Spurs vs. Suns Game 2 - Grades

[greens]

I agree with most of the grades. I just don't think Tony should have gotten a D. Manu getting a C and Tony a D? I saw more effort on Tony's part in this game than in Manu...I think Tony should have gotten a C as well...And Tim was pretty solid. So I would have given Timmy an A. He was the only one playing in the fourth quarter. At one point, he had like 15 points straight for the Spurs...I think Tim was on his best tonight. Too bad the rest of the team didn't help him at all...

Overall, pretty fair grades.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Too many minuses for all players today. It was a TEAM LOSS.

We desperately need Manu to be a leading scorer in these games, because he's the BENCH production.

Tony seemed completely off today. I think this was the second worst playoff performance I've seen out of the Spurs so far. Stagnated offense. Lazy hustle after one Phoenix score. At least one or two player on the floor played without heart.

And now there's about 4 DAYS to sit on this Spurs loss.

Second worst EVER? , 2nd worst this season, sure, but not ever. 2001 takes up places 1-4 on the list, then Nuggets game 1 (they were really bad), this game might just make the top 10, but probably not...

[kris]

Why be forced to double? He scored 15 in the 3rd and we didn't make up a single point on them. If he has it every single possession, eventually he'll fatigue, plus our defense will suffer from lack of energy/focus.

Duncan is no different than our other players, he has to score in the flow of the offense, he can't BE the entire offense.

I agree that in order for the Spurs to be ultimately successful, everybody has to be a part of the offense (everybody except Vaught and Elson), but the whole Spurs premise of offense relies on Duncan drawing attention and kicking out. If Duncan can't get better shots then awkward fallaway bankshots from 12 feet against Kurt Thomas, then the Spurs are dead (reference Timvp).

If Duncan scores at will like he is supposed to (like how Sean Elliott describes the torcher chamber), then the Suns will give help. If they don't, Duncan has been vintage and aggressive enough to hang up 54 like he did when Don Nelson tried to guard him with Juwan Howard and Dirk.

[timvp]

His confidence is shot and he's putting extra pressure on himself knowing if he doesn't make the next shot he won't get another one for 5 minutes. He just has to catch the ball and go to the hole immediately, don't wait for screens, don't wait for the offense to set up, nothing. Just go.

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.

I was surprised Manu was still averaging around 20 in his two playoff series.

I don't know why he forgot that getting to the line , and attacking the rim has ALWAYS been his bread and butter.

He should play without confidence in his jumper at all, and believe getting to the rim is the only way to do it. We need a hypnotist to remedy Manu's problem.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Second worst EVER? , 2nd worst this season, sure, but not ever. 2001 takes up places 1-4 on the list, then Nuggets game 1 (they were really bad), this game might just make the top 10, but probably not...

Well maybe the air hasn't cleared for me, to refrain from hyperboles.

[aaronstampler]

If single-teaming Duncan is the answer to beating the Spurs, why does no team do it?

The answer is that Duncan can beat you by himself. Sure, the Spurs will need offense from other players, which is why Parker has to be aggressive. If Parker can get out and run and get baskets for himself and others on the break, the Spurs can go to Duncan in the half court set.

No team has ever beaten the Spurs by single-teaming Duncan all game. There's a reason for that.

You don't go away from it "to get others involved". You get easy baskets in early offense or on fast breaks. Eventually, if Duncan dominates single-teams like he usually does, the Suns will be forced to change their defense.

The main reason I can think of, LJ, is that most coaches are just too stuck in their ways. They doubleteam the lowpost scorer because they're supposed to. Just like managers are supposed to bat the fast guy lead off, regardless of whether he can get on base well. Doubleteaming Duncan is the safe "by the book" move and nobody will rip you afterward if you do it and lose.

Also, the Suns can afford to do it because even if Duncan averages 1 point per possession, even 1.3 points, they know they're gonna score enough points to keep up. Almost any other team we play can't make that assumption. Tim simply doesn't have the physical endurance to score every time down the court against a single decent defender such as Thomas. I don't know of anyone has the stamina for such a feat.

I think the toll he had to spend on offense affected his defense because he was pretty tired and sluggish in his own end.

Ultimately I blame Pop because he calls the plays and there is no "early offense." Tony looks at him, he calls 4 down, they wait til the shot clock is at 10 to do anything and that's that. The Suns figured Tony out pretty quickly and Pop didn't have any answers.

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a s . It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

[timvp]

The main reason I can think of, LJ, is that most coaches are just too stuck in their ways. They doubleteam the lowpost scorer because they're supposed to. Just like managers are supposed to bat the fast guy lead off, regardless of whether he can get on base well. Doubleteaming Duncan is the safe "by the book" move and nobody will rip you afterward if you do it and lose.

Also, the Suns can afford to do it because even if Duncan averages 1 point per possession, even 1.3 points, they know they're gonna score enough points to keep up. Almost any other team we play can't make that assumption. Tim simply doesn't have the physical endurance to score every time down the court against a single decent defender such as Thomas. I don't know of anyone has the stamina for such a feat.

I think the toll he had to spend on offense affected his defense because he was pretty tired and sluggish in his own end.

Ultimately I blame Pop because he calls the plays and there is no "early offense." Tony looks at him, he calls 4 down, they wait til the shot clock is at 10 to do anything and that's that. The Suns figured Tony out pretty quickly and Pop didn't have any answers.

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a s . It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

Plenty of teams have tried to single-team Duncan. It just has never worked. If it didn't work in 2005 when Duncan had two sprained ankles, it's not going to work this year.

I'm not worried about that.

I'm more worried of others not doing enough with their touches and the defensive matches.

[cly2tw]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja.


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.

[timvp]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja.


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.

It doesn't have anything to do with Raja. Manu's struggles go back to when Steve Blake was guarding him.

And Manu has destroyed Raja before going back to his Jazz days. Raja is a good defender, but he's nothing overly special and isn't on the same level as Bowen.

[aaronstampler]

Bowen has sucked defensively these two games. Nash is going around him like a pylon. I think we should play Fin and Manu together more and make Nash have to ing guard somebody. Maybe we'll tire him out.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Someone on the Suns board posted this. Well, it's not Manu, it's Raja.


Here are Manu's numbers against the Suns this season:

Nov 8 - 12 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-13 from the field, 1-2 from three-point range
Feb 1 - 32 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists. 12-22 from the field, 3-8 from three-point range
Apr 5 - 7 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists. 3-11 from the field, 1-4 from three-point range
May 6 - 8 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists. 2-9 from the field, 1-3 from three-point range
May 8 - 6 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. 3-9 from the field, 0-2 from three-point range

Overall: 13 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.8 apg. FG%: 35.9, 3pt%: 31.6

And Raja played only 11 minutes in the 2nd game because of injury, thats why Manu was able to score 32.

Yeah, but you have to remember those came at a time when Manu was giving out those performances against other teams, no matter how crappy or good a defender was on him. November he was focused on getting his jumpshot going.

Not to mention that lone, February GOOD game was part of his two month stretch where the basket was much bigger for Manu and he was basically on fire every game at some point, scoring bunches of 15 to 20 in halfs and quarters.

By April and May he started struggling again.... So yes, Bell is a good defender, but I still believe it speaks more on Manu sucking overall. WRONG TIME TO STINK IT UP MANU! You should have saved your 24 point game for the postseason, chaco!

[MannyIsGod]

Ginobili has had plenty of touches. Instead of trying his step-back-pump-fake-a-three move ad nauseum, he needs to get back to getting to the free throw line.

He has one real trip the line this series. That's where he made his living in 2005 ... and even last year.

Seriously man. Can we ing tatoo this on the forehead of all these idiots who can't get in through their thick ing skulls?

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Seriously man. Can we ing tatoo this on the forehead of all these idiots who can't get in through their thick ing skulls?

That's why i think Pop benched him at one point.

I still think Pop needs to put the onus on him to not settle for a jumper or a pass. Three games and Manu still doesn't have a clue.

To be fair, Manu's two three point attempts were good looks. Parker even said so.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think 3 days off is the best thing right now. Hopefully calms down the momentum a bit, and the rest could help finley's back, as well as parker's bruised elbow

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I think 3 days off is the best thing right now. Hopefully calms down the momentum a bit, and the rest could help finley's back, as well as parker's bruised elbow

yeah, that's a good plus.

Anyone think Pop has any cards up his sleeves to counter the Kurt Thomas adjustment??

[Amuseddaysleeper]

yeah, that's a good plus.

Anyone think Pop has any cards up his sleeves to counter the Kurt Thomas adjustment??

well, i think tim will have to be aggressive and try to get KT in foul trouble, like he does to amare


but really, it comes down to the rest of the team, as I'm honestly more concerned with what we're not doing then what the suns are doing

[timvp]

With Duncan being single-teamed in the post, that means Manu has to be ready to create. I'd rather him go 3-for-15 as long as he's getting to the line and getting his shots up around the basket. The Suns defense is good, but Manu has shredded much tougher defenses in the past.

The same goes for Parker, but with Marion on him ... the Suns are trying to turn him into a jumpshooter. The onus falls on Manu to be Manu.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

lj, how would you feel about starting horry, and giving elson's minutes to bonner?

[timvp]

lj, how would you feel about starting horry, and giving elson's minutes to bonner?

I don't think it's time to panic. Panicking is part of the reason why the Mavs beat the Spurs last year.

Plus I don't think Bonner is ready for the playoff defensively. He's too much of a liability on that end of the court.

The Spurs went this long with Elson, might as well ride out the wave.

[Capt Bringdown]

I'm concerned because when we suck defensively we can figure out, but when we struggle offensively, Pop just gets more and more conservative, more and more in a s . It's could be like '04 against the lakers.

I agree with your comments on this thread. Play Duncan straight up and clamp down on the other guys. Make us hit the outside shot. People gotta step up and we gotta throw some different looks out there or we're in trouble.

[Hoy]

I'm giving everybody D and F, Tim gets C.

[RonMexico]

You failed to mention that the Suns were +21 with Kurt Thomas on the floor... pretty huge for an adjustment many Spurs fans claimed would have no effect.

[timvp]

You failed to mention that the Suns were +21 with Kurt Thomas on the floor... pretty huge for an adjustment many Spurs fans claimed would have no effect.

I see him as +22 and +29 now for the series. That's the highest out of anybody on either team. All eight times Thomas has been on the court, the Suns have grown their lead.

But yeah, Spurs fans laughed at me when I said D'Antoni made a great move by putting Thomas into the starting lineup. The Spurs played like they didn't think much of the move either.

[team-work]

3 days of rest hopefully will help the Spurs to readjust to the changes made by the Suns. Probably they're more ready to play and win "low"-scoring games (ie. not scoring 110+ pts.) The Spurs trademark defense should come back and made them score 80-90+ points. Everything starts with good defense. Once again, it's good if the Spurs could put together a good game for 48 minutes, and not for limited stretches only.

Still the HCA, so chances for the Spurs are still good.