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BTW, Whott, since you brought up the taxpayer arguement. The money spent on the appeals process is more than what we would have spent on having him in prison for life.
I actuyally agree with Manny in this case. His death would serve his cause, so in this case, throw him in a hole to be forgotten.
BTW, Whott, since you brought up the taxpayer arguement. The money spent on the appeals process is more than what we would have spent on having him in prison for life.
How the can you use this guy as an example of why the death penatly is wrong?
Bad guy to use as an example...and I question your judgement.
What is the point of keeping this guy alive? Why in the should tax dollars be used to support this man? He views a man's life as being worth less than 13 dollars.
You want to make an anti death penatly argument go right ahead...just don't do it while you are posting a case that justifies the death penalty more than any case I have seen in a while.
Pretty good argument for eliminating the appeals process...at least in ironclad cases.
#1 I doubt that I would find myself in a situation that I fathered a baby that was not wanted or I myself couldn't take care of.
#2 I do not advocate abortion. I believe that there are much more sensible means to prevent one's self from having to choose abortion as an option.
#3 I do not expect everyone else, especialy women to follow what I believe in.
#4 I doubt there is one answer for this dilemma and what may work for some may not work for others.
I do not fit in the categories you offer.
CP is not an issue I'm very passionate about... mainly because I have a difficult time defending criminals, particularly ones who have committed crimes that have warranted a death row sentence.
But I have several fundamental problems with the death penalty.
For one thing, it is an irreversable component of a flawed judicial system. Unless we can prove the integrity of a jury's decision 100%, which we can never do, there is always the chance we are executing an innocent person. And to me, that's not worth the deaths of a thousand serial killers.
Furthermore, except in the rarest of cir stances, I don't believe that we should be determining whether someone has the right to live. Regardless of what they've done.
At it's core, the death penalty is simply state-sanctioned vengeance. Is it natural for victims' families to want to see the criminal die? Absolutely. But I don't think emotions should dictate Law. If the criminal is seen as a danger to society, keeping him locked up for life should be sufficient. Killing him only serves to satiate a devastated family (who still will never have the victim back), and a bloodthirsty public that likes to see the bad guy get his Just Desserts. But really, does killing Troy Kunkle, particularly 20 years after the fact, improve society in any way?
There are obvious exceptions... Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden... where I feel CP is justified, but I feel that, particularly in Texas, the Death Penalty is FAR overutilized.
No such thing as an ironclad case.
I'm using this because of his age.
No such thing as an ironclad case.
Spurm, what about cases where the killer confesses?
I'd say that in most cases a confession with witness corroboration pretty much qualifies as an ironclad case.
I say we go back to having prisoners work during their imprisonment and have them re-pave some roads instead of paying guys $40 an hour to wear an orange vest.
Lock him up. If he confesses, it shows that there is potential for remorse, and even better, change.Spurm, what about cases where the killer confesses?
I disagree. The death penalty is not there to appease society, the victim's family, or anyone else for that matter.
It is a punishment for a crime committed. Nothing more, nothing less.
The purpose of punishment should be to reform.
Otherwise, it IS vengeance.
Well, what if says he will kill again? If he enjoys it? Do you believe there are any cases that justify CP?(not of the ones you listed)
Then keep him locked up and away from other prisoners.Well, what if says he will kill again? If he enjoys it?
I think it should be reserved for the genocidal.Do you believe there are any cases that justify CP?
Ok, Spurm. Good points as always.
While I have some serious reservations about the death penalty, it's kind of hard to work up a ton of emotion over someone who opted to kill in a death penalty state.
Again, I disagree.
If someone is sentenced to life without parole, the law has deemed that there is no hope of salvaging this person to where he/she can return to society. Is that nothing more than a prolonged death sentence?
Also, the purpose of punishment is just that, to punish someone for something that they did wrong. I will agree that the punishment should secondarily cause someone to not want to repeat the offense (And as the father of a two year-old, I'm learning that everyday), but the primary drive of punishment is penalty for wrongs committed.
Punishment is vengeance at some level.
Without a doubt it is Marcus.
But to try and paint CP as an emotional revenge response as Spurminator puts itI think is incorrect.Killing him only serves to satiate a devastated family (who still will never have the victim back), and a bloodthirsty public
I don't think so. As long as this person is alive, there is the opportunity to change. He still has an opportunity to have a positive impact on someone, however small.If someone is sentenced to life without parole, the law has deemed that there is no hope of salvaging this person to where he/she can return to society. Is that nothing more than a prolonged death sentence?
With all due respect, isn't this like saying the purpose of shooting a basketball is to shoot a basketball? There has to be a goal in mind... Aren't penalties meant to teach a lesson? What lesson can be taught to someone who is dead? I'd sooner advocate some form of torture as punishment than I would the death penalty.Also, the purpose of punishment is just that, to punish someone for something that they did wrong.
I think we probably have fundamental philosophical differences of opinion on the virtue of "punishment."
No such thing as an ironclad case.
until someone you know or love is murdered in cold blood.....God forbid.
Being a relative or friend of a victim doesn't make you any more able to determine guilt... In fact, the emotional impact probably makes you LESS able.until someone you know or love is murdered in cold blood.....God forbid.
If I saw some one kill my father right in fromt of me and they got out of prison. I would find it very hard not to hunt them down. The old Sunday School question, "Why is there a if God forgives all?"
Vengeance has been included as a reason for the death penalty in more than one high court decision, so it's more or less part of our legal system.
[Waits for MB's gleeful reponse saying he's ignoring me and that my post agreeing with his is crap]
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