Best European Player?

[nsrammstein]

Dirk is almost 30. Parker just turned 25 in May. In 5 years, he could easily be the best PG in basketball.

I believe Chris Paul has something to say about that. Plus what can Parker add that could vastly improve his game? Will he magically turn into a 40% 3pt shooter? And dish out 10+ ast per game? Age dosen't matter in this discussion, because its about the BEST EUROPEAN PLAYER right now playing in the NBA. When Parker carries the Spurs to the NBA finals, and dosen't have the best PF in the history if NBA backing him up, then maybe you can make a case for him about being the best Euro in the NBA. But right now the best euro in the NBA is Dirk Nowitzki.

[Findog]

Dirk is almost 30. Parker just turned 25 in May. In 5 years, he could easily be the best PG in basketball.

FYI, it's 2007, not 2012.

[gaKNOW!blee]

IMO Diaw should be replaced with Pietrus.

even tho Tonys got the rings and awards, Dirk is the best player.

[CubanMustGo]

The # of GMs and scouts that would take Tony Parker over Dirk in a hypothetical draft: 0.

Parker is a very good player, but he's also the beneficiary of playing alongside the best power forward of all time. I'm beginning to think the Spurs have the highest percentage of homers of all fanbases.

Damn dude, look at the numbers in the poll before you drag out the homer card. Any ing way Parker would get ANY votes on the mav boards?

[confined]

So you'd rather have Cherokee Parks than Pistol Pete? Shawn Bradley over Chris Paul? Mmkay.



Since this is an opinion thread, there isn't really a "lie" to be had here. If I think J.J. Re is the best player in basketball, that's not "lying", it's just incompetence. There's a difference.

Dirk deserves to be put in a unique category, because of his penchant for dominating the regular season but also due to his recent struggles against playoff compe ion. It did seem like the Mavs celebrated beating the Spurs last year like it was a Championship, and Dirk had 2 wretched games and another very poor one against the Heat. The Warriors displayed the ability to upset his game simply by manning up tight on him and taking the easy jumpers away, and by removing the mismatches created by pick-n-rolls.

Dirk is an anomaly. He's an MVP who was absolutely crushed in the first round against an inferior opponent with All-Star help around him. Bandy about matchups all you want, throw up buzzwords and talk about how the Mavs were "demoralized", the bottom line is that no superstar can blame being shut down on "matchups". Part of being the leader, one of the best players in the league is being unstoppable, to have an answer for everything.



Josh Howard? Jason Terry? Stack? Devin Harris? Wasn't this the team that was supposed to have the deepest bench in the NBA, the best collection of complementing talent?



Parker is 25 and is already one of the most well-rounded PGs in the league. His passing skills have matured greatly, as has his court vision. He's very good on defense, and did everything we asked of him and more in this past playoff run.

Also, there's not a player in the league that can keep him from getting to the rim. All you need to stop Dirk is a few long SFs who are willing to play physical defense.

i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

[Findog]

Damn dude, look at the numbers in the poll before you drag out the homer card. Any ing way Parker would get ANY votes on the mav boards?

It's akin to saying Devin Harris is better than Manu. Every fanbase has homers, including ours, so point taken.

[Cry Havoc]

I believe Chris Paul has something to say about that. Plus what can Parker add that could vastly improve his game? Will he magically turn into a 40% 3pt shooter? And dish out 10+ ast per game?

If Parker did either of these, he would quickly become a top 5 player in the league.

Age dosen't matter in this discussion, because its about the BEST EUROPEAN PLAYER right now playing in the NBA. When Parker carries the Spurs to the NBA finals, and dosen't have the best PF in the history if NBA backing him up, then maybe you can make a case for him about being the best Euro in the NBA. But right now the best euro in the NBA is Dirk Nowitzki.

Notice I never said that Parker was the best. I was merely making a statement that he's closer than most think. Just playing the advocate, that's all.

[Cry Havoc]

i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

When you fail to spell simple words properly, you leave little room to call others out. Just saying.

[Findog]

When you fail to spell simple words properly, you leave little room to call others out. Just saying.

Grammar and spelling pedantry. Sweet!

[Leetonidas]

@ Mav Fan crying because I didn't vote for Dirk's soft pussy.

Look, Dirk is a great player, and while I do believe he is a better scorer, he is not a leader, he is passive, and he is not as good a defender as Parker. Starting a franchise, I'd take Dirk over Tony because Dirk is a bigger matchup problem and he is a great shooter.

But, if I need a PG, I'd take Tony over anyone in the league except Nash.

[Cry Havoc]

Grammar and spelling pedantry. Sweet!

You're right. Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea.

Go back to admiring your MVP trophy.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

How is this even a question? Its definitely Dirk. Parker is a great point guard, but not a franchise player. Dirk, despite this and last year's playoff debacles is still a franchise player.

[Findog]

Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

Who said I'm angry? I just find it comical that the homers in your fanbase would go so far as to claim Tony Parker > Dirk. Only 14 year old girls in pink Josh Howard jerseys would say something like Devin Harris > Manu. There are idiot homers in other fanbases. Perhaps the perspective is skewed by visiting a Spurs board.

In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea....Go back to admiring your MVP trophy

What was that you were saying?

He's an MVP who was absolutely crushed in the first round against an inferior opponent with All-Star help around him.

19, 10 and 3 is "crushed"? He did that playing out of position at C because Dampier was out with a torn rotator cuff. I wonder what kind of shooting guard Timmy would make, or how many guys Tony Parker would be able to post up on the low blocks if Pop put him at the four. What All-Star help are you referring to? Josh Howard, the injury replacement? How many small forwards are better than him in the West? Carmelo, Marion (don't care what he's listed at), Rashard Lewis, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, that's five off the top of my head. And how are the Warriors inferior? The same Warriors that lost 49 games due to injury for B-Diddy and Jason Richardson? Do you think San Antonio would've finished 58-24 if Parker and Manu missed that many games? The same Warriors that received a major talent upgrade in Harrington and S-Jax? The same Warriors that went 16-5 down the stretch with everybody healthy and that new roster together? Those "inferior" Warriors?

Bandy about matchups all you want, throw up buzzwords and talk about how the Mavs were "demoralized", the bottom line is that no superstar can blame being shut down on "matchups".

19, 10 and 3 playing out of position is being "shut down"? Subpar for him, sure, but "shut down"?

Part of being the leader, one of the best players in the league is being unstoppable, to have an answer for everything.

So when Bowen guards Howard and Dirk takes Timmy out to the high post and torches him, is that having an answer for everything?

Dirk deserves to be put in a unique category, because of his penchant for dominating the regular season but also due to his recent struggles against playoff compe ion

Yeah, the regular season isn't important. Since we're a popular team, we get an invitation and a ticket to the playoffs and don't have to garner one of the top 8 records. I guess we could say the same thing about Timmy -- the Spurs dominated the regular season in 2004 but coughed up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers. They also had the best regular season record in 2006 but coughed up a 3-point lead to the Mavs in Game 7. I could use a word that starts with c and is 5 letters long, but how fair would that be?

[confined]

You're right. Getting steamed over an internet debate and resorting to name-calling and vast generalizations over an entire fanbase is so much better. My mistake.

In the future, I'll be mindful not to make posts in threads such as this, since they quickly devolve into "right and wrong" and not civilized discourse about the various facts and opines that accompany each idea.

Go back to admiring your MVP trophy.

did you seriously try to diss me for my grammar?...you need to stop and think about where your life is going buddy

[spursfan09]

Mav fans shouldn't be upset cause right now Spur fans think TP is the greatest. He just won a finals MVP. It can't get much better than that.

[confined]

Wow this has just become a pathetic thread...I can't believe all the arguments over this..it's pretty sad.

Let's just end it already....Dirk is the best European Player Ever..Period!!!!!!!!

Tony isn't a leader either, It's Duncan and then Manu...Tony is the best slasher in the NBA and he is becoming a great shooter too...but please people he isn't the best European player let alone a leader on the Spurs.

[Money316]

German pussy is great

Dirk's reaction after eating some

[MrChug]

I voted for Dirk.

The vote didn't call for the best leader on the list which Parker is the clear frontrunner.

[Johnny RIngo]

i said it once and ill say it again...spurs fans = biggest homers ever....this is just rediculous

Mavstalk?

Arizona fans.com?

[confined]

Mavstalk?

Arizona fans.com?

what?

[Johnny RIngo]

what?

You want homers go to those two sites.

[Cry Havoc]

Who said I'm angry? I just find it comical that the homers in your fanbase would go so far as to claim Tony Parker > Dirk. Only 14 year old girls in pink Josh Howard jerseys would say something like Devin Harris > Manu. There are idiot homers in other fanbases. Perhaps the perspective is skewed by visiting a Spurs board.

It's difficult not to see Parker as the next dominant point right now. He's one of the most unguardable players in the league, and he's pretty damn solid on defense.

However, I agree with the statement that Dirk is still the best Euro-player. I was merely attempting to assert the claim that Parker deserves to be in contention, or mentioned in the same breath, as more than a completely fallacious one. But of course, making any kind of a statement other than black and white on this board is immediately pissed upon.

For the record, the "angry" comment wasn't even directed at you. You have a habit of being defensive (don't we all) but I wouldn't lump you into the category of someone who retorts with, "OMG U INSULTID MY FAV. PLAYUR DIE DIE DIE". Yet.

What was that you were saying?

I apologize. I was merely miffed at your response, and the fact that you seem to have missed my point entirely.

19, 10 and 3 is "crushed"? He did that playing out of position at C because Dampier was out with a torn rotator cuff.

He shot 38% from the field. And at least a few points came from late minute garbage time when the Warriors were busy celebrating.

I wonder what kind of shooting guard Timmy would make, or how many guys Tony Parker would be able to post up on the low blocks if Pop put him at the four.

Uh, what? They're both Power Forwards. Duncan did just FINE playing the 5 spot. So what, because Dirk is a shooter, it somehow alleviates him from playing post-defense? Or stopping Bierdins? Dirk was a liability in that series and just disappeared at times. Your comparison is completely flawed. Dirk should have developed a better low-post game if there was a CHANCE of him playing that position. Duncan would never get stuck at the two, so he doesn't need to be a bomber or learn how to guard Ray Allen.

What All-Star help are you referring to? Josh Howard, the injury replacement? How many small forwards are better than him in the West? Carmelo, Marion (don't care what he's listed at), Rashard Lewis, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, that's five off the top of my head. And how are the Warriors inferior? The same Warriors that lost 49 games due to injury for B-Diddy and Jason Richardson?

You're making excuses for a team that won 67 games in the regular season? Because Golden State was better than as-billed? What, you think they would have made a run at 70 if they were healthy? Come on. You're selling out the entire Mavs team just to defend Dirk.

Do you think San Antonio would've finished 58-24 if Parker and Manu missed that many games?

As I recall, the Spurs had a pretty damn good regular season when Duncan was hobbled all year with his plantar fasciitis.

The same Warriors that received a major talent upgrade in Harrington and S-Jax? The same Warriors that went 16-5 down the stretch with everybody healthy and that new roster together? Those "inferior" Warriors?

Yeah, that team was SO awesome that they were completely dismantled by the Utah Jazz, who might have 6 pubic hairs between them.

19, 10 and 3 playing out of position is being "shut down"? Subpar for him, sure, but "shut down"?

I've never in my life seen a superstar, let alone an MVP, disappear so rapidly in a series. You can cite his statlines, the bottom line is that Dirk was a non-factor in the series, except for the game where he went for 30+.

*edit* My mistake, his high point total was 23. And you're defending him. Hmmm. 8-10 and 2 in a lose-or-go-home game? That's a horrific way to go out. Why you are trying to so hard to alleviate him of all blame is just staggering. So it's Avery's fault? It's the role player's fault? It's the other All-Star's fault, who you would have been swept without? Just keep making those excuses for Dirk.

So when Bowen guards Howard and Dirk takes Timmy out to the high post and torches him, is that having an answer for everything?

Duncan's the best post-defender in the league. Dirk couldn't guard a single player on the Warriors. Duncan was a MONSTER in the 2006 WC2R. He outplayed Dirk for that entire series. Jordan has been burnt by players before, but he had the most well-rounded game of anyone the league has ever seen. This isn't a one-time occurrence with Dirk.

Yeah, the regular season isn't important. Since we're a popular team, we get an invitation and a ticket to the playoffs and don't have to garner one of the top 8 records. I guess we could say the same thing about Timmy -- the Spurs dominated the regular season in 2004 but coughed up a 2-0 lead to the Lakers. They also had the best regular season record in 2006 but coughed up a 3-point lead to the Mavs in Game 7. I could use a word that starts with c and is 5 letters long, but how fair would that be?

It's well known that the Spurs have let games slip away in the past.

It's equally as impressive that, had they not, they could likely be going for their SIXTH straight le defense, rather than their 4th in 6 years. Note the difference? You can call the Spurs chokers all they want, but they've got it done. Repeatedly (just not in repeat). Enough that they're being referred to by some as a dynasty, and if they defend next year, it will be an absolute lock in 90+% of the sports worlds' eyes. But call a dynasty (or a potential one) chokers all you want, if that's what makes you feel better.

[Johnny RIngo]

A small part of me actually thought the Mavs were cheated in the Finals but the first round collapse reaffirmed my belief that the Mavs are simply chokers. I don't care if they can't match up with GS...no 67 win team should be eliminated by an 8th seed. If your coach can't make proper adjustments or your star players don't step up then you deserve to be labeled chokers.

[Josepatches]

You only have to see that even the "actual" Jacque Vaughn seems to be a good second PG playing in the Spurs.That's say all.Parker is an amazing PG but he has an amazing teammates and the best PF of the history so it´s really difficult to stop him.
Pau is the second better european player right now.MVP of the world championship last year.
This september there are an European Championship and this 3 players will be there.We'll see who is better without Duncan,Manu,Terry or Howard.In the last one I believe Dirk was the MVP.
About the list,there are better players playing in Europe than Ilgauskas,Diaw(this year,not last year) or Okur like Papaloukas and Juan Carlos Navarro.
In the future I believe in Bargnani,he could be as good as Dirk.

[Cry Havoc]

Parker
Ginobili
Nowitzki
Diaw
Gasol

That's a pretty ferocious lineup.

On a side note, it's surprising that Peja made this list while Manu did not.