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^^That...............is what 3002 Americans have given their life for.
A bunch of thugs bloodletting for revenge rather than justice.
Totally, unequivocally true. Just proves how ed the phrase "Iraqi Democracy" really is.
What a ing farce. And it just gets worse.
^^That...............is what 3002 Americans have given their life for.
A bunch of thugs bloodletting for revenge rather than justice.
Ah, yes, the level headed thinking of a rational person. Someone
disagrees with his point of view, well just read the above post.
You are a real piece of work my young friend. Your outlook on life,
and the real world is about as precise as pissing in the wind.
You think protesting will solve all the problems of the world.
You had better start worrying about your future in a United States
filled with pacifist and cowards who have no backbone in upholding
the principles that made this country what is WAS.
Hanging a sorry SOB like Saddam, who killed millions and got himself
hung for so doing is of no consequence. He got his justice, at the
end of a rope. An easier, more humane death than he gave many
who he killed.
LOL, man...it is like clockwork, Boutons spouts off, and X-ray goes on a completely pointless tangent.
I said what I said to Boutons because, as predicted, he screamed, cussed, and all-in-all made a giant ass of himself for someone calling him out. And, surprisingly, he managed to tie it into "dubya- head, Iraq war, etc." He was custom built with 4 automatic responses to any comment and/or statement.
You, on the other hand, rather than being built with 4 precise comments, come fully loaded with a random assortment of nostalgic comments about the good old days, whining about how education ruins people, or how the youth, such as myself, have no idea how the world really works. It is, as with buttons, completly predictable.
I do not believe that attending a protest makes me a productive citizen, or will likely change the world, but do not write it off wholesale either...many people, from Parks to Gandhi, have accomplished a lot with simply non-violently protesting behaviour or politics.
Now...not to argue the merits of Saddam, but did he really kill millions? Where is you backing for this claim? As bloody as the Iraq war has been, and as long as it has drawn out, we haven't managed to do that yet. Don't just make random, whacko comments to attempt to justify your point of view, it doesn't work.
Also, people in a progessive, forward thinking nation, such as the United States, do not do things and say "it is better than what they gave to others." It doesn't work that way. You deem an action to be morally correct based on a set of criteria that stand alone from the actions of the accused. Morality is not based on cir stantial situational comparison. That would be like saying that it is ok to punch a mean old lady because one swift shot is better than she gave you by ing for years, and then cutting you out of her will, compared to the punching of a sweet little old woman. Punching old women is always wrong, and so is taking the right of killing another human being into your hands.
While I wouldnt claim he killed millions, to argue whether he was guilty of genocide isnt up for debate. At all. Ever. Period.
^^ the "millions" number could come from the Iraq/Iran war in the 80s....
Oh, no, I wouldn't argue that he hasn't done that either. The claim of millions was just an example of misguided exaggerations by X-ray where he hopes to make a point without somebody noticing his logical or factual fallacy.
The hang George W. too if totals from both sides of instigated wars count to your total of killed individuals.
Then I misunderstood, my apologies.
Actually I believed Saddam should have been shipped on to the Hague and tried by the World Court like Milosevic was and left to rot in a cell somewhere.
The article is lenghty so I just copied the parts that were applicable to your assumption.
This is just another point of view for you to consider.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/us0406/1.htm
In the standard method of lethal injection used in the United States, the prisoner lies strapped to a gurney, a catheter with an intravenous line attached is inserted into his vein, and three drugs are injected into the line by executioners hidden behind a wall. The first drug is an anesthetic (sodium thiopental), followed by a paralytic agent (pancuronium bromide), and, finally, a drug that causes the heart to stop beating (potassium chloride).
Although supporters of lethal injection believe the prisoner dies painlessly, there is mounting evidence that prisoners may have experienced excruciating pain during their executions. This should not be surprising given that corrections agencies have not taken the steps necessary to ensure a painless execution. They use a sequence of drugs and a method of administration that were created with minimal expertise and little deliberation three decades ago, and that were then adopted unquestioningly by state officials with no medical or scientific background. Little has changed since then. As a result, prisoners in the United States are executed by means that the American Veterinary Medical Association regards as too cruel to use on dogs and cats.
Corrections agencies continue to display a remarkable lack of due diligence with regard to ascertaining the most “humane” way to kill their prisoners. Even when permitted by statute to consider other drug options, they have not revised their choice of lethal drugs, despite new developments in and knowledge about anesthesia and lethal chemical agents. They continue to use medically unsound procedures to administer the drugs. They have not adopted procedures to make sure the prisoner is in fact deeply unconscious from the anesthesia before the paralyzing second and painful third drugs are administered.
Each of the three drugs, in the massive dosages called for in the protocols, is sufficient by itself to cause the death of the prisoner. Within a minute after it enters the prisoner’s veins, potassium chloride will cause cardiac arrest. Without proper anesthesia, however, the drug acts as a fire moving through the veins. Potassium chloride is so painful that the American Veterinary Medical Association prohibits its use for euthanasia unless a veterinarian establishes that the animal being killed has been placed by an anesthetic agent at a deep level of unconsciousness (a “surgical plane of anesthesia” marked by non-responsiveness to noxious stimuli).
Pancuronium bromide is a neuromuscular blocking agent that paralyzes voluntary muscles, including the lungs and diaphragm. It would eventually cause asphyxiation of the prisoner. The drug, however, does not affect consciousness or the experience of pain. If the prisoner is not sufficiently anesthetized before being injected with pancuronium bromide, he will feel himself suffocating but be unable to draw a breath—a torturous experience, as anyone knows who has been trapped underwater for even a few seconds. The pancuronium bromide will conceal any agony an insufficiently anesthetized prisoner experiences because of the potassium chloride. Indeed, the only apparent purpose of the pancuronium bromide is to keep the prisoner still, saving the witnesses and execution team from observing convulsions or other body movements that might occur from the potassium chloride, and saving corrections officials from having to deal with the public relations and legal consequences of a visibly inhumane execution. At least thirty states have banned the use of neuromuscular blocking agents like pancuronium bromide in animal euthanasia because of the danger of undetected, and hence unrelieved, suffering.
Last edited by angel_luv; 01-03-2007 at 06:43 PM.
What if all death row inmates were sent to a prison loaded with HIV infected s?
I see a humane win-win way out of this social pickle.
wow guru.. that is some crazy ...
I think man has changed very little from those days.
If somebody with come up with something similar to the Roman Circus, with lions eating people, beasts fighting each other or gladiators, people would pay big bucks to watch it. , sponsors and TV would jump at that in a second.
Televised executions would have high ratings, IMO.
, simply see how much money UFC makes and how many people love it (including dudes that post here). Two men beating the up of each other. , boxing was not enough, we had to take the gloves away and let those guys use not only their fists but their legs as well.
And what about those videos some years ago about hobos fighting? Didn't they produce instant millionaires of the idiots who came up with the idea?
No T85, we have not changed that much over the last 4000 years.
"Saddam, but did he really kill millions?"
Saddam's invasion of Iran, his biggest crime that the US assisted in and DIDN'T wanted him tried for, resulted in over 1 million deaths.
I don't think I have seen many other Americans (assuming you are one) dislike America so much.
"dislike America"
ing wrong, as usual.
January 6, 2007
Images of Hanging Make Hussein a Martyr to Many
By HASSAN M. FATTAH
BEIRUT, Lebanon, Jan. 5 — In the week since Saddam Hussein was hanged in an execution steeped in sectarian overtones, his public image in the Arab world, formerly that of a convicted dictator, has undergone a resurgence of admiration and awe.
On the streets, in newspapers and over the Internet, Mr. Hussein has emerged as a Sunni Arab hero who stood calm and composed as his Shiite executioners tormented and abused him.
“No one will ever forget the way in which Saddam was executed,” President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt remarked in an interview with the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot published Friday and distributed by the official Egyptian news agency. “They turned him into a martyr.”
In Libya, which canceled celebrations of the feast of Id al-Adha after the execution, a government statement said a statue depicting Mr. Hussein in the gallows would be erected, along with a monument to Omar al-Mukhtar, who resisted the Italian invasion of Libya and was hanged by the Italians in 1931.
In Morocco and the Palestinian territories, demonstrators held aloft photographs of Mr. Hussein and condemned the United States.
Here in Beirut, hundreds of members of the Lebanese Baath Party and Palestinian activists marched Friday in a predominantly Sunni neighborhood behind a symbolic coffin representing that of Mr. Hussein and later offered a funeral prayer. Photographs of Mr. Hussein standing up in court, against a backdrop of the Dome of the Rock shrine in Jerusalem, were pasted on city walls near Palestinian refugee camps, praising “Saddam the martyr.”
“God damn America and its spies,” a banner across one major Beirut thoroughfare read. “Our condolences to the nation for the assassination of Saddam, and victory to the Iraqi resistance.”
By standing up to the United States and its client government in Baghdad and dying with seeming dignity, Mr. Hussein appears to have been virtually cleansed of his past.
“Suddenly we forgot that he was a dictator and that he killed thousands of people,” said Roula Haddad, 33, a Lebanese Christian. “All our hatred for him suddenly turned into sympathy, sympathy with someone who was treated unjustly by an occupation force and its collaborators.”
Just a month ago Mr. Hussein was widely dismissed as a criminal who deserved the death penalty, even if his trial was seen as flawed. Much of the Middle East reacted with a collective shrug when he was found guilty of crimes against humanity in November.
But shortly after his execution last Saturday, a video emerged that showed Shiite guards taunting Mr. Hussein, who responded calmly but firmly to them. From then on, many across the region began looking at him as a martyr.
“The Arab world has been devoid of pride for a long time,” said Ahmad Mazin al-Shugairi, who hosts a television show at the Middle East Broadcasting Center that promotes a moderate version of Islam in Saudi Arabia. “The way Saddam acted in court and just before he was executed, with dignity and no fear, struck a chord with Arabs who are desperate for their own leaders to have pride too.”
Ayman Safadi, editor in chief of the independent Jordanian daily Al Ghad, said, “The last image for many was of Saddam taken out of a hole. That has all changed now.”
At the heart of the sudden reversal of opinion was the symbolism of the hasty execution, now framed as an act of sectarian vengeance shrouded in political theater and overseen by the American occupation.
In much of the predominantly Sunni Arab world, the timing of the execution in the early hours of Id al-Adha, which is among the holiest days of the Muslim year, when violence is forbidden and when even Mr. Hussein himself sometimes released prisoners, was seen as a direct insult to the Sunni world.
The contrast between the official video aired without sound on Iraqi television of Mr. Hussein being taken to the gallows and fitted with a noose around his neck and the unauthorized grainy, chaotic recording of the same scene with sound, depicting Shiite militiamen taunting Mr. Hussein with his hands tied, damning him to and praising the militant Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr, touched a sectarian nerve.
“He stood as strong as a mountain while he was being hanged,” said Ahmed el-Ghamrawi, a former Egyptian ambassador to Iraq. “He died a strong president and lived as a strong president. This is the image people are left with.”
Daoud Kuttab, a Palestinian media critic and director of the online radio station Ammannet.net, said: “If Saddam had media planners, he could not have planned it better than this. Nobody could ever have imagined that Saddam would have gone down with such dignity.”
Writers and commentators have stopped short of eulogizing the dictator but have looked right past his bloody history as they compare Iraq’s present cir stances with Iraq under Mr. Hussein.
In Jordan, long a bastion of support for Mr. Hussein, many are lionizing him, decrying the timing of the execution and the taunts as part of a Sunni-Shiite conflict.
“Was it a coincidence that Israel, Iran and the United States all welcomed Saddam’s execution?” wrote Hamadeh Faraneh, a columnist for the daily Al Rai. “Was it also a coincidence when Saddam said bravely in front of his tormentors, ‘Long live the nation,’ and that Palestine is Arab, then uttered the declaration of faith? His last words expressed his depth and what he died for.”
Another Jordanian journalist, Muhammad Abu Rumman, wrote in Al Ghad on Thursday: “For the vast majority Saddam is a martyr, even if he made mistakes in his first years of rule. He cleansed himself later by confronting the Americans and by rejecting to negotiate with them.”
Even the pro-Saudi news media, normally critical of Mr. Hussein, chimed in with a more sentimental tone.
In the London-based pan-Arab daily Al Hayat, Bilal Khubbaiz, commenting on Iranian and Israeli praise of the execution, wrote, “Saddam, as Iraq’s ruler, was an iron curtain that prevented the Iranian influence from reaching into the Arab world,” as well as “a formidable party in the Arab-Israeli conflict.”
Zuhayr Qusaybati, also writing in Al Hayat, said the Iraqi prime minister, Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, “gave Saddam what he most wanted: he turned him into a martyr in the eyes of many Iraqis, who can now demand revenge.”
“The height of idiocy,” Mr. Qusaybati said, “is for the man who rules Baghdad under American protection not to realize the purpose of rushing the execution, and that the guillotine carries the signature of a Shiite figure as the flames of sectarian division do not spare Shiites or Sunnis in a country grieving for its butchered citizens.”
In Saudi Arabia, poems eulogizing Mr. Hussein have been passed around on cellphones and in e-mail messages.
“Prepare the gun that will avenge Saddam,” a poem published in a Saudi newspaper warned. “The criminal who signed the execution order without valid reason cheated us on our celebration day. How beautiful it will be when the bullet goes through the heart of him who betrayed Arabism.”
Mr. Safadi, the Jordanian editor, said: “In the public’s perception Saddam was terrible, but those people were worse. That final act has really jeopardized the future of Iraq immensely. And we all know this is a blow to the moderate camp in the Arab world.”
Reporting was contributed by Mona el-Naggar from Cairo, Nada Bakri from Beirut, Rasheed Abou al-Samh from Jidda, Saudi Arabia, and Suha Maayeh from Amman.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/06/wo...t/06arabs.html
=========================
Just ing amazing how Iraq has been an unending disaster for the naive Repugs who thought they could transform the M/E and for the USA. Even Sadddam's kangaroo court conviction and death has backfired incredibly worse than a Meirs or Kerik nomination or a Rummy war plan. It would have been better had Saddam escaped to Syria, or shot in the spider hoel, than what we have now.
Yes, the Repugs really have transformed the M/E, according to the law of unintended consequences.
you're doing a heckuva job, dubya
stfu boutons... it is funny as how even non-americans see your hatred for "your" country.
kiss my ass, clanny.
Repugs do not equal USA
Iraq war was doesn't not equal USA
"My country, right or wrong" ?
Heard that 40 years ago, and it's still ignorant, chauvinistic, murderous bullh .
lmfao... but you love everything anti-american. no matter what or who says it, as long as it is against the u.s.a., you are all over it.
you and dan, need to pack your sam's size rolls of foil and move to iran, north korea or some other country like to see just how great we have it here. or you could move to europe and let them take half your pay in taxes and make you wait for 2 years for your annual pap smear.
clandestino, you sound like my kind of guy!
"as long as it is against the u.s.a"
link? nope, you can't provide any.
Your Repugs/conservatives/neo- s have ed up horribly and you're taking it even worse.
You don't even know where to start to defend your side.
Eat my , clanny.
And get you and your family's chicken- asses over to Iraq.
Last edited by boutons_; 01-07-2007 at 10:41 AM.
look at any of your posts... that is all you have do..
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