Amare sucks?

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Moron...

Marion was an all-star in 03.

how right you are. but as i said in a post to someone else... the amount of talent in the league is FAR higher than it was in 2002-2003. now we have added guys like Lebron, Carmello, Wade, Bosh, Dwight Howard, Josh Howard, Manu Ginobili, Chris Paul, etc...

times have changed.

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Dirk and the entire Maverick Organization.

People focus too much on the Nash thing. Sure he's a good player, but he's not a 2-time MVP (maybe 3 times ?). He has a tremendous supporting cast, better than he ever had in Dallas (he had nobody aside from Dirk and a Michael Finley in his late stages of productivity), that's why his numbers are wayy up, even though he's playing the same style of basketball.

Swap Jason Kidd for Steve Nash, and Jason Kidd is a 2-time MVP

i cant agree with that. Nash is just as good of a passer as Kidd, but a FAR better shooter. that is one of the things that makes the Suns so ing lethal, is Steve Nash's shooting ability. Kidd would be good in that system, but not NEAR as good as Nash. the ONLY thing that Kidd does better than Nash is defend, but as great as his defense would be for this team, the offense would probably score about 7-12 less ppg, just because he cant shoot for .

[JMarkJohns]

indeed, but there has been a BIG increase in the talent levels in the league since then. Marion may not even make the all star team this year, even with Nash.

second, remember how ty this team was, before Nash came? they had the worst record in the west. shows that Amare and Marion were NOT capable of carrying this team on their own. they are talented players, but do not know how to lead a team, or be a #1 option.

Which is a big reason why Nash is so important. Yes, perhaps Amare and Marion get their own without him, but the percentages would take a dive and the turnovers would rise.

Nash makes it work.

Though, before the surgery, I do think Amare was capable. I have yet to see such since his return, but there's still potential as he's now smarter and more fundamentally sound.

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Which is a big reason why Nash is so important. Yes, perhaps Amare and Marion get their own without him, but the percentages would take a dive and the turnovers would rise.

Nash makes it work.

Though, before the surgery, I do think Amare was capable. I have yet to see such since his return, but there's still potential as he's now smarter and more fundamentally sound.

agreed. now, there is no question that Marion and Amare are great players. especially Amare. they are freaks of nature, athletically. but Nash is the key to the team's success.

[mFFL03]

Nash didn't do well in Dallas in the final years because Don Nelson tried to run more set plays in the end.

They were trying to funnel through Dirk EVERYTIME, they at that point, determined Dirk was the most clutch and versatile out of the big 3, and wanted to focus through him.

It got waaaaaaaaay too obvious at the end what they were trying to do in a halfcourt game. High screen n Roll with Nash and Dirk. Nash didn't focus on anyone else other than Dirk. Of course the defense picked up on it and killed em.

We still use the high pick n roll, but if its not there we move on with players who arent afraid to make a move to the basket or shoot a jumper. Or better yet......now we swing the ball like 6 times before shooting.

[JMarkJohns]

i cant agree with that. Nash is just as good of a passer as Kidd, but a FAR better shooter. that is one of the things that makes the Suns so ing lethal, is Steve Nash's shooting ability. Kidd would be good in that system, but not NEAR as good as Nash. the ONLY thing that Kidd does better than Nash is defend, but as great as his defense would be for this team, the offense would probably score about 7-12 less ppg, just because he cant shoot for .

Beautiful! Someone who knows how the pic-n-roll works! Many, many props.

Still, this was only half his post. Anyone care to tackle his "Suns have more talent with Nash than Steve had in Dallas" statement? Maybe it all depends on your definition of talent, but if you think players like Raja Bell and Boris Diaw were as talented as the likes of Nick Van Exel, Juwan Howard, Antawn Jamison or Antoine Walker before they teamed up with Nash in Phoenix, than you have a lot to learn about talent vs. potential. Van Exel, Howard, Jamison and Walker were all legit stars before Dallas and three of the four were very good in for the Mavs (NVE: 18 ppg, 6 apg... JuHo: 17 ppg, 7 rpg... Jamison: 15 ppg, 6 rpg off the bench) while the fourth, along with proven centers like Bradley and LaFrentz gave quality production from the frontcourt.

Not counting youngins like Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels and, currently, Barbosa or role players like Delk, Laettner or House/TThomas... This is how you would rank the talent before any played a game with Nash.

Dirk > Amare Stoudemire
Finley > Shawn Marion
Jamison = Joe Johnson
Walker > Quentin Richardson
Van Exel >> Raja Bell
LaFrentz > KThomas
Howard >>> Jones or Diaw

Now, these ranking aren't "with-Nash" rankings, merely pre-Nash rankings. I don't think many thought Diaw would turn into the stud he's become when he was a 5-point, 3-rebound, 1+-assist bench bum.

Even proven stars like Amare, Marion and JJ had SIGNIFICANT bumps up in shooting percentage with Nash. Were talking a minimum of 4 percentage points to as much as 17 percentage point. Going from 44% to 48% from the field minimum to as much as 30% to 47% from range maximum.

Nash means more than just points and rebounds in the statistical column. He improves every largely every player's percentages.

One can just browse basketballreference.com to see how much proven talent Dallas had as compared to the now Nash-led/fed talent of Phoenix.

[RonMexico]

indeed, but there has been a BIG increase in the talent levels in the league since then. Marion may not even make the all star team this year, even with Nash.

second, remember how ty this team was, before Nash came? they had the worst record in the west. shows that Amare and Marion were NOT capable of carrying this team on their own. they are talented players, but do not know how to lead a team, or be a #1 option.

Are you an idiot? They traded away Marbury for nobody and had a coaching change in the middle of the season. Amare also missed 25 games that year. Also, your earlier post was incredibly ignorant. Amare has taken over a few games on his own this year, but it simply was not needed against New York and it was probably a shrewd adjustment by the players and coaches to get Amare easy buckets. What I don't understand is all of you out there wanting all the Suns players to "prove" they can go one-on-one and hit shots while triple-teamed. The goal is to play to their strengths, which is the pick-and-roll and 3 point shooting.

[RonMexico]

Josh Howard is putting in an all-star performance tonight. Oh, wait, nevermind, he must have started believing his own hype and gotten y again.

[RonMexico]

Nominally, the Mavs of old had much better talent. D'Antoni is simply a better coach and Nash is simply a better player than those Dallas years. Those Mavs were like the Lakers team of Malone, Payton, etc. They were so full of talent, but it took TEAM play from Detroit to put them in their place.