What part of "he makes the ing vet min" don't you guys get?
There is absolutely not one single valid argument you guys can make for dumping him from this team, that isn't based 100% in bias or plain old ignorance of Horry's playoff legacy. Don't even try to do it and claim objectivity...you'll embarrass yourselves.
uhm 5 unless you mean he was key to us beating the Lakers.a guy that played a key role in winning 6 rings
Barkley and Malone never played with HorrySincerely, the Houston Rockets, the LA Lakers, Charles Barkley and Karl Malone...and their 0 rings after dumping Horry.
Wow you finally get something. Don't get too happy...either you are getting smarter or I am getting dumber...I wonder which it is...
Darn, just when you were showing signs of hope...Figure it out.Barkley and Malone never played with Horry
Now go and do what you do best...which seems to be hating white people.
Edit: and BTW...did you have some kind of relevant point to make or did you just pop into this thread to provide comic relief?
hmmmm The Rockets with Horry Western conf semi-finals. Rockets with Barkley Western conf finals. Lakers with Horry Western conf semis Lakers with Malone the finals. Both teams got better after dumping Horry.
spurs will need one vet forward next year
and I think they still try to trade rose
rose's play will help that
I would be for keeping rose and signing those two and then trade rose if they do not pan out. but alot will have to do with the new cba and if spurs can go to finals and help holt's pocket book
I think we should wait tell after the playoffs
if horry bails ou tthe spurs people will annoint him here and if he fails they will show him the door here
I think the Spurs will definitely bring Scola over this summer unless his stats drop dramatically.
You thin Horry is better than Scola? You see Scola in the Olympics, he averaged the same amount of points as Manu. I think he can back Duncan up. Horry is getting old.... i def. think Scola is better than him.
Damn, Whottt is such a moron.
Something must have gotten lost in the translation. "Old news" meaning it doesn't apply anymore. He was clutch ... but he's not anymore. Check his playoff stats the last two years if you need more evidence.Horry being clutch is old news? That's almost like saying breathing, water and sex are old news...does that invalidate their need?
If "old news" also applies to your sex life, that is more information than I needed to know.
horry was cluch against mem
Memphis was a fluke playoff team. Hubie Brown coached lottery talent into the playoffs. The Spurs would have won that series with Walton Buys Off Me getting the bulk of the minutes at power forward.
Get that weak out of here...are you trying to cram as many bad takes into one thread as humanly possible?
First of all...he's the same age Bowen and Barry are...they are all about a year apart. Now I realize that, in your mind, Horry needs a wheel chair just to get out on the court...but the fact remains...he is a vet minimum player on the deep bench...old players perform better in that role than most young players, young players usually who do not keep themselves sharp and never had the experience to get sharp in the first place.
Now...Ok, let's look at playoffs stats...
Code:2004 Spurs Playoffs Statistics PLAYER AVERAGES Player G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG Tim Duncan 10 10 40.5 .522 .000 .632 3.30 8.00 11.30 3.2 .80 2.00 4.20 3.40 22.1 Tony Parker 10 10 38.6 .429 .395 .657 .50 1.60 2.10 7.0 1.30 .10 3.10 1.50 18.4 Manu Ginobili 10 0 28.0 .447 .286 .818 1.50 3.80 5.30 3.1 1.70 .10 2.10 3.00 13.0 Hedo Turkoglu 10 10 27.1 .321 .333 .611 .50 4.00 4.50 1.5 .90 .10 1.60 2.00 7.7 Robert Horry 10 0 21.1 .465 .364 .929 2.50 3.80 6.30 .9 .80 .20 1.00 3.10 6.1 Bruce Bowen 10 10 29.8 .365 .379 .231 .60 2.30 2.90 1.0 .40 .30 .40 2.40 6.0 Rasho Nesterovic 10 10 26.1 .433 .000 .167 2.10 3.40 5.50 1.0 .30 1.10 .80 3.80 5.9 Devin Brown 9 0 14.4 .486 .600 .588 .40 1.60 2.00 1.0 .33 .11 .78 2.00 5.8 Jason Hart 7 0 8.9 .550 .000 .000 .00 .40 .40 .1 .71 .00 .14 .70 3.1 Charlie Ward 5 0 2.6 .667 1.000 .000 .00 .00 .00 .2 .40 .00 .40 .40 2.2 Charlie Ward 5 0 2.6 .667 1.000 .000 .00 .00 .00 .2 .40 .00 .40 .40 2.2 Malik Rose 7 0 8.3 .250 .000 .500 1.70 .70 2.40 .9 .57 .29 1.14 .90 1.4 Kevin Willis 7 0 3.6 .375 .000 .000 .00 .90 .90 .0 .14 .00 .00 .70 .9 Team Averages 10 0 240.0 .440 .365 .644 12.6 29.7 42.3 19.4 7.7 4.2 15.5 22.8 89.3 Opponents 10 0 240.0 .453 .323 .668 8.8 29.3 38.1 17.9 8.0 5.2 14.9 22.7 86.2
There's the stats for the entire team last season...If Horry choked what does that say about the rest of the team?
Again, it was a stupid ing idea to have him guard Shaq...we might as well have thrown crepe paper out there...
Now, here's the playoff stats for every year of Horry's career:
As you can see...his stats weren't bad last season...Code:Year Team Lg G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP 3PM 3PA 3PP ORB DRB TRB RPG AST APG STL BLK TO 1992-93 HOU NBA 12 374 123 10.3 47 101 .465 20 27 .741 9 30 .300 14 48 62 5.2 38 3.2 18 16 28 1993-94 HOU NBA 23 778 269 11.7 98 226 .434 39 51 .765 34 89 .382 40 101 141 6.1 82 3.6 35 20 27 1994-95 HOU NBA 22 841 288 13.1 93 209 .445 58 78 .744 44 110 .400 40 115 155 7.0 76 3.5 32 26 25 1995-96 HOU NBA 8 308 105 13.1 37 91 .407 10 23 .435 21 53 .396 15 42 57 7.1 24 3.0 21 13 15 1996-97 LAL NBA 9 279 60 6.7 17 38 .447 14 18 .778 12 28 .429 12 36 48 5.3 13 1.4 10 7 11 1997-98 LAL NBA 13 422 112 8.6 39 70 .557 28 41 .683 6 17 .353 34 50 84 6.5 40 3.1 14 14 18 1998-99 LAL NBA 8 177 40 5.0 12 26 .462 11 14 .786 5 12 .417 10 26 36 4.5 11 1.4 6 6 7 1999-00 LAL NBA 23 618 175 7.6 59 145 .407 40 57 .702 17 59 .288 38 85 123 5.3 58 2.5 20 19 30 2000-01 LAL NBA 16 382 94 5.9 32 87 .368 13 22 .591 17 47 .362 30 53 83 5.2 31 1.9 22 16 18 2001-02 LAL NBA 19 703 176 9.3 61 136 .449 30 38 .789 24 62 .387 36 118 154 8.1 61 3.2 33 16 30 2002-03 LAL NBA 12 373 67 5.6 30 94 .319 5 9 .556 2 38 .053 23 57 80 6.7 37 3.1 15 12 17 2003-04 SAS NBA 10 211 61 6.1 20 43 .465 13 14 .929 8 22 .364 25 38 63 6.3 9 0.9 8 2 10 Totals 175 5466 1570 9.0 545 1266 .430 281 392 .717 199 567 .351 317 769 1086 6.2 480 2.7 234 167 236
It's clear to me that guys like you and boutons haven't really watched this guy play much...it's not like he averages 50 points and 35 boards a game in the playoffs and never misses a shot....
That's not the type of clutch he is....he's not the type of clutch that Stephen Jackson is...Remember? I said this last season when I was ing about the loss of Jack and you guys were telling me Horry and Devin Brown were going to replace him...I said then...Horry is not a guy that's going to hit 5 or 6 threes in a row, nor is he going to be left open, by LA of all teams, to try and do so.....yes he has done that before...but that's not the type of clutch he is.
I mean he is capable of a nice game...
But what defines him as a player is what he has done in the closing seconds of huge games....It's for those few moments that he stands out like few players in history....
Case in point...in game 1 of the 94-95 WCF...
Hory only scored 1 basket...it was the game winner.
That's the type of clutch he is...he wasn't given that chance with us....
And in that series VS us...his hand was injured....and that shot went in the hoop, it was the best shot he took in that series...we just got lucky it bounced out again.
So I repeat...what part of "he makes the vet minimum" don't you guys ing get?
It's assinine to act like Scola is going to keep us from signing a vet min player...Scola aint going to be a vet min player...So I guess you guys want to sign Scola and then have a 9 man roster or something.
I'm also interested in seeing how enthusiastic Holt is going to be to have two back up PF making @ MLE...I know I heard him starting to squeak when he walked right around the time Parker was signing his contract.
And you guys don't know Scola is going to translate to the NBA or the type of ball the Spurs play...Was obvious Manu was going to fit...but I see Scola as being nothing more than a transition big...he's K Mart without the NBA athleticism and defensive ability. Pop will not go for it unless it's to trade him.
I never predict what Pop will do but I am going to on this...he won't like Scola's defense.
Last edited by whottt; 11-28-2004 at 06:41 PM.
Scola's price tag was reported to be about $3 million, not the full MLE.
When was the last time Horry was clutch in the final seconds anyway?
There's no reason to make it a Scola or Horry debate, there is room for both if it comes to that -- but we know Scola is going to be a priority next offseason and Horry was anything but a priority this past offseason.
scola will be here
the debate will be over the vets big
one of them will not be here if scola comes next year
alot will depend if spurs trade rose
He's been clutch more recently than the last time you didn't have a chicken , prevaricating and mendacious style of arguing.
There's no reason to make it a Scola or Horry debate, there is room for both if it comes to that -- but we know Scola is going to be a priority next offseason and Horry was anything but a priority this past offseason.
No ...well the steins' theory of basketball relativity is saying that it's an either or thing....I'm not the one saying that...I'm the one saying that is stupid logic.
So we bring in Scola and bring back Marks and Massenburg for the vet min and not Horry? That's ing stupid...
Oh and please don't let TimVP know Massenburg is 37...he might accidently think Massenburg is dying of old age and do something to upset the guy's family.
And whatever you do don't let him know that his offseason dream PG Avery Johnson is nearly 40...I think he might be overcome with grief thinking AJ only has months to live.
When? Be specific. Final seconds of which big game?He's been clutch more recently than the last time you didn't have a chicken , prevaricating and mendacious style of arguing.
I don't remember Horry being Clutch just clanking shot after shot in the laker series last year. And this year he has not done nothing in the 4th quarter except for the Boston game but in the Memphis game he fumble 2 huge rebounds in the closing minutes of a tight game.
I never brought up age. Stick to the facts. And if you are sticking to the facts, you might want to note how many more games Horry has played in his career when compared to Bowen. There is a lot more wear and tear on him. He'll admit that, the Spurs will admit that, so why can't you?
I don't GAF about the playoff stats. As I said already in this thread, Memphis was a well coached lottery team. Check out the Laker stats.
That's 23.5% from the field and 16.7% from downtown. Those are pitiful numbers especially considering that everyone (including himself) was hyped up about him sticking it to his old team. The Spurs needed him the most in one of the biggest playoff series in the franchise's history ... and he folded.Code:Spurs Leaders NAME GP GS MIN PTS OFF DEF TOT AST STL BLK TO A/TO PF TECH T. Duncan 6 0 41.8 20.7 3.8 8.3 12.2 3.3 1.00 1.67 4.7 0.71 3.5 0.2 T. Parker 6 0 39.7 16.7 0.8 1.3 2.2 6.0 1.67 0.17 3.0 2.00 1.8 0.0 E. Ginobili 6 0 28.8 14.7 1.8 4.3 6.2 3.7 1.83 0.00 1.8 2.00 3.5 0.0 D. Brown 6 0 19.8 8.5 0.7 2.2 2.8 1.3 0.50 0.17 1.2 1.14 3.0 0.0 R. Nesterovic 6 0 28.0 6.2 2.0 3.2 5.2 0.7 0.33 0.67 1.0 0.67 4.2 0.0 H. Turkoglu 6 0 23.0 6.2 0.5 3.2 3.7 1.2 0.67 0.00 1.2 1.00 1.8 0.0 B. Bowen 6 0 28.2 4.7 0.5 1.8 2.3 0.5 0.50 0.17 0.0 0.00 2.2 0.0 R. Horry 6 0 18.5 2.8 1.8 3.2 5.0 0.7 0.83 0.00 1.0 0.67 2.8 0.0 C. Ward 2 0 3.0 2.5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.50 0.00 0.5 0.00 1.0 0.0 J. Hart 3 0 7.0 2.0 0.0 0.3 0.3 0.0 0.33 0.00 0.0 0.00 0.3 0.0 M. Rose 3 0 9.0 2.0 2.7 1.3 4.0 1.0 0.33 0.00 0.3 3.00 0.7 0.0 K. Willis 4 0 4.8 1.0 0.0 1.3 1.3 0.0 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.00 1.3 0.0 TOTALS 6 --- --- 83.8 13.3 29.2 42.5 17.8 7.83 2.83 14.2 1.26 24.5 0.2 OPPONENTS 10 --- --- 86.2 8.8 29.3 38.1 17.9 8.00 5.20 14.2 1.26 0.2 0.9 Spurs Leaders NAME FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPS* ADJ. FG%^ T. Duncan 7.2 15.2 .473 0.0 0.2 .000 6.3 9.5 .667 43 90 .478 1.36 .473 T. Parker 7.2 18.8 .381 1.0 4.5 .222 1.3 2.2 .615 37 86 .430 0.88 .407 E. Ginobili 5.2 10.7 .484 1.3 3.8 .348 3.0 3.8 .783 23 41 .561 1.38 .547 D. Brown 3.0 5.5 .545 1.0 1.5 .667 1.5 2.5 .600 12 24 .500 1.55 .636 R. Nesterovic 3.0 7.7 .391 0.0 0.2 .000 0.2 1.0 .167 18 45 .400 0.80 .391 H. Turkoglu 2.2 8.3 .260 1.3 4.7 .286 0.5 1.0 .500 5 22 .227 0.74 .340 B. Bowen 1.7 5.8 .286 1.2 3.2 .368 0.2 0.8 .200 3 16 .188 0.80 .386 R. Horry 0.7 2.8 .235 0.3 2.0 .167 1.2 1.3 .875 2 5 .400 1.00 .294 C. Ward 1.0 2.0 .500 0.5 0.5 1.000 0.0 0.0 .000 1 3 .333 1.25 .625 J. Hart 1.0 2.0 .500 0.0 0.0 .000 0.0 0.0 .000 3 6 .500 1.00 .500 M. Rose 0.7 3.0 .222 0.0 0.7 .000 0.7 1.3 .500 2 7 .286 0.67 .222 K. Willis 0.5 1.5 .333 0.0 0.3 .000 0.0 0.3 .000 2 5 .400 0.67 .333 TOTALS 31.5 79.0 .399 6.3 20.7 .306 14.5 23.0 .630 151 350 .431 1.06 .439
It shouldn't have mattered that he was taking on Shaq on the other end. The idea was that he was going to be wide open on offense. The idea worked, but he just choked. Simple as that.
Surprising? No. He's already in decline. Check out what he did against the Spurs the year before.
He shot 26.2% from the floor and was 0-18 on threes. Are you starting to see the pattern? It's over. He was an awesome clutch player. I was a huge fan of his. But it's over. He's not clutch anymore.Code:Lakers Leaders NAME GP GS MIN PTS OFF DEF TOT AST STL BLK TO A/TO PF TECH K. Bryant 6 0 43.3 32.3 1.2 3.8 5.0 3.7 1.00 0.17 4.5 0.81 3.5 0.0 S. O'Neal 6 0 38.3 25.3 5.7 8.7 14.3 3.7 0.67 2.83 3.5 1.05 3.3 0.2 D. Fisher 6 0 35.3 10.0 0.2 2.5 2.7 1.0 0.83 0.17 1.7 0.60 3.0 0.0 D. George 5 0 29.6 7.0 0.4 2.4 2.8 1.6 0.60 0.00 1.2 1.33 2.4 0.0 S. Medvedenko 5 0 13.0 6.4 0.6 2.4 3.0 0.0 0.20 0.20 0.6 0.00 2.4 0.0 R. Horry 6 0 30.0 4.3 1.8 6.0 7.8 1.8 0.50 1.00 1.2 1.57 2.3 0.2 J. Pargo 5 0 15.0 3.4 0.4 0.6 1.0 1.2 1.20 0.20 1.0 1.20 2.4 0.0 K. Rush 5 0 8.0 3.2 0.4 0.0 0.4 0.4 0.20 0.00 0.6 0.67 0.4 0.0 M. Madsen 6 0 11.5 1.7 0.3 1.5 1.8 0.3 0.17 0.17 0.2 2.00 2.5 0.0 S. Walker 5 0 6.4 0.0 0.2 1.4 1.6 0.2 0.20 0.40 0.2 1.00 1.6 0.0 TOTALS 6 --- --- 93.7 11.0 31.5 42.5 15.8 5.50 5.00 15.3 1.03 24.0 0.3 OPPONENTS 12 --- --- 100.0 9.7 31.9 41.6 21.0 7.25 3.83 13.0 1.62 0.2 0.4 Lakers Leaders NAME FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPS* ADJ. FG%^ K. Bryant 11.5 26.5 .434 2.5 5.7 .441 6.8 8.7 .788 54 125 .432 1.22 .481 S. O'Neal 9.5 17.0 .559 0.0 0.0 .000 6.3 10.0 .633 57 102 .559 1.49 .559 D. Fisher 3.2 6.3 .500 1.3 2.2 .615 2.3 2.3 1.000 11 25 .440 1.58 .605 D. George 2.6 6.6 .394 1.0 2.8 .357 0.8 0.8 1.000 8 19 .421 1.06 .470 S. Medvedenko 2.8 4.8 .583 0.0 0.0 .000 0.8 1.2 .667 14 24 .583 1.33 .583 R. Horry 1.8 7.0 .262 0.0 3.0 .000 0.7 1.2 .571 11 24 .458 0.62 .262 J. Pargo 1.4 2.6 .538 0.6 1.6 .375 0.0 0.0 .000 4 5 .800 1.31 .654 K. Rush 1.2 3.6 .333 0.4 1.0 .400 0.4 0.4 1.000 4 13 .308 0.89 .389 M. Madsen 0.7 1.3 .500 0.0 0.0 .000 0.3 0.7 .500 4 8 .500 1.25 .500 S. Walker 0.0 0.6 .000 0.0 0.0 .000 0.0 0.0 .000 0 3 .000 0.00 .000 TOTALS 34.7 78.2 .443 6.0 17.8 .336 18.3 25.2 .728 172 362 .475 1.20 .482
Players get worn down ... that's life in the NBA. If we follow your logic, the Spurs might as well bring in Rick Barry, Chris Mullin, Joe Dumars and all the other clutch players in league history. You'd get all hot and bothered if you copy and pasted their playoff stats in your next fillibuster.
My main problem with him this season is now all of a sudden he can't rebound. His season high for defensive rebounds in a game is 2. He's averaging six rebounds per 48 minutes played. That is horrible for a power forward. That simply cannot get it done.
I don't mind him being on the team. He's a good insurance policy and understands the game as well as anyone in the league. What I mind is him playing in fourth quarters.
He isn't active enough on defense and he isn't rebounding. You can't have that ... especially when Rasho Nesterovic and Malik Rose are both good defenders and very good rebounders. Play either one of those two in fourth quarters, and the Spurs will be fine.
This season in the playoffs, do you want Robert Horry ending games? Answer me that. You know damn well that Nesterovic or Rose bring more to the table. And you know what? Pop is figuring that out. That's why Horry hasn't seen much playing time in the fourth quarters since his two horrible outings versus the Raptors and Grizzlies.
Pop learns ... will you?
What a prediction!
Does Scoula present any trade value to the Spurs? If the Spurs sign Scoula, does that waive off any possibility of signing Javtokas?
Based soley upon what I have read, signing Scoula seems like the safe thing to do, but Javtokas teases the mind to think he could be a poor man's Kirilenko, maybe more.
Of course, the Spurs could play both Scoula and Javtokas, but that would only happen if Malik were moved in a trade, which I don't see happening unless .....
Udrih is all that, and Malik and Parker are traded for a max-type player.
[/nevermind]
Who's Scoula?
Why do you care about trade value, Scola isn't coming here to be traded.
He's coming here to play, and Ithink he will adjust to the NBA, even if it takes a while.
"Argentinian" is my second language.Who's Scoula?
Look Bozo, I'm just presenting possibilities, silly as they may be.
Stop pretending you KNOW something.
I think you will adjust to this forum, even if it takes a while.
rose has trade value right now
if scola gets signed rose will be gone
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