ESPN Analysts- No le for Mavs

[monosylab1k]

Hey, at least the Mavs have Bill Simmons, right?

Not really. Lately Simmons has been pleasuring himself to pictures of Steve Nash and Boris Diaw and then writing columns about how the Suns have a chance to be one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

[monosylab1k]

Not just Euro, but German, even worse

Which makes me wonder, why haven't I seen any photoshops of Dirk with a Hitler mustache on this site? Or have I just been missing them?

[Testing]

What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been do ented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

[DarrinS]

Not really. Lately Simmons has been pleasuring himself to pictures of Steve Nash and Boris Diaw and then writing columns about how the Suns have a chance to be one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

Suns? One of the greatest teams in history? That makes me wanna

[sandman]

I've never seen a year where the media was so reluctant to name the best player on the best team as the frontrunner for MVP. They're trying their damnedest to find every reason possible to not give it to Dirk.

So it's a "damnedest" reason to consider Nash because the Suns are like 0-and-a-million and play like a lottery team without him?

It's a "damnedest" reason because Kobe goes for 50 points over 4 straight games, but the Lakers only win by an average margin of less than 5 points in those 4 games.

It's a "damnedest" reason because Shaq has taken a sub-.500 team to a 11-3 record and into the 6th seed in the East in the month after DWade went out with an injury?

There are clearly reasons that others are getting mentioned. That does not mean that Dirk is not also a viable candidate, but the definition of MVP is not the best player on the best team, it is the player who has the greatest impact to their team. In fact, even on his own team, I would venture to say that the level of play that the Mavs get from JHo is more indicative of the team's success. Remember all those stats about their gaudy record last year when he scored more than 20 points in a game?

Take Kobe off the Lakers and Nash off the Suns, and both those teams are lottery bound. Take Dirk off of the Mavs and they are still a playoff team. At least if we are to believe everything you tell us about how good Devin, JHo, Jet and even Stack are.

[pussyface]

What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been do ented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

there is nothing wrong with the comments at all.
i just brought them up because i thought they were provocative and good fodder for spurstalkin it up.

[monosylab1k]

So it's a "damnedest" reason to consider Nash because the Suns are like 0-and-a-million and play like a lottery team without him?

So we're giving points to Nash for getting hurt and taking away from Dirk for staying available for his team?

It's a "damnedest" reason because Kobe goes for 50 points over 4 straight games, but the Lakers only win by an average margin of less than 5 points in those 4 games.

as they remain a barely .500 team?

It's a "damnedest" reason because Shaq has taken a sub-.500 team to a 11-3 record and into the 6th seed in the East in the month after DWade went out with an injury?

After being injured and half-assing it for the first 40-50 games of the season? I didn't think MVP's could loaf for half the year.

the definition of MVP is not the best player on the best team, it is the player who has the greatest impact to their team.

Then why didn't Jordan win the MVP in basically every year he was in the league?

[LEONARD]

What's so wrong with what was said? Dirk's inability to come through in the clutch often and enough has been do ented. I may even say that this is the only weakness that I see in the Mavs squad. In fact, their second best player on the team, Josh Howard, also has this problem...he averages only 4 ppg in the fourth quarter this season. Difference from this year and last though is that Dirk doesn't need to come through in the clutch too often. Mavs have plenty of other players who have improved and can prove to come through in the clutch: Devean George, Jason Terry, etc. to counter Dirk.

Dirk's inability to come thru in the clutch is over-stated by haters...

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62650

(I'm not saying that these stats are the be all end all to the discussion, but it supports the fact that Dirk isn't terrible at the end of games)

Ouch...Kobe has a lot of late big shots because he takes a ton...his % isn't that great...

[mardigan]

I dont want to turn this into another Kobe vs the world thread. He shoots 46%, not to shabby at all for the rate he shoots

[mardigan]

Which makes me wonder, why haven't I seen any photoshops of Dirk with a Hitler mustache on this site? Or have I just been missing them?

I dont think I have seen that either, but I would like to see a photoshopped pic of Dirks head on a Baywatch person

[LEONARD]

I dont want to turn this into another Kobe vs the world thread. He shoots 46%, not to shabby at all for the rate he shoots

I was referring to his last shot stat of 18%...

[mardigan]

I was referring to his last shot stat of 18%...

Oh, I didnt even look at that

[Shank]

I thought this was going to be something worth a until I read Bayless' name.

If you want to ask the ESPN analysts, go to the ESPN.com site and read what the real guys think. Bayless and some tool from NY aren't worth a .

[DarrinS]

Just for grins


Lary Bird

FG% .496
3PFG% .376
RPG 10
APG 6.3
PPG 24.3



Dirkmeister

FG% .470
3PFG% .381
RPG 8.6
APG 2.6
PPG 22.3



So, Dirk is a better 3PT shooter, statistically, than Larry Bird, but Bird excelled in virtually every other aspect of the game.


EDIT> Not to mention Bird was a 3 time league MVP and two time finals MVP.

[RonMexico]

Yeah, Dirk's not to Larry's level yet... then again, he doesn't have a McHale and Parrish in there to help him out on some of those assist numbers.

[DarrinS]

Yeah, Dirk's not to Larry's level yet... then again, he doesn't have a McHale and Parrish in there to help him out on some of those assist numbers.

I'd love to see a head-to-head 3PT shooting contest between Bird and Dirk.

Here's the past winners


2006 Houston Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas
2005 Denver Quentin Richardson, Phoenix
2004 Los Angeles Voshon Lenard, Denver
2003 Atlanta Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
2002 Philadelphia Peja Stojakovic, Sacramento
2001 Washington, D.C. Ray Allen, Milwaukee
2000 Oakland Jeff Hornacek, Utah
1999 No compe ion - lockout
1998 New York Jeff Hornacek, Utah
1997 Cleveland Steve Kerr, Chicago
1996 San Antonio Tim Legler, Washington
1995 Phoenix Glen Rice, Miami
1994 Minneapolis Mark Price, Cleveland
1993 Salt Lake City Mark Price, Cleveland
1992 Orlando Craig Hodges, Chicago
1991 Charlotte Craig Hodges, Chicago
1990 Miami Craig Hodges, Chicago
1989 Houston Dale Ellis, Seattle
1988 Chicago Larry Bird, Boston
1987 Seattle Larry Bird, Boston
1986 Dallas Larry Bird, Boston


I forgot about Dale Ellis. He used to play for the Spurs (as well as many other teams).

[ponky]

haha, who cares about espn analysts like bayless? anyway, these are stats from the last three seasons combined concerning clutch shots. i will admit that dirk needs to get his head straight when it comes to FT shooting late in the game but other than that, i have no problems with his game. it's weird that most of the top 4th quarter point leaders have problems with the free throw shooting, probably because they're tired... it's too messy to cut and paste so i'll just link:

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

the comment about josh howard averaging only four points in the fourth is not telling the whole story. the top ten 4th quarter point leaders from the regular season of 05-06 are as follows:

Bryant 9.6 (points in 4th/game) .471 (fg%)
James 8.4 .485
Iverson 8.4 .416
Arenas 7.9 .439
Pierce 7.8 .480
Anthony 7.6 .463
Redd 7.5 .507
Wade 7.2 .527
Brand 6.9 .515
Nowitzki 6.8 .518

[DarrinS]

haha, who cares about espn analysts like bayless? anyway, these are stats from the last three seasons combined concerning clutch shots. i will admit that dirk needs to get his head straight when it comes to FT shooting late in the game but other than that, i have no problems with his game. it's weird that most of the top 4th quarter point leaders have problems with the free throw shooting, probably because they're tired... it's too messy to cut and paste so i'll just link:

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

[SpursDynasty]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end up. It's an honest non-homer opinion.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

[mardigan]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

The whole forum didnt explode, and why does it not surprise me that you side with Skip Bayless?

[monosylab1k]

Haha, funny. One writer DOESN'T worship the Mavs and the whole forum explodes. Awesome.

Count me in...that makes two of us who don't think the Mavs will win the championship despite being 70-12 or whatever they end up. It's an honest non-homer opinion.

The championship goes to Detroit, Miami, or SA.

It's not that he doesn't worship the Mavs. It's that he doesn't worship the Mavs yet fails to provide any semblance of sound reasoning as to why they can't win the le.

Kind of like you.

[ponky]

I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

yeah i noticed these two stats...these have to be for the fourth quarter alone, not including the playoffs (the stats were updated in april) because last season the top ten FTAs leaders for the regular season were:

AI
Kobe
lebron
Pierce
Wade
Arenas
Anthony
Gasol
Carter
Howard
Nowitzki

[mabber]

I found something interesting (and maybe disturbing) on that site

----------------
Leaders in Free Throw attempts:
Billups 12, Pierce 10, Nowitzki 10, Bryant 9

Most unassisted game winning/tying baskets:
Joe Johnson 8, McGrady 7, Pierce 7, Nowitzki 7
----------------

I've been saying all along that Dirk has made plenty of clutch shots (and even clutch free throws). The media only remembers and points out his failures (I understand this though as it's much easier that way and gives them more to write/talk about)

[ponky]

haha, check this out (no, i'm not ing, simmer down)

player games played fta/game fta/total

Amare Stoudemire 70 7.4 518
Dirk Nowitzki 70 7.3 510
Dwyane Wade 46 11.0 506
Tim Duncan 71 7.1 505

[sandman]

So we're giving points to Nash for getting hurt and taking away from Dirk for staying available for his team?

No, we are recognizing the severe limitation of the Suns to succeed as a team when Nash is not playing. How does Dirk not being hurt make him a more viable candidate than Nash who has missed a few games?

as they remain a barely .500 team?

Which proves my point that as great as Kobe is playing as an individual, the overall talent level of what this team is putting on the floor each night is lottery level in a bad way without Kobe.

After being injured and half-assing it for the first 40-50 games of the season? I didn't think MVP's could loaf for half the year.

I did not say that Shaq was a worthy candidate of MVP talks, but you cannot deny the fact that he is carrying this team since the ASG. With Wade out, do you honestly believe that the Heat would go 12-6 without Shaq, even in the Eastern Conference?

Then why didn't Jordan win the MVP in basically every year he was in the league?

The obvious answer is that there is much politics played over the MVP award, but let me also say this:

In the two years that Jordan played baseball, the Bulls won 55 and 47 games respectively and made it to the second round of the playoffs in both years. The Bulls did not go from championship caliber to lottery bound when Jordan retired. Nor do I think that the Mavs would should Dirk be lost for the season due to injury. But you can't say the same thing about the Suns w/out Nash, and that is what makes an MVP. With Nash, the Suns have a legitimate shot at the Finals. Without him, they have a legitimate shot at Greg Oden.