Ginobili is overated!!!!

[doldrums]

everybody says how prone to injury heis, yet he is one of the few stars not to miss significant playing time this year

See :

Wade
Redd
shaq
Allen
Yao
McGrady
Jamison
C. Butler
Odom
B. Davis
J. richardson
Oakfor
C. Paul and all of the hornets
Cassell
Gasol
Joe Johnson
Nocioni
Pierce

shall I continue

[vanvannen]

Ming top 5?? give me a break. And yes Manu made a bad decision in the playoffs, big deal. Ming was even in the playoffs last year. I really like Gino, he is probably my favorite player on the team, but I would not say he is a top 5 player in the league. He is flashy and he is inconsistant at times, but he still brings alot to this team and we would not be the same without him. And by no means is he overrated he is worth every penny to us.

According to his english skills and the fact that he put Yao on the list of superstars, I would say the poster is probably from China.

[Manudona]

I don't know if hes a superstar player. he seems too inconsistent, and doesnt have spectacular stats either. typically, superstars don't average 16 ppg, and 4 rpg. and he plays with an incredible PF/C that doesnt require a ton of shots to be effective, while taking a lot of attention from opposing defenses. IMO, if guys like Pierce and Joe Johnson had the luxury of playing with Tim Duncan, they would easily average around 30-35 ppg and probably about 7 or 8 apg. Kobe would probably average 40 ppg with the danger that Duncan gives opposing defenses, because of the fact that he doesnt need shots to be effective.

For the same reason you overlook Ginobili, none of the players you mention would average 30-35 ppg, that is, Tim Duncan. Are you going to ignore him so Pierce, JJ or Kobe can get their stats?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Yeah, I was laughing at that "they would average 35 with Duncan.." statement.

Manu is a top SG at least. He usually hovers below Kobe and Wade in terms of efficiency. Not top 5 or 10 player. But Top 15, 20, is a pretty good spot, knowing a handful of guys ahead of him are the Dirks, Lebrons, Duncans, etc.

[stretch]

For the same reason you overlook Ginobili, none of the players you mention would average 30-35 ppg, that is, Tim Duncan. Are you going to ignore him so Pierce, JJ or Kobe can get their stats?

no, you dont have to ignore Duncan completely for other players to average a good 30-35 ppg. the thing is, they will shoot a very high percentage, because of the attention that Duncan draws, opening up all kinds of easy lanes, and open shots. if anything, it shows how good of a player Tim Duncan is. IMO, if you were to build the greatest 2 player duo in NBA history, my two would be Jordan and Duncan. Jordan would average probably about 35-40 ppg, and Duncan would get around 25-30 because of the attention that each player draws from each other. plus their defense, passing, and b-ball IQ would make them completely unstoppable.

[stretch]

Ugh 30-35ppg for Pierce and Joe? 40ppg? You kidding me? Maybe Kobe could average 28ppg or something with Duncan, but the Spurs are one of the slowest paced teams in the league. And even Tim doesn't play huge minutes. Pop wouldn't overplay Kobe, Pierce or Joe Johnson. If Duncan is getting 35mpg, Kobe would get 36-37mpg on the Spurs team IMO. He wouldn't be scoring at that rate otherwise they would be about as effective as Michael Jordan in his absolute prime, with better assist numbers. If Duncan is that good, then he is easily better than Jordan and Dirk isn't even close to Duncan. No player makes their teamattes into superstars when they are merely all stars.

im not talking about playing on the Spurs. i said playing with Tim Duncan. and yea, maybe they wouldnt quite average that much, since they would definitely be playing less minutes, and be beating the out of opponents so much more easily. but my point is, is that Duncan's presence will take a LOT of heat off of them, and vice versa. there is no way any of those players would average just 16 ppg, like Ginobili. thus how can Ginobili be considered a superstar, like some say? that was the point i was trying to make.

[smeagol]

Ginobili sucks, that's pretty clear.

[Nikos]

im not talking about playing on the Spurs. i said playing with Tim Duncan. and yea, maybe they wouldnt quite average that much, since they would definitely be playing less minutes, and be beating the out of opponents so much more easily. but my point is, is that Duncan's presence will take a LOT of heat off of them, and vice versa. there is no way any of those players would average just 16 ppg, like Ginobili. thus how can Ginobili be considered a superstar, like some say? that was the point i was trying to make.

Still a bad point. Manu scores 16ppg in 27mpg. Not exactly bad numbers. Not saying Joe or Pierce couldn't do better, but its not a fair comparison because they play 40mpg, Manu plays 27mpg. Just because they play for Duncan doesn't mean they would dominate if they replaced Manu. Spurs already win games by 6-8ppg, you really think of Joe Johnson replaced Manu they would be winning at a Chicago Bulls 1995-96 point differential of 10+? Thats basically what your implying when you said they would blow out teams 'much easier' etc...

[bdictjames]

Manu is efficient with his minutes. That's why he's a tough candidate for Sixth Man of the Year. But really, the Sixth Man award is really underrated.

[vanvannen]

When you consider ppg you also have to throw in the mix the style of play the team has. In the Phonix offense Manu would probably average more points than in SA, where the focus is on defense, not scoring. When you also add that Tony is more of a scorer guard, it is pretty obvious the low ppg Manu has.