ESPN Page 2 - Mavs Just Can't Win My Love

[Guru of Nothing]

This is the media's response every time the Lakers or Bulls don't win a le.

Only the Knicks could kill East Coast bias.

[aaronstampler]

I don't think the Mavs are necessarily boring but they're certainly unlikable. First off, their most dynamic personality and the face of the franchise is still Cuban, not Dirk. Sorry but that's how it is. When I think of the Spurs I think of Timmy, then Manu, then Tony. When I think of the Mavs I think of Cuban, then AJ, then Dirk. Your owner might be a great businessman and generous to his players, but at the end of the day he's still a prick who doesn't treat other players or other owners with respect.

Combine that fact that you have guys on your team who try to artificially create excitement by talking and being dirty (Howard, Terry, Stackhouse) and I'm sorry, but I don't find them particularly compelling or likable.

The Spurs have usually been characterised as boring, but they've got the athletically underdog thing going for them against most teams they play and they have three guys whose games are truly unique in the league. Tony has that signature tear drop and the ability to finish inside better than any small guy except maybe Iverson. No big man in the league can do everything well like Tim (maybe KG but Duncan's a better defender) and he's got that bankshot. And there hasn't been anybody in the league like Manu since maybe Maravich.

I agree with Neel in that Howard's jack of all trades, master of none skills as well as his deference to Dirk late hurts him from a publicity standpoint, just like it hurts Marion for the Suns. And Matrix is way flashier than Howard is.

Also at the end of the day all of the Spurs guys are good role models and humble and they don't do or say anything to embarrass you. Don't kid yourself if you think that doesn't go a long way with the media.

[dirk4mvp]

Did you just compare Manu to Pete?

[Findog]

The Mavs don't compete historically and they don't compete now.

What the does that mean?

But there's no denying that he (Cuban) overshadows the team on the floor.

What?

Josh Howard is a formidable talent, but his skill set, spread out across the pallet like it is, and the fact that he must defer to Dirk in key moments, makes him near invisible.

Ok I stopped reading at this point. He wants to write a critical column about the Mavs just for the sake of writing a critical column about the Mavs. I could give a if other people don't like my team.

[Findog]

I don't think the Mavs are necessarily boring but they're certainly unlikable.

Here's a newsflash: As a Maverick fan, I don't give a if you don't like my team. Isn't it supposed to be that way, given the Spurs-Mavs rivalry? I don't like the Spurs and their patented palms up, tears in the eyes expression every time a ref dares to blow a whistle against them. Eric Neel doesn't even watch the Mavericks play, if we go by his article.

[Findog]

The thing with this article that I hate is him basically calling the Mavs a boring team without an iden y.


Granted, I am by no means a Mavs fan but I refuse to believe this isn't one of the top 5 teams to watch in the NBA.


They can run and gun and slow it down.


If I wasn't such a Spurs homer I'd probably enjoy watching a 7 footer drain three's like there is no tommorow.
l

An intellectually honest Spurs fan! Kudos to you, sir!

BTW: I respect the out of Ginobili and his game. He's ing awesome. I think he's your second-best player. Tony Longoria is highly overrated in my opinion.

[aaronstampler]

Here's a newsflash: As a Maverick fan, I don't give a if you don't like my team. Isn't it supposed to be that way, given the Spurs-Mavs rivalry? I don't like the Spurs and their patented palms up, tears in the eyes expression every time a ref dares to blow a whistle against them. Eric Neel doesn't even watch the Mavericks play, if we go by his article.

I don't think I'd feel any differently about the Mavs if I liked some other team either. I could be a Warriors fan or a Rockets fan or even a Raptors fan (all teams I like) and still feel the same way about the Mavs.

[ponky]

I don't think I'd feel any differently about the Mavs if I liked some other team either. I could be a Warriors fan or a Rockets fan or even a Raptors fan (all teams I like) and still feel the same way about the Mavs.

oh well, it's not like we care

[RonMexico]

Horry is subtely exciting... if you can't see that, then don't play

[ponky]

Horry is subtely exciting... if you can't see that, then don't play

keep that stuff to yourself, this is a family oriented site

[Extra Stout]

If they were the New York Mavs, they would be the most exciting team in the history of sports.

[ShoogarBear]

, if the Spurs played in New York or Boston, they would already be in the Hall of Fame en masse.

[mabber]

Frankly, I don't think that many in the broader sports media are actually watching the Mavericks. I don't say that to blast the Mavericks -- I say it more to recognize that the Mavs as Spurs circle might now be complete.

I heard a comment on Mike and Mike this morning that "the Mavericks play a fun style." That might have been true under Nellie, but now the Mavericks play the same "fun style" that the Spurs have played for years. For years that "fun style" has been described, invariably, as "boring" by the sports media. Unless there's been some monumental change of tack in that media, or unless the label was universally reserved only for the Spurs and was meant less to describe a style than it was to describe a demeanor, the same guys who've called the style boring now think it's "fun." That, or they think the Mavs are still some sort of AJ/Nellie hybrid that runs it out on the offensive end while knuckling down on the defensive end. While the Mavs can run (just as the Spurs have done throughout their stretch of excellence) they statistically play at just about the slowest pace in the league right now -- the Mavs only average 92 possessions per game, placing them 28th in the league (tied, of all things, wit the Spurs). Only the Pistons and Blazers play games with fewer possessions.

The Mavericks' style is a "fun style" if you enjoy great execution, excellent tactical decision-making, solid team defense, and things like that. As a Spurs fan, I happen to enjoy that kind of play and think there's no coincidence in the Mavericks' change of style corresponding with their dominating performances this season.

But I don't get those who've been bashing that precise style for years suddenly finding it to be "fun" -- particularly those who would describe the Mavericks' style as "fun" could do so while, in the same breath: (1) applauding the Suns' style of play; (2) hoping that either Cleveland or Miami will reach the Finals; and (3) expressing a hope that the Pistons not make the Finals. I don't think anyone could do that without being intellectually dishonest (not uncommon among the media) or without having spent any significant time watching the Mavericks.

I certainly applaud the Mavericks. They've proven me wrong. I've openly stated here that I didn't think they'd end up among the elite regular season teams of all-time. They seem destined now to do that. They might not be adored, but they have to be respected. My post isn't intended to be dismissive of the Mavericks. I hope its taken as more respectful than anything else -- after all, there's something wonderful about being boring and winning.

Good post. I agree with this.

[mabber]

The thing with this article that I hate is him basically calling the Mavs a boring team without an iden y.


Granted, I am by no means a Mavs fan but I refuse to believe this isn't one of the top 5 teams to watch in the NBA.


They can run and gun and slow it down.


If I wasn't such a Spurs homer I'd probably enjoy watching a 7 footer drain three's like there is no tommorow.


Granted, they don't alley oop every other basket like the suns, but the thing that most fans associate boring teams with is the lack of a perimeter game/ability to score.


Think about it, the Spurs back in '99 would slow the game down but ALSO go through several offensive lulls. That's what bored the casual fans and that's what also happened with Detroit. You'd have these teams that would often go 6 minutes without an FG and final scores of 77-69.


Dallas hardly has offensive lulls and are so incredibly efficient offensively that I don't know how you could find them boring. Maybe they don't have a trademark style of play but that is most certainly to their advantage.

The Spurs are the best defensive team (yet have several moments where they can't buy a bucket)


The Suns are the best offensive team (yet couldn't stop a wheelchair team from hitting 95 points)

The Mavs are the best/most even of both these teams.


So what I'm saying is I don't agree with the article at all.

I don't find Dirk a guy with "wooden jumpers", I see him as a guy who hits the most impossible shots I've ever seen.

Maybe its because he makes the game looks easy (like TD) that some people may find him boring, but if anything, I see Dallas as the ultimate NBA team as of right now


and yes, Josh Howard was very deserving of an all star and one of the most well rounded players in the league


enjoy the praise mavs fans I don't do it often!



*on a side note, while Ginobili may not be "flashy" by casual fans standards, I refuse to believe that he isn't a fun player to watch with his unorthodox style of play though I could be wrong since I am a Spurs fan after all

Manu is the main reason I like watching the Spur's play. I love his aggressiveness on the offensive end of the court. TP continues to amaze me as well with his ability to get to the hoop when guys are playing off him. Duncan is about as boring as it gets but it's basically because he's been so proficient at what he does for so long that you just don't see anything that you haven't already seen a thousand times.

[RonMexico]

keep that stuff to yourself, this is a family oriented site

Ginobili is the flashiest on the team, btw. No one on the Mavs rivals his flare for the dramatic (flopping, passing, or dunking), so I don't know what you were talking about, ponky.

You are absolutely correct that Marion and Amare have not won without Steve (they've come close, but blown it). Don't forget that Diaw was out for a couple of those games, too. However, I have yet to see Josh Howard and Co. have to pull it off with Dirk out "indefinitely," so I still stand by my opinion of your favorite Mav.

Basically, when I said "I don't feel like I'm missing anything," I should have clarified and said, "everytime I turn the Mavs on League Pass, they end up rallying in the 4th quarter and it makes me want to throw the remote at my TV."

[stretch]

Can't compare this to the lack of "respect" the Spurs received during their le years. NBA style in 99, 03, and 05 was more of a plodding and slower-paced game. That was the first year the Suns started running and trying to change the pace up and they fell in 5 games in the West.

Secondly, Spurs have had some kind of flash with players like Horry and Ginobili creating (at a bare minimum) limited excitement during those years. I appreciate exactly what this guy is saying because I love watching basketball and I love watching the NBA but I don't feel like I'm going to "miss" something if I don't see a Mavs game.

He also implicitly concurs with one of my contentions throughout this year: Josh Howard was only involved in All-Star talk because he is the second best player on the best team in the league. I'm not doubting he's a good player and I think part of what makes him so good is that he flies under the radar (i.e. he has 20 points or 10 boards before you even realize it), but I don't think he would be a "great" player if he were on a different team. Role players win les, though, so that's not such a bad thing.

Not trying to be a hater, just agreeing with parts of this article because I was thinking the same thing the other day (Mavs' race for 70 is "boring"), while also thinking about how angry lots of Mavs fans got at all the attention the Suns received for their 17-game streak. That, and all of you know my feeling about the Mavs...

while i dont agree very much with this post, this has actually been one of the best posts i have ever seen from you, RonMexico. it has valid points that are debatable, and arent just points from haters or homers. the only thing i didnt get was, the Horry part, and him creating. i know that hes actually a pretty exciting player when he hits big-time shots, but hes definitely not a creator. im guessing that is what you meant.

IMO, this Mavs team is similar to the Detroit teams over the past few years, in that they try to play the right way, by playing good defense, taking smart shots, and rebounding effectively. they arent as an exciting of a team as the Suns, Wizards, and Lakers, but they are a solid team that is very well rounded and wins games.

[samikeyp]

There are 29 other teams who would love to have "bored" their way to where the Mavs are. My advice to Mavs fan is to do what we Spurs fans did when this crap happened to the Spurs during the le years...Laugh, and move on. The only thing that matters is on the court and Dallas has done that the best so far.

[RonMexico]

while i dont agree very much with this post, this has actually been one of the best posts i have ever seen from you, RonMexico. it has valid points that are debatable, and arent just points from haters or homers. the only thing i didnt get was, the Horry part, and him creating. i know that hes actually a pretty exciting player when he hits big-time shots, but hes definitely not a creator. im guessing that is what you meant.

IMO, this Mavs team is similar to the Detroit teams over the past few years, in that they try to play the right way, by playing good defense, taking smart shots, and rebounding effectively. they arent as an exciting of a team as the Suns, Wizards, and Lakers, but they are a solid team that is very well rounded and wins games.

This is like my dad finally telling me he's proud of me.

Jokes aside, thank you for seeing my point and not trying to put intent and words in my mouth.

Basically, I'm saying Horry is there for some crazy good moments (2005 Finals - Game 5 destruction) and overall goofiness (all 82 regular season games where he doesn't care) - "creating" was probably the wrong word there, but you saw what I meant.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm still confused at how the mavs are boring. Or comparisons to the pistons/spurs. The pistons/spurs are slug it out/grind it out type of ballclub, but the mavs can score in so many more ways than both those teams combined.


Once again, is anybody actually seeing the degree of difficulty in some of the shots Dirk actually hits? Maybe everyone has gotten used to it because he does it so often but I refuse to believe the Mavs are "boring".


They aren't as fast as the suns and may not have the flash dunkers like kobe, wade, or lebron but I'd rather watch a TEAM that knows wtf they are doing as oppose to one guy who can go off from time to time with the other 4 players on the court watching.

[StylisticS]

Frankly, I don't think that many in the broader sports media are actually watching the Mavericks. I don't say that to blast the Mavericks -- I say it more to recognize that the Mavs as Spurs circle might now be complete.

I heard a comment on Mike and Mike this morning that "the Mavericks play a fun style." That might have been true under Nellie, but now the Mavericks play the same "fun style" that the Spurs have played for years. For years that "fun style" has been described, invariably, as "boring" by the sports media. Unless there's been some monumental change of tack in that media, or unless the label was universally reserved only for the Spurs and was meant less to describe a style than it was to describe a demeanor, the same guys who've called the style boring now think it's "fun." That, or they think the Mavs are still some sort of AJ/Nellie hybrid that runs it out on the offensive end while knuckling down on the defensive end. While the Mavs can run (just as the Spurs have done throughout their stretch of excellence) they statistically play at just about the slowest pace in the league right now -- the Mavs only average 92 possessions per game, placing them 28th in the league (tied, of all things, wit the Spurs). Only the Pistons and Blazers play games with fewer possessions.

The Mavericks' style is a "fun style" if you enjoy great execution, excellent tactical decision-making, solid team defense, and things like that. As a Spurs fan, I happen to enjoy that kind of play and think there's no coincidence in the Mavericks' change of style corresponding with their dominating performances this season.

But I don't get those who've been bashing that precise style for years suddenly finding it to be "fun" -- particularly those who would describe the Mavericks' style as "fun" could do so while, in the same breath: (1) applauding the Suns' style of play; (2) hoping that either Cleveland or Miami will reach the Finals; and (3) expressing a hope that the Pistons not make the Finals. I don't think anyone could do that without being intellectually dishonest (not uncommon among the media) or without having spent any significant time watching the Mavericks.

I certainly applaud the Mavericks. They've proven me wrong. I've openly stated here that I didn't think they'd end up among the elite regular season teams of all-time. They seem destined now to do that. They might not be adored, but they have to be respected. My post isn't intended to be dismissive of the Mavericks. I hope its taken as more respectful than anything else -- after all, there's something wonderful about being boring and winning.

Great post. And I actually liked the Spurs style from the earlier part of this decade. I always wanted the Mavs to emulate it because it won championships. Everybody liked the games when we played the Kings. But that play didn't get us the finals whatsoever.