Iraq.. from WMDS to the insurgency being in their final throes.. I mean we just need to to trust Bush..

[johnsmith]

I used to think it was impossible for a person to be strictly liberal or strictly conservative. I mean, no one could possibly agree with everything one side says and disagree with everything another side says.

Then I came to Spurstalk.com and was introduced to Ray and Boutons.

[xrayzebra]

I get it Ray. You want everybody to just assimilate to Bush's way of thinking, and extinguish contemporary thought, because Bush is our savior.

No clam, I just want us to keep doing what we
have been doing for all my life. Protect our way
of life. But that is rapidly evaporating because we
have so many people like you that have no concept of
of what is going on in the world. The United
States has done more for the people of this
world than any other country in the history of
mankind. We have liberated and established
democracies in many countries and never,
never kept territories we have conquered.

And contrary to your way of thinking, the people
who put this country on a path to greatness was
people who did assimilate and become one
nation. For all our faults, we had one great
benefit, we worked as one. Which isn't the
case now. As shown by people like you.

[xrayzebra]

I used to think it was impossible for a person to be strictly liberal or strictly conservative. I mean, no one could possibly agree with everything one side says and disagree with everything another side says.

Then I came to Spurstalk.com and was introduced to Ray and Boutons.

Then you haven't read much history.

[johnsmith]

Then you haven't read much history.

Oh dear lord.

Ok, let me rephrase that, in todays day and age I didn't think it was possible.


I have two bachelors by the way, one being in History and the other in Civil Engineering.

Although I'm much younger then you, I promise I've read plenty about history.

[xrayzebra]

Then you didn't pay heed to what was read.

Debate was the the basis for the founding of this
country. But with one thing in mind. The country.

[johnsmith]

Then you didn't pay heed to what was read.

Debate was the the basis for the founding of this
country. But with one thing in mind. The country.

Ray, don't get me wrong here, I don't think there is anything wrong with your point of view because that's what it is, your point of view. In fact, as anyone on here can attest, I lean much further right then I do left. I just didn't think there were people as far right as yourself and as far left as Boutons. You guys are polar opposites, Boutons is "Bizzaro Ray".

It wasn't a shot at you, just an observation.

[xrayzebra]

JS, I take no offense. And I am thick skinned. This
forum, thanks to Kori and LJ, exist to express our views.
And I do. And I hope you do. That is what this country
is all about. I try to keep my language clean and hope
I make sense. Which I know sometimes I don't. But
we all do that on occasion. But I am passionate about
my beliefs. First, I am a Texan and then .....just joking.

[clambake]

We all love this country Ray. But your confused about what that means. Country and Bush are not the same. You should fear Bush for the sake of your country.

[xrayzebra]

^^What makes you think that I think Bush and Country
are the same. I do not agree with Bush on some
things. Like the illegals. Immigrations I have no
problem with. Just get in line. Dammit.

[exstatic]

We started the 'unnecessary" war. Can't put that genie back in a bottle. Is it right to leave now? Isn't that worse?

Nope. There's an expression that hints at this, but doesn't quite cover it: Not throwing good money after bad.

There's just not going to be a good outcome. We can stay and watch it spiral out of control with us in the middle, or we can GTFO and let them kill each other, instead of each other and occasionally our kids.

[101A]

Nope. There's an expression that hints at this, but doesn't quite cover it: Not throwing good money after bad.

There's just not going to be a good outcome. We can stay and watch it spiral out of control with us in the middle, or we can GTFO and let them kill each other, instead of each other and occasionally our kids.

In other words, "THEY reep what WE sow."

How very convenient for us.

[101A]

Not throwing good money after bad.

...from a liberal.

Irony.

You must mean, "Not throwing good money after bad in certain wars I don't agree with," because heaven knows the left in this country is all for doing just that when it comes to any number of ineffective government sponsored social programs.

[boutons_]

"Not throwing good money after bad."

should be: not throwing bad money after bad.

There's nothing good about the human/security/strategic catastrophe the Repugs have created in Iraq.

[boutons_]

"ineffective government-sponsored ... programs."

... such as DHS/FEMA, Iraq, Afghanistan ?

[velik_m]

I think Egypt will be the next on the list after Iraq and Afghanistan.

[boutons_]

All of N. Africa is vulnerable to radical Muslim takeover, including long-time US ally Morocco. All of the regimes are corrupt and undemocratic (America is corrupt and democratic), and people on the bottom see overthrow as a chance for something better. But only Algeria and Libya have the oil/gas $$$ to subsidize the poor, as Iran does.