NIN: Year Zero

[monosylab1k]

you buy albums put out by a rock singer who put out a book of poetry called "blinking with fists" (...funniest le since "smell the glove") and I am the one who is pretentious because I like Woody Allen?

when you are 15 years old, i guess this sort of logic still makes sense

and now you show everyone that you don't know the definition of "pretentious". keep trying.

p.s. 15 year olds these days are into My Chemical Romance, not Smashing Pumpkins.

[pussyface]

and now you show everyone that you don't know the definition of "pretentious". keep trying.

p.s. 15 year olds these days are into My Chemical Romance, not Smashing Pumpkins.

haha, funniest post ever.

grunge-rock-singer thinks his ty lyrics are so profound that they rise to the level of poetry. they don't need a killer riff, they stand on their own. decides he is more than what public thinks. no mere singer of rock songs. an artist. a poet. publishes book and calls it "blinking........with fists." 2 weeks later it is available in every "half-priced books" the world over.

this does not fit under the definition of pretentious? funny, funny . you crack me up, dude. you have got to be without question of the top 10 funniest guys in the sop re class at your high school.

[monosylab1k]

haha, funniest post ever.

grunge-rock-singer thinks his ty lyrics are so profound that they rise to the level of poetry. decides he is more than what public thinks. no mere singer of rock songs. an artist. a poet. publishes book and calls it "blinking........with fists."

this does not fit under the definition of pretentious? funny, funny . you crack me up, dude. you have got to be without question of the top 10 funniest guys in the sop re class at your high school.

wow. nobody said anything about billy corgan not being pretentious. do you even read your own posts? you kill your own arguments so much it's not even funny to read anymore. i just wish you'd learn to read, especially your own posts.

you said IN YOUR OWN POST that the fact that i like smashing pumpkins means that i have no basis to call you pretentious.

you can't be pretentious for liking smashing pumpkins. you can't be pretentious for liking woody allen. the fact that they're pretentious doesn't make you pretentious.

you CAN be pretentious, however, for telling someone what a dumbass they are for enjoying crap like Boondock Saints and using your love of Woody Allen films as some sort of barometer as to why your taste in film is more elevated than theirs.

that bachelor's degree is serving you well. a "sop re in high school" is making you look like a ing idiot every time you try to talk at him. hilarious.

[pussyface]

you CAN be pretentious, however, for telling someone what a dumbass they are for enjoying crap like Boondock Saints and using your love of Woody Allen films as some sort of barometer as to why your taste in film is more elevated than theirs.

what you are saying, then, is that all art/entertainment is created equal. superiority doesn't exist. ideals of taste/preference/quality have no place at all and shouldn't be commented on in any way.

if someone's favorite film director is michael bay and they think orson welles, stanley kubrick, scorcese, and fellinni are hacks, one cannot derive from this that there taste is not very sophisticated under the theory you just put forth and will continue to pretend to believe just to keep arguing.

opinion has no place. all is equal. jerry bruckheimer should be given exactly equal respect as hitch .

...this is not the sort of world I choose to inhabit.
so if that makes me and every social critic(mark twain, dave chappelle, roger ebert, kant etc etc) who ever lived and what they have to say irrelevent to you and your "you can't be critical of art/entertainment/one size fits all" worldview, than so be it.

when you get a little older, move out of your parents house/go off to college etc etc. much of this may become more clear to you.

[monosylab1k]

what you are saying, then, is that all art/entertainment is created equal. superiority doesn't exist. ideals of taste/preference/quality have no place at all and shouldn't be commented on in any way.

if someone's favorite film director is michael bay and they think orson welles, stanley kubrick, scorcese, and fellinni are hacks, one cannot derive from this that there taste is not very sophisticated under the theory you just put forth and will continue to pretend to believe just to keep arguing.

opinion has no place. all is equal. jerry bruckheimer should be given exactly equal respect as hitch .

...this is not the sort of world I choose to inhabit.
so if that makes me and every critical minded person (mark twain, dave chappelle, roger ebert etc etc) in the world and what we have to say irrelevent to you and your "you can't be critical of art/entertainment/one size fits all" worldview, than so be it.

when you get a little older, move out of your parents house/go off to college etc etc. much of this may become more clear to you.

nobody said anything about any of this? where the do you get off writing this bull ? unfortunately for me, i picture you jerking off hard to the delight of your own pointless words.

when did i say you can't be critical? i think boondock saints is one of the worst movies ever made. i love pre-1985 woody allen films. but i'm not going to be the pretentious that says "you are an idiot for liking boondock saints. i have far better taste in movies than you do. why? because i am a woody allen fan. take that siccophant!"

all art/entertainment is NOT created equal, but it's also NOT a black/white situation where liking one thing equates you to an idiot and liking something else gives you good taste. your view of "this movie is good, no questions asked. this movie sucks, no questions asked" is just as ridiculous as any "everything is equal" view.

but go ahead and continue telling people how " gy" they are for liking John Grisham and Michael Crichton books while you inform them that you are "un- gy" and far smarter than them because you enjoy Michael Chabon.

[leemajors]

wonder boys was almost bad enough to make me wish i had never read kavalier and clay

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm not a Korn, but I wanna hear what Bozzio does on the album. I also wanna see them live and see how Jordison sounds with them.

Here's Jordison playing "Shoots and Ladders" with KoRn, but they start with the intro to Jordison's own "The Blister Exists" from Slipknot after a bagpipe solo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_9jgMZQCOk

And here's him playing "Y'all Want a Single" with KoRn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_9jgMZQCOk

And if you become a member of Kornspace.com, you can download the two songs I mentioned that have Bozzio on the drums. They in rock!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

It's Billy and Jimmy Chamberlain with hired hands playing guitar and bass. No D'arcy and no James Iha....and if Iha isn't a part of it, then it's really not Smashing Pumpkins, IMO. I'll buy it but I'd be more excited if it was the original lineup and not just Billy Corgan trying to cash in on the SP name after Zwan and his solo career failed so badly.

What can you possibly base this assumption on? Smashing Pumpkins has always been Billy and Jimmy. The other parts are for aesthetic value only and played absolutely no part in like 99% of every Smashing Pumpkins song ever written.

Billy always recorded 100% of the guitars, 100% of the bass, and Jimmy 100% of the percussion. Darcy played horrible live, and Billy did not trust her enough to lay down sounds on a single track. I think Iha played a major role in one (1) SP song, and it was the last song on Disc 1 of Mellon Collie and Infinite Sadness. Iha sings in that song. Curiously enough, that song ing blows.
I guess if you love watching Iha play rhythm that much, you can't consider Smashing Pumpkins the Smashing Pumpkins anymore, but Billy behind SP is not unlike Trent behind NIN. The only exception is Jimmy, and Billy keeps him because he's one of the most ruthless drummers around. It's not a coincidence that Billy went digital with Adore after Jimmy got kicked out of the band for drug addiction.

It's always just been Billy and Jimmy.


Zwan was a total joke, i think he was burnt out on MDMA by then, but his solo album was actually pretty progressive. As for cashing in on the SP name, have you heard the new song? It's obvious the new album is going to bomb, it's not exactly something that's aimed towards cashing in.

BTW, Pussyface, if you were talking about Corgan's poetry (maybe you werent, I never knew he had a book) you are right. Corgan is one of the most pretentious ers in the business. I mean he transcends pretention. But I still like his music.

[monosylab1k]

It's always just been Billy and Jimmy.

Interesting, since they made an entire album without Jimmy.

As far as your "Billy went digital once Jimmy was out"....well that's completely untrue. He was speaking of electronic music being the future of the Pumpkins almost immediately after Mellon Collie was released, while Jimmy was still a part of the band. And despite what people think, the vast majority of Adore was NOT recorded with a drum machine, but with a live drummer, whether it was Matt Walker, Matt Cameron, or one of a few other guys who layed drum tracks down for that album.

Up until this point, Billy and James were the only two constant parts of SP from the beginning. You seriously underplay what James meant to the chemistry of the band. Billy was the brains behind the Pumpkins, but he was by no means a Trent Reznor one-man band with a bunch of hired guns playing instruments for him.

And there's only one reason why the new song isn't catching on with listeners - it sucks.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Interesting, since they made an entire album without Jimmy.

As far as your "Billy went digital once Jimmy was out"....well that's completely untrue. He was speaking of electronic music being the future of the Pumpkins almost immediately after Mellon Collie was released, while Jimmy was still a part of the band.

Which is why he shyed away from electronic and went the Machina route when Jimmy returned, right? (owned...)

And despite what people think, the vast majority of Adore was NOT recorded with a drum machine, but with a live drummer, whether it was Matt Walker, Matt Cameron, or one of a few other guys who layed drum tracks down for that album.

I'll buy that, props to you. But have you heard bootlegs from this era? Have you heard Adore songs live when they got Jimmy back? There is a difference there. The way they played Adore songs live when Jimmy came back put the smashing back in the pumpkins. Frankly, it kicked more ass. I gaurantee Adore would have sounded different if they had Jimmy. No SP drummer could ever replicate the sounds in Billy's head like Jimmy could, which is why i was saying he's the only crucial member of the band.

Up until this point, Billy and James were the only two constant parts of SP from the beginning. You seriously underplay what James meant to the chemistry of the band. Billy was the brains behind the Pumpkins, but he was by no means a Trent Reznor one-man band with a bunch of hired guns playing instruments for him.

No i dont. Find me some credits or links where it says Iha plays an actual role in making serious contributions to SP songs.

And there's only one reason why the new song isn't catching on with listeners - it sucks.

Yeah I already alluded to that.

[monosylab1k]

Which is why he shyed away from electronic and went the Machina route when Jimmy returned, right? (owned...)

He shyed away from electronic and went the Machina route because of the fact that Adore failed and he thought that a "return to rocking" would bring the Pumpkins back to their former fame and glory - but it was too late cuz at that point nobody gave a about the Pumpkins.

Now after see the resurrection of bands like Green Day, Corgan is hoping that the Smashing Pumpkins name is enough to get him back in the spotlight. He's a great musician, but let's not forget that he's also the biggest for attention this side of Paris Hilton, and he'll do anything to be back on the music scene the way the Pumpkins were in the mid-90's.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

He shyed away from electronic and went the Machina route because of the fact that Adore failed and he thought that a "return to rocking" would bring the Pumpkins back to their former fame and glory - but it was too late cuz at that point nobody gave a about the Pumpkins.

Now after see the resurrection of bands like Green Day, Corgan is hoping that the Smashing Pumpkins name is enough to get him back in the spotlight. He's a great musician, but let's not forget that he's also the biggest for attention this side of Paris Hilton, and he'll do anything to be back on the music scene the way the Pumpkins were in the mid-90's.

For the most part I agree with your second paragraph but I'm convinced Adore woulda (sorry my vocabulary sucks) rocked more if Jimmy had been in the band.

I think Machina was simply where he chose to go once he got his drummer back. Have you heard the drumming on Everlasting Gaze? Noone else but Jimmy could have performed that peice (while getting along with billy enough to get through recording and touring of course). Machina has some of the most un-pumpkin sounding tracks if you consider the glory days of "Bullet" and "Zero" and "Disarm" and "Today" to be mainstream pumpkins.
The lyrics are still lovey dovey but the music is different, in fact every album they did was different.

[leemajors]

everything after Siamese Dream blew anyway.

[Slinkyman]

i don't like manson at all, but there's nothing wrong with covers.

nothing wrong with covers sure, but when your last 3 radio hits are covers somethings really really wrong with that.

[ATRAIN]

Which NIN album do you think is the best. I personally think the Fragile is the best from what they have made. Of course all people that like closer and just the downward spiral usually disagree with me. I'm giving year zero another full listen right now as I type this.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This one guy I worked with said he considered Year Zero > The Fragile.

I still think Trent reached a peak with The Fragile, and that is my favorite NIN album. Downward Spiral is amazing, but I like the sadness Fragile evokes opposed to the anger that Spiral evokes.

[DarkReign]

Downward Spiral

I still have this avatar and its starting to grate on me. 10,000 Years = teh ssuk

Went to a show, played the entire stupid album. Dont get me wrong, its got some good stuff in it....but if 40% Good is all they aim for anymore, I'll 60% care.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Downward Spiral

I still have this avatar and its starting to grate on me. 10,000 Years = teh ssuk

Went to a show, played the entire stupid album. Dont get me wrong, its got some good stuff in it....but if 40% Good is all they aim for anymore, I'll 60% care.

I like listening to WFM/10KD on the album but live its soooooo boring.
I woulda liked them to take out that 20 minute song and add Third Eye, take out The Pot and add Push It.
Their setlist has remained the same for like over a year. Kinda sucks but still, was way worth seeing Danny turn into a human drum machine.

[CharlieMac]

The new Queens of the Stoneage is pretty good too.

I'm a big fan of covers too.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

better than lullabies to paralyze?

[monosylab1k]

The Fragile is my favorite NIN album. I'm not a huge fan but I do like The Fragile a whole lot. Although I think the best NIN song of all time is "right where it belongs" on With Teeth.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

The new Queens of the Stoneage is pretty good too.

No it's not.
It's disappointing to say the least.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Surely they sing a couple songs about writing songs in the desert right?

[ATRAIN]

better than lullabies to paralyze?

From what I have heard (half of it) its pretty good.....better than lullabies........no but they are both totally different. The opening song is pretty damn good.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

NIN sounds the same as every album reznor has made since phm. phm was original and cool......everything else sounds very monotonous.

are you "100%" sure about that.