Question about Manu Ginobili

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Kobe>Manu

Only on backdoor plays.

[tekdragon]

LakerGod:

I agree that you have been unfairly censored at this site. The administrators of this forum have repeatedly deleted your excellent basketball analysis, edited well thought-out and objective posts, and generally have stifled your ability to express yourself. It's really a travesty how this place treats you.

I have an idea: in protest, maybe you should never post on this forum again. That'll show 'em. Show those Nazi's that you won't stand for this kind of oppression!

Stand up for yourself, man! Fight the Power! Don't let The Man hold you down! Protest!

This place would go into mourning if you stopped posting...try it, it'll work! You have my complete support!

[tekdragon]

AHF with the Post of the Day...

[Medvedenko]

Yeah I guess playing bad means almost averaging 28 points 7 rebounds and 6 assists bad numbers. It's funny that he is struggling..but those are pretty good numbers..considering he's playing like ASS

[Nikos]

Yeah I guess playing bad means almost averaging 28 points 7 rebounds and 6 assists bad numbers. It's funny that he is struggling..but those are pretty good numbers..considering he's playing like ASS

If you had any concept of EFFICIENCY, you would see that Kobe's stats are actually NOTICABLY worse than Wade's, Nowitski's, Ray Allen's and a few other players who Kobe is supposedly clearly better than.

Kobe is shooting horribly and scoring in efficiently relative to past years and that is a FACT. He is getting an inefficient 28-7-6 when other plays like Lebron and Wade are putting up same numbers MORE efficiently. That was my whole point. Not that Kobe is playing bad -- but relative to how he SHOULD be playing based on his pedigree of being the next Jordan etc... he IS playing poorly.

[Marcus Bryant]

This ignore feature is freaking great! Time to add Buddy Holly now!

base has discovered the joy that is the forum mute button.

[Rummpd]

Manu is the best player from his Gold Medal country that is enough in my book and a class act and a heck of a player.

Kobe cannot claim that (can make a case for top 5 USA)!

MadDoc

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Player G EFF
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 9 35.00
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 11 28.64
2. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 11 28.64
4. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 27.90
5. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 11 27.64
6. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 9 27.22
7. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 11 25.45
8. Ron Artest (Indiana Pacers) 7 25.14
9. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 8 24.75
10. Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz) 11 24.64
11. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 24.45
12. Zach Randolph (Portland Trail Blazers) 9 23.78
13. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 11 23.64
14. Chris Webber (Sacramento Kings) 10 23.60
15. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 7 23.29
16. Andrei Kirilenko (Utah Jazz) 11 23.00
17. Ray Allen (Seattle SuperSonics) 11 22.91
18. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 6 22.83
19. Jermaine O'Neal (Indiana Pacers) 8 22.13
20. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 10 21.90
21. Grant Hill (Orlando Magic) 9 21.89
22. Antawn Jamison (Washington Wizards) 9 21.44
23. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 11 21.36
24. Michael Redd (Milwaukee Bucks) 8 21.13
25. Pau Gasol (Memphis Grizzlies) 9 21.11
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 21.10
27. Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 20.82
28. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 9 20.67
28. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 9 20.67
30. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 20.10
31. Keith Van Horn (Milwaukee Bucks) 8 19.75
32. Kenyon Martin (Denver Nuggets) 10 19.50
33. Manu Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 11 19.45

Not much of a gap in efficiency, despite the fact Kobe plays about 15 minutes more per game than Manu, is the focal point of his offense, and is scoring 28 a game, don't you think?

[Rummpd]

Interesting list and thank you for providing it. Well I guess #8 on the above list is going to be in a stagnant position for awhile and who would have ever thought that Kobe, the invincible LakerGod" would not be number 1?

MadDoc

[Medvedenko]

He will never be #1 in that list...so, I guess Shaq isn't as good as everyone above him either....that list is bogus. However, I guess you would take KVH before Manu...
Kobe is in a slump and is injured (re hasn't practiced in the last 4 available times) and still putting up solid numbers that will earn him an all-star nod. Is he playing at the MVP level, no he isn't. You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

[GerM]

You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

You can´t be sure of that, because he never tried in the nba... And last time he played that way, was in the olympics and.... mvp.

[ALVAREZ6]

laker dude, your a re , manu played 4 games in 5 nights...kobe is a y b*tCH!

why are you even posting here, we all hate you and ur scrubby lakers.

[ALVAREZ6]

Ok, let's proclaim Manu the best player on the planet and he should be an all-star this season

that's a true statement LakerGod

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

that list is bogus. However, I guess you would take KVH before Manu...
Kobe is in a slump and is injured

It's a complex statistical analysis, I guess that's over the head of nitwit Laker bandwagoners who never got higher than basic algebra in high school.

Manu is also injured, playing through it, but you don't see us on here making excuses left and right, and despite his injuries his team is still doing a lot better than Kobe's.

You give Manu the same amount of touches as you give kobe and run the offence through him, you'll see his scoring go up but his effeciency go down.

I disagree vehemently with this assessment. You give Manu the same amount of touches as Kobe and his scoring and assists would both be up.

We already saw what Manu could do being the focal point in the Olympics - beat an NBA All-Star team and won a gold medal in the process.

Next.

[ALVAREZ6]

Very well spoken Aggie Hoopsfan

[ALVAREZ6]

Johnny Blaze, wonderful story line for LakerGod's movie , by the way lol, i love it.

manu can be just as good as kobe, but kobe hogs it way more, shoots more, plays more minutes... and he did have shaq on his team for most of his career...the Lakers got raped by detroit in the finals and hats what counts, not you individually, but how your TEAM finishes.

And on top of that, manu is just an all around better person, he's nice, he appreciates fans, and he appreciates little girls' sexual rights( **cough cough ** Kobe) Manu never raped a helpless teenager, did he?

[Kori Ellis]

Manu would never be as good as Kobe. You can't just extropolate stats over minutes and take into account touches and say that he would be as good as Kobe. There's a reason players play the amount of minutes they play and get the touches they get.

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.

[Manu20]

laker dude, your a re , manu played 4 games in 5 nights...kobe is a y b*tCH!

why are you even posting here, we all hate you and ur scrubby lakers.

Well said ALVAREZ6

[Phenomanul]

I know Kori already said one can't make extrapolations of numbers/minutes (and I agree).... having said that however have a look at this:

2004-05 Regular Season Efficiency Rating Per 48 Minutes

Efficiency Formula: ((PTS + REB + AST + STL + BLK) - ((FGA - FGM) + (FTA - FTM) + TO)) / G
Player G EFF48
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 9 42.35
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks) 11 37.80
3. Amare Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns) 11 37.71
4. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs) 11 36.48
5. Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat) 9 34.59
6. Pau Gasol (Memphis Grizzlies) 9 33.78
7. Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz) 11 32.77
8. Raef LaFrentz (Boston Celtics) 8 32.32
9. Chris Webber (Sacramento Kings) 10 32.27
10. Jermaine O'Neal (Indiana Pacers) 8 32.06
11. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 31.96
12. Drew Gooden (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 31.63
13. Steve Nash (Phoenix Suns) 11 31.59
14. Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns) 11 31.55
15. Shaquille O'Neal (Miami Heat) 11 30.74
16. Manu Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 11 30.66
17. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 8 30.46
18. Andrei Kirilenko (Utah Jazz) 11 30.13
19. Al Jefferson (Boston Celtics) 8 30.12
20. Grant Hill (Orlando Magic) 9 29.37
21. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 7 29.30
21. Stromile Swift (Memphis Grizzlies) 11 29.30
23. Zach Randolph (Portland Trail Blazers) 9 29.10
24. Yao Ming (Houston Rockets) 12 29.06
25. Ron Artest (Indiana Pacers) 7 29.03
26. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cleveland Cavaliers) 10 28.69
27. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 10 28.49
28. Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 27.77
29. Ben Wallace (Detroit Pistons) 6 27.63
30. Ray Allen (Seattle SuperSonics) 11 27.62
31. Larry Hughes (Washington Wizards) 8 27.35
32. Juan Dixon (Washington Wizards) 9 26.95
33. Lamar Odom (Los Angeles Lakers) 11 26.91
34. Matt Bonner (Toronto Raptors) 11 26.88
35. Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 26.55
36. Kenyon Martin (Denver Nuggets) 10 26.52
37. Rafer Alston (Toronto Raptors) 11 26.16
38. Michael Sweetney (New York Knicks) 9 26.06
39. Josh Childress (Atlanta Hawks) 8 25.82
40. Dikembe Mutombo (Houston Rockets) 11 25.54
41. Gordan Giricek (Utah Jazz) 11 25.46
42. Chris Mihm (Los Angeles Lakers) 10 25.38
43. Stephon Marbury (New York Knicks) 9 25.29
44. Mehmet Okur (Utah Jazz) 11 25.26
45. Bobby Simmons (Los Angeles Clippers) 11 25.22
46. Steve Francis (Orlando Magic) 9 25.15
47. Antawn Jamison (Washington Wizards) 9 25.11
48. Kurt Thomas (New York Knicks) 9 25.09
49. Earl Boykins (Denver Nuggets) 10 25.05
50. Mike Miller (Memphis Grizzlies) 11 24.99

[jalbre6]

The question here isn't if Kobe is a better patriot, humanitarian, NBA spokesman, or husband than Manu...it's if he's a better player.

Well, is he? Probably. I'd like to think that if Manu was given the opportunity of going to the NBA at 18, getting the NBA-quality coaching and eased into a 50+ win team at a young age, we could mention them as equals. But he wasn't. Manu was a rookie in the league at an age where Kobe already had hardware.

I don't like the sorry er, but Kobe is a superior player to Ginobili. He isn't, however, a better teammate, and right here right now Manu is in a much better situation. And we all know which one had more fun this summer.

[Nikos]

Manu would never be as good as Kobe. You can't just extropolate stats over minutes and take into account touches and say that he would be as good as Kobe. There's a reason players play the amount of minutes they play and get the touches they get.

I understand y'all are Spurs fans. But Manu isn't at Kobe's level.

Of course, but the point is Kobe is not playing efficient basketball, thats all.

Just because Kobe has better ac ulated numbers does not mean he is playing better than guys like Wade, James, Ray etc... He is still the better player, but I do not think Kobe deserves a free pass because HE IS THE MAN, if he is playing below his standards and putting up an inefficient 27-7-7 I do not see the problem in pointing it out.

Of course Manu is not near Kobe's level. That is obvious. But for those using pure stats as a measurement to compare players, or just saying Manu is only doing well because he isn't the MAN is not completely accurate. He could probably put up similiar stats on another team, maybe better looking glory stats, but they would come less efficiently (but thats not something people recognize anyway). They just seem to notice PPG+RPG+APG etc...

[Kori Ellis]

Nikos -- there's no problem with your post. But several people in this thread said if Manu got Kobe's shots and playing time, he'd be as good as Kobe.

[E20]

Manu >> Kobe.

That's just me.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Individually I don't think Manu's as good as Kobe, though Manu's points and assists would go up given more touches.

However I will argue til' I'm blue in the face that Manu is a better team player than Kobe.

[TMTTRIO]

Kobe is the better player but IMO I'd rather have Manu on my team