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First 8 seasons: 11.8 PPG 5.8 APG <<<< Parker
yes but people think tp should have 12 assist a game now
but nash took 8 seasons to do trhat
tp is scoring more now then nash thew first 8 seasons
nash is way overrated!!!!
First 8 seasons: 11.8 PPG 5.8 APG <<<< Parker
3 seasons with suns: 17.8 PPG 11.2 APG
he was an average player before he joined the run and gun suns. His stats inflated just like Quentin Richardson cause of the system.
First 8 seasons: 11.8 PPG 5.8 APG <<<< Parker
yes but people think tp should have 12 assist a game now
but nash took 8 seasons to do trhat
tp is scoring more now then nash thew first 8 seasons
yes, but right now, Kobe and Lebron are HARDLY like Bird and Magic. Wade already knows how to win, something that even Jordan took a while to learn. and its clear that Kobe and Lebron dont know how to win yet either. and of course, knowing how to win is the most important characteristic to have in sports. Ill take a winner over talent any day.
agreed. however, we arent talking about the past 10 years. we are talking about RIGHT NOW. right now, Wade has an incredible mix of athleticism, talent, etc... and he basically won a ring for Miami singlehandedly by taking over the finals and averaging 40 ppg. for people that know that winning is the most important thing of all, then i dont think there should be any question that right now, Dwayne Wade is the best player in the NBA.
Nash fits in perfectly with the system he plays in out there in Phoenix that really makes him look better than he is. I say he is a top 10 player but nowhere near the conversation of the best player in the NBA. Just look at how good Dallas is since he left there is no doubt they are better now than when he was there. I know Terry is a good player in his own right but take Dirk off that team and they are no longer contenders, yet Nash left and they are even better without him.
what the does Parker have anything to do with what we are talking about? stick to the convo.
dumb post. remember how Damon Stoudemire's career started off? look where he is now. just because Nash took a while to develop doesnt mean Parker will eventually average 20 and 10. different players develop in different ways. again, this has nothing to do with the conversation.
oh, and Nash's presence turned the Suns from having the worst record in the West, to having the best record in the west... in ONE year. STFU
are u nashs butt buddy or what? Im just telling facts, didnt dantoni change the record cause of the new system, and i never said anything bout parker averaging 20 and 10. I just said parkers better then nashs first 8 years. and if nash just DEVELOPED how come this didnt happen in dallas? it had to happen in the suns where everyones stats inflate....
I think Avery getting the job and changing the chemistry of the team vis-a-vis defense had a lot to do with making Dallas #1 in the league. If Nash were still there they would be even better, truly scary.
The problem is Nash has to be in a particular kind of system that minimizes his weaknesses to excel. And despite all that, I think it is still a valid criticism to note he hasn't even sniffed the Finals.
Every other player on that short list (with the possible exception of Dirk), the coach doesn't need to devise a strategy to hide their weaknesses.
ok then. so what does your Parker comparison have anything to do about Nash being good? and how come only Nash is made to look so good? if Nash is so overrated, then why wasnt Stephon Marbury able to do any better? if Nash is so overrated, then why is it that the season before he came, they had basically the same exact core of guys, and had the worst record in the west, yet the year he came, they had the best record in the west? i dont think a new system will instantly change you from a 20 win team to a 60 win team. use your brain you moron.
oh, and personally, i dont even think Nash belongs in the conversation about being the best player in the NBA. i think the argument is mainly among Wade, Lebron, and Kobe, but you can also throw a case in for Dirk and Duncan.
i dont see how Avery has made a system to cover Dirk's weaknesses. Dirk has played, the two main types of basketball. he has played in a system with an all-offense/no-defense mindset, and a system with a ball-control and defensive oriented mindset. he has been very successful at both. he really has improved his defense TREMENDOUSLY. its not All-NBA defense, but when he need to make a play, he will make one. if he needs to give a hard foul to prevent an easy score, he will give one. hes not the soft, "Irk" that we used to know, anymore.
Yeah, I'm pretty much buying at this point that Dirk has evolved his game enough over the last year so that he doesn't have major weaknesses that he team has to cover, and htat he can play in any style of game.
yea. i mean i understand why people still have doubts about Dirk because of his past, but i think that people that really watch him play know that it is simply his past, and nothing more. he is a completely different player as opposed to what he was 3 years ago, and doesnt puss away from contact like he used to, or watch guys just waltz by him for easy alley-oop dunks 10 times a game. hes not afraid to commit a hard foul anymore. i understand why he doesnt get respect from some people, and that is his own fault. but im glad that people are really seeing how much he has developed his game nowadays though.
o? Kobe is. He's got the rings AND the numbers for the HOF.
My point is, Wade isn't there yet. He's a fine young player, but you'll notice where Miami is in the standings with him doing the heavy lifting: 500 ball. He's got a huge hole in his game that he needs to patch before he can be the best in the game.
Tony Parker has more game both on and off the court... so he is the best....
Kobe got rings when SHAQ led the team. but he has proven that he is not capable of leading his team. so far, Kobe has destroyed a dynasty, got his wish of being the undisputed leader, and led his team to a losing record, and then choked in a first round defeat.
Wade came, turned a ty franchise into a playoff team in his first year, led the team to the ECF his second year, and won a ring in his third. so far, the Heat havent started great, however the season isnt over yet. as of RIGHT NOW, I'll take Wade anyday.
No way. No one comes close to Jason Kapono. I heard he did a tomahawk on Shaq when he was only 13.Tony Parker has more game both on and off the court... so he is the best....
While I think Wade will eventually be the best in the game, I don't think he's there yet. If he made his teammates around him better then wouldn't they be better off than a 500 team at this point? It's obvious how important Shaq is to that team even if he's not as good as he once was. Plus, Wade got ripped(in a backhanded way) by his own coach a few weeks back for not stepping up and being the leader of that team so if his own coach doesn't think he's a leader how could anyone else? He also hasn't decided to take defense seriously yet. He takes extreme chances to get his 2-3 steals each game but doesn't play anywhere close to sound defense. All of this is just a lack of maturity at this point which is understandable as he's still young. He'll get there but he's not there yet.
It would probably work if the facts were true.
In his first 8 seasons, Nash averaged 12.5 and 6, yes, it’s not a major difference, but it’s still a difference. And in his 6 seasons at Dallas, he averaged 14.5 and 7.2, not spectacular, but still great numbers.
Second, the facts are misleading, Nash averaged less 10.5, 21.9, 31.8 and 27.4 minutes in his first four seasons - can’t blame him that he plays behind JKidd, in 1.5 of the first 2 seasons in the league. And when he did get consistent playing time and became a regular starter from seasons 5 to 8, he averaged 16.5 and 7.8. In other words, his production went up because he got more time.
Finally, he did see his production increase after moving over to Phoenix and play a different style of game, but the reason the style of play was possible was because of Nash’s abilities.
then who is there? Kobe and Lebron obviously havent led their teams anywhere lately... at least not nearly as far as Wade has led his.
if you are talking about this season alone, Dirk and Nash are the top 2, with Kobe as a distant 3rd. Duncan would probably be 4 or 5, along with Wade and Lebron. But if you really want the best, CP3 should be included as well as KG and Yao.
but CP3, KG, and Yao hasnt won anything, especially lately. true, CP3 hasnt had much time, but that also is a knock on him. its still pretty early to see just how good he really is, and whether he belongs in the conversation of the best player in the NBA. KG obviously has always had ty teams around him, but at the same time, he isnt exactly a clutch player. Yao is a good center, but hasnt yet learned how to be a leader. T-Mac is still the clear-cut leader of the Rockets. i dont think any of those guys can be considered right now.
My best players in the NBA shld be good offensive [/B]&[B]defensive players on the court :
Kobe, Duncan, & KG
Kidd's numbers with the Nets back in '01, '02, and '03 wouldn't get him MVP honors now so I don't see how he matters in this argument. Jason Kidd's offensive efficiency was beyond terrible and would be ridiculed next to Nash. Kidd has great court vision, yeah, but he's never really had a reliable outside game to speak of and it's been his achilles heel his whole career. No way in should a PG (or "the best player on the planet") be shooting anywhere near 40% (or lower) as many seasons as Kidd has. And let's take a look at Kidd's numbers during his supposed MVP candidate year.Nash is not a great rebounding PG a la Kidd, his defense is not even close to being as good as other PG's like Billups, his passing and court vision he obviously has the greatest edge in.
Here's my question: When Jason Kidd was in his prime and leading the New Jersey Nets to back to back finals appearances with a team a lot less talented than the one Nash has, how come Kidd who was doing it on both ends of the floor and rebounding like crazy, never was talked about as "The Best Player on the Planet?" Or how come he never won one MVP? Nash has yet to take his team to the Finals, let alone win a championship. I should think that "the best player on the planet" would be able to do at least that.
Kidd '02 -
14.7 ppg, 9.9 assts, 7.3 rebs, 2 stls
FG% - .391 3P% - .320 FT% .814
Steve Nash (presently)
19.3 ppg, 11.8 assts, 3.3 rebs, .72 steals
FG% - .543 3P% - .490 FT% .882
Give Jason Kidd's "MVP" numbers to Nash today and suggest that Nash is an MVP candidate and watch this place die laughing.
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