Ludden: Spurs' small unit offers versatility

[picnroll]

And people wonder why I criticize Pop's stubbornness.

If he can't see that small ball is a failure against the Mavs, he's being blinded by his own ego and arrogance. Oh well, looks like the season ends in May again.

Yeah the Spurs got killed by the Mavs in that series. It wasn't like it hinged on a single brain fart by Manu or something. It isn't like it almost worked even with a banged up and less productive Parker and a backup PG who should have been in a nursing home. That Pop sure knows jack. How will the Spurs ever be able to play any small ball when they only have Vaughn to throw at Terry instead of Nick?

[timvp]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.

It's a pretty decent pairing, as long as two bigs are on the court.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

[rocyaice]

Small ball didn't work against the Mavs last post season(I wouldn't say it didn't work. The series came down to a brainfart by Manu) because of personnel and injuries. For limited minutes I don't see any harm in going small against the Mavs especially with Jacque in there instead of Nick or Beno. And last post season defensively small ball is what kept the Mavs from sweeping us IMO. The combination of both Bowen and Finley gave trouble to Dirk. I'd like to see how Elson can contain Dirk though. I think speedwise he can keep up with Dirk and he's long enough to frustrate him. There's no stopping Dirk. He's going to get his. All you can do is hope to not let him go off for 30+ on you.

[rocyaice]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

Maybe he should've just let Dirk have the play rathe than foul him for the and 1?

[picnroll]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.

It's a pretty decent pairing, as long as two bigs are on the court.

I guess that dumb coach got lucky when he made Vaughn his frist priority in the off season.

[ducks]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

I love how manu homers spin that
if tp did that they would have been thousands of trade tp threads

[picnroll]

If it weren't for small ball, it would never have come down to one play. And the only reason Manu was there to contest that shot was because he was playing weakside 'power forward' in Pop's brilliant set.

Couldn't be that, as the Mavs were down three with seconds to go, Pop wanted players out there who could guard the perimeter against the three. Driving to the basket for a two would have been perfect except Manu ed up.

[bdictjames]

Lets just hope 2006-Western semifinal Duncan appears again when we need him.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I just don't understand why all of a sudden Pop goes with small ball against the Mavs. Just as recently as 2004-05, the Spurs would stay big against the Mavs and punish Dallas on the boards. And this was Dallas with the same core of Dirk, JHo, Terry, Harris, Dampier, Stack, etc.

That year in the two games in the SBC Center, the Spurs outrebounded the Mavs a combined 96 to 77. Not surprisingly, the Spurs won both games. And not surprisingly, small ball wasn't part of the equation.

Even last year in the regular season against the Mavs, the Spurs won both games they didn't use small ball at all and lost both games they played small ball. In the loses, they played small ball for 16 minutes in one game and 30 minutes in the other.

How much more plain can it be? If the Spurs play small against the Mavs, they get outrebounded and lose. If the Spurs stay big, they usually win.

WTF

This needs to be emailed to Pop.

Last year's Dallas series was frustrating as a fan of real Spurs basketball.

[T Park]

I think Pop has gone to the Parker and Vaughn backcourt in preparation of the Mavs. The Spurs had no answer to the Terry and Harris backcourt last year ... now perhaps they do.

so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...

[T Park]

Now I re read the article.

Some playoff teams go small.

Ok, so lets say, Phoenix goes small, and the Spurs go small and beat em, like they did the other night.


He said, SOME teams, in the playoffs.

he didn't say "Were gotta get good at small ball because were gonna play it vs Dallas."


How about, letting the games play out first before firing pop.


Christ.

[T Park]

Couldn't be that, as the Mavs were down three with seconds to go, Pop wanted players out there who could guard the perimeter against the three. Driving to the basket for a two would have been perfect except Manu ed up.

shhhh

don't let facts get in the way.

In that timeout he screamed and sceamed NO THREES, GUARD THE PERIMITER.

In that case, let em get the two.

You get the ball, time out, inbound to Manu, get fouled, make the free throws, then guard the perimiter again.

There was only a few seconds left.

[Kori Ellis]

so if he trots that out there with Duncan, Elson, and Ginobili, is everyone gonna have a hissy fit like they are now?


Christ...

Oh I think Bowen will be playing against the Mavs.

[T Park]

More than likely.

I just don't see the part where he says "Weve got to prepare for small ball vs the Mavs."

[Kori Ellis]

More than likely.

I just don't see the part where he says "Weve got to prepare for small ball vs the Mavs."

He doesn't say it in this article but he's said it on the Pop Show before.

[Kori Ellis]

I think Pop is just preparing for the fact that Elson is often in foul trouble and Oberto just isn't fast enough to play that much with Phoenix/Dallas. Also, who knows if Horry will be healthy.

So we'll probably see some Duncan/Bonner front courts, as well as some time with Duncan/Finley or Duncan/Bowen up front with a three guard set. As long as they don't get caught overplaying the small lineups, they should be fine.

[T Park]

Well then wheres the freaking out in those threads, after the audio is posted?

[Kori Ellis]

Well then wheres the freaking out in those threads, after the audio is posted?

Don't know. If you are dying to hear it, you can go to the Ticket site and listen to all the shows for the season. All the shows aren't all online though. I know I've heard him mention more than once this season about playing small vs Dallas and Phoenix. He's been playing small pretty often for the last month or so too - obviously he's prepping for the playoffs. If Elson would have improved a lot, then we probably wouldn't see small ball so much - but he hasn't done much lately besides a big outburst game every once in a while.

The Spurs having the versatility to go big and go small isn't such a bad thing, as long as they don't go small in huge stretches. I just wish our bigs were better.

[Pugglekicker_21]

if we end up with eaither the 3 seed or 2nd seed, I am confidentthe Spurs can handle the Nuggets the same way we handle Phoenix: by slowing down the game and manhandling their people, like Melo and Iverson. Im not sure, but I think Bowen could stop Iverson, but I think Allen would be faster and make it an advantage for Denver. If Bowen gets Melo, who i think is a SF, then he will lock him down, or at least slow him down enough. TP is fast enough for Iverson, but I think whoever would be starting at Sg, either Barry or Manu, would have the responsibility of not having him go off on us.

If we have the three seed and pull the Lakers, I think if we can keep Kobe under 50, we'll win it in 5, maybe six. As for the Nuggets, I'll give it a swep at 70%, a 5 game series in 50%, and a six game series in between 40% and 60%.

We know how to beat the Suns, but I say they take at least one, probaly two games away from us.

then we have the task of beating the almighty Mavs. I think if we draw the Nuggets and then the Suns, we might be a little tired by the time the Western Conference Finals come, and the Mavs could have the advantage of not having to play run and gun teams through the playoffs.

[T Park]

Well lets say elson gets in foul trouble.

Do you feel comfortable with Oberto on Nowitzki?


If Horry is healthy ENOUGH, sure you put him on him.


But if Elson gets dumb fouls, then going big isn't an option.

[Extra Stout]

If Elson stays in foul trouble, then the Spurs otherwise do not have the personnel to match up with Dallas (their bigs are too slow and small ball gets killed on the glass), and they will lose. Small ball, I guess, is a last-ditch attempt to try to outscore the Mavs, since either way defensively they are screwed.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

The Spurs, in the words of coach Gregg Popovich, are "fairly committed to trying to stay big" this season.

That is very, very bad news...



for the Suns and Mavericks

[anonymous coward]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b...s.36e0f2d.html

Spurs' small unit offers versatility

Web Posted: 04/06/2007 11:00 PM CDT

Johnny Ludden
Express-News

Bruce Bowen stands 6-foot-7 and allegedly weighs as much as 200 pounds, which, of course, may qualify him as a hulking power forward when the Spurs play host to the Golden State Warriors tonight.
Warriors coach and small-ball pioneer Don Nelson has no qualms about subs uting speed for size, and, of late, that's meant starting 6-9 Al Harrington — who is considered undersized as a power forward — at center.

"That's Nellie," said Spurs guard Michael Finley, who played under Nelson for eight seasons in Dallas. "For them, that lineup has been successful. He's the kind of coach that's going to stick with it and more or less have teams prepare for him than him have to prepare for them.

"That's been his philosophy for years now."

The Spurs, in the words of coach Gregg Popovich, are "fairly committed to trying to stay big" this season. That was evidenced Thursday when Popovich often kept either Francisco Elson or Fabricio Oberto on the floor next to Tim Duncan in the team's 92-85 victory over Phoenix.

But in the past few weeks the Spurs also have successfully employed their own small lineup, using it on those nights when Elson encounters foul trouble, the team needs an extra shooter to erase a deficit, or — as might be the case tonight — the matchups simply make it too difficult to stay big.

"The small lineup is out there to make shots," Popovich said. "They have to make shots. We have good ball movement and more people on the court who can score with that group.

"We have to get good at it. At some point come playoff time teams go small more."

The Spurs used their small lineup to rally past Portland last month, then did the same thing against New Orleans on March 28. Andris Biedrins, who stands 6-11, started at center when the Warriors played the Spurs on March 25, but the Spurs still played small for stretches of their 126-89 victory.

"On those nights when we do go small and we're scoring 120 points it kind of reminds us we are capable of putting points on the board when we need to," Brent Barry said. "It's still about stopping teams, but we can score and get down the court when we let our guys loose a little bit."

Said Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, "I know when they went small with us two years ago (in the conference finals) in Phoenix they killed us with it."

The Spurs experimented with their small lineup during training camp, something they didn't do last season, to get the players familiar with it. When the Spurs do go small, Finley or Bowen usually moves to power forward. Popovich also has sometimes paired Jacque Vaughn in the backcourt with Tony Parker.

"We're still an old-fashioned team as far as starting your regular lineup and making them adjust to you," Bowen said. "But when you have guys like Fin and myself (who can defend) multiple positions, you can do other things on the defensive end, like fronting someone.

"With us going small, it gives us more athleticism and we're quicker, so if we do double-team we can scramble."

Popovich doesn't think the Spurs give up much defensively by playing small, but "against some teams rebounding-wise we have to be a little bit more cautious."

"There were times last year when the small lineup got us," Popovich said, "and (Dallas' Dirk) Nowitzki got some boards."

As a result, the Spurs prioritized finding an athletic center in the offseason. Elson's length and quickness have improved the team's defense. But he also is sometimes prone to foul trouble, which can limit his minutes.

Nelson even started Harrington against 7-6 center Yao Ming on Wednesday in Golden State's victory in Houston. Harrington fronted Yao and the Warriors gave him help. Afterward, Yao admitted to being frustrated.

The Spurs hope Duncan can avoid the same problems.

"This year we're trying to play big against small teams a little bit more than last year," Manu Ginobili said. "It depends on what Pop sees, what he wants. But I think we are comfortable with both."


Notebook: Ginobili said his back was more sore than his left shoulder after he hit the court hard following a drive to the basket Thursday night. He received treatment at practice Friday, but expects to play tonight. "My back is a little tight," Ginobili said. "I was trying to loosen it up with the trainer, but no big deal. I'm all bone. The bones hit the floor pretty hard." ... Popovich said Barry had another MRI, which showed his back is improving. Barry is still expected to miss another game or two.

more pop's small balls in playoffs???

forget the championship, even the western conference finals spurs fans

sorry manu

[Clutch20]

Curious, for you more knowledgeable BB fans. How come Spurs hardly employ zone defense?

I noticed how Miami used the 2-3 Zone in the Finals.
I saw Pop change it up once a couple months ago and had the Spurs trying out their zone against, whoever. I forget but I noticed it was out of the ordinary. (I may be mistaken on this query however.)

I agree with Ammuseddaysleeper, I heard Pop say that he would prefer not to use zones cause he didn't like them, but they do work sometimes and I remember a couple of years back he did use a zone for a few minutes against some team during reg. season but it was gone, never to be seen again.