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Difficult or impossible?
Some time ago, a scientist published his explanation of how Jesus walked on water (he claimed he was walking on ice, or something).
Unbelievers will always try to explain miracles away, no matter how stupid they look (the scientists, not the miracles).
It is very difficult to prove God trough His miracles. Sceptics will always be sceptics. I know them pretty well. My dad is the biggest sceptic I know.
Difficult or impossible?
"Jesus said to [Thomas], 'Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.'”
-- Gospel of John 20:19-29
It's not the miracles recorded in scripture that have convinced me Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah who died for my sins, was ressurrected and now sits at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty.
Nope, I was a skeptic as well. Until I started reading the extra-biblical and non-canonical writings of the period such as those by Josephus (a non-Jewish and non-Christian historian of Jesus' period) that recorded the fates of some of Christ's followers.
The disciples were, until Pentecost, a bunch of rag-tag, cowering, ne'er-do-wells, who had trouble believing themselves. Just look at "Doubting" Thomas. But, after Pentecost, almost to a man, they were willing to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ even though -- many times -- it resulted in their horrible deaths. Peter -- the man who denied he even knew Jesus on the night he was captured and tried -- was crucified just like Christ. Yet, he requested they hang him upside down because he wasn't worthy to die in the manner.
No, something turned these men around after Christ's crucifixion. the only thing that explains it -- in my mind -- is that they witnessed the resurrected Jesus in that upper room 2,000 years ago.
Otherwise, you'd have to believe these men, cowards just a few days before, decided to band together and die for a lie.
Why does anyone have to look back to believe in God's existence?
If God Created Everything, Who Created God?
by Rich Deem
Introduction
Who created God? It is an age-old question that has plagued all those who like to think about the big questions. Having grown up as an agnostic non-Christian, it provided me with a potential reason why there might not be any god. Various religions tend to solve the problem in different ways. The LDS church (Mormonism) says that the God to whom we are accountable (Elohim) had a father god, then grew up on a planet as a man, and progressed to become a god himself. Many other religions have claimed that gods beget other gods. Of course the problem with this idea is who is the first god and how did he get here?
Christianity's answer
Christianity answers the question of who created God in the very first verse of the very first book, Genesis:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)
This verse tells us that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Many other verses from the New Testament tells us that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time (2 Timothy 1:9)
The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time ( us 1:2)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
God exists in timeless eternity
How does this get around the problem of God's creation? There are two possible interpretations of these verses. One is that God exists outside of time. Since we live in a universe of cause and effect, we naturally assume that this is the only way in which any kind of existence can function. However, the premise is false. Without the dimension of time, there is no cause and effect, and all things that could exist in such a realm would have no need of being caused, but would have existed from eternity. Therefore, God created the time dimension of our universe specifically for a reason - so that cause and effect would exist for us.
God exists in multiple dimension of time
The second interpretation is that God exists in more than one dimension of time. Things that exist in one dimension of time are restricted to time's arrow and are confined to cause and effect. However, two dimension of time form a plane of time, which has no beginning and no single direction. A being that exists in at least two dimension of time can travel anywhere in time and never had a beginning, since a plane of time has no starting point. Either interpretation leads one to the conclusion that God has no need of having been created.
Why can't the universe be eternal?
The idea that God can be eternal leads us to the idea that maybe the universe is eternal, and, therefore, God doesn't need to exist at all. Actually, this was the prevalent belief of atheists before the observational data of the 20th century strongly refuted the idea that the universe was eternal. This fact presented a big dilemma for atheists, since a non-eternal universe implied that it must have been caused. Maybe Genesis 1:1 was correct! Not to be dismayed by the facts, atheists have invented some metaphysical "science" to attempt to explain away the existence of God. Hence, most atheistic cosmologists believe that we see only the visible part of a much larger "multiverse" that randomly spews out universes with different physical parameters. Since there is no evidence supporting this idea (nor can there be, according to the laws of the universe), it is really just a subs ute "god" for atheists. And, since this "god" is non-intelligent by definition, it requires a complex hypothesis, which would be ruled out if we use Occam's razor, which states that one should use the simplest logical explanation for any phenomenon. Purposeful intelligent design of the universe makes much more sense, especially based upon what we know about the design of the universe.
Conclusion
God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of a plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist only ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).
Thanks for clearing that up. This certainly removes all doubt.
GOD cannot be defined by our logic.
The above article simply suggests other viewpoints about GOD's origin (or lack thereof) that many fail to consider.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 04-26-2007 at 05:42 PM.
Then, where is the logic to all the preaching?
I think that god is different for many people. One of my philosophy teachers at school stated that he used to believe that it was just one god and one form, but now he believes that it's one god and many forms.
He was a minister and grew up in a very conservative church, but I think that if god does exist, he is not jesus christ, he is not mohammad, he is not Moishe...I think these people saw the light...as did the Buddha. I never believe and the more I read scripture of The Bible, and the more I read the Koran, it leads me even further away from god and religion.
But I think if he does exist...then he is like Hinduism...in that Brahman is everything. Looking at a tree is looking at Brahman...looking at the ground is looking at Brahman.
'defined' was the operative word - not 'logic'.
As in we can't fathom the completeness, perfection and massiveness of GOD. His nature is not bound by the confines of our logic.
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