Charles Barkley's Assessment of Dirk Today

[RonMexico]

One thing is right - the Mavs do not have 2 all-stars, proving again that Josh Howard was merely a shoo-in because the Mavs had the best record at the All-Star break.

[Testing]

It's not so much that they had bad games, but Dirk is not exactly the type of player that makes his team-mates better. If he isn't scoring/rebounding he doesn't do much else. He's not the best passer, he's not a great defender/shot blocker, he doesn't bring intangibles like good leadership, hustle, etc. That's my biggest criticism for him.


Dirk and Lebron have plenty of holes in their games....ironically, both need to learn to post-up better. Other big time players who win championships like Duncan do other things for their teams when they aren't scoring to help them win.

When Dirk isn't scoring, he doesn't impact a game. You can't win championships with a superstar like this, no matter how great your support cast is or isn't. Because you're go to guy doesn't neccesarily have to be reliable so much as versatile and I don't think Dirk is.

[td4mvp21]

Dirk has some of the best teammates in the league. JHo and Terry are damn good players, both of course have weaknesses, but they are also very good. Stackhouse, Dampier, and Harris are better than most of what the other teams in the league have. Dirk and his whole team choked. No one took it to the hole. They all went into pussy mode, with Dirk leading the way.

[Switchman]

The Mavericks highest paid player won a ring this year. Booyah.

[monosylab1k]

Dirk has some of the best teammates in the league. JHo and Terry are damn good players, both of course have weaknesses, but they are also very good. Stackhouse, Dampier, and Harris are better than most of what the other teams in the league have. Dirk and his whole team choked. No one took it to the hole. They all went into pussy mode, with Dirk leading the way.

that is exactly it right there.

All the excuses in the world can be made about the supporting players, but they are just following the leader. If Dirk nuts up and gets the job done, the fall in line accordingly (San Antonio last year). If Dirk goes into pussy mode, their going to do the exact same thing (Golden State this year, Miami last year, Phoenix and to an extent Houston the year before, Sacramento before that).

[Findog]

He's also been a part of a team that blew a 3-0 series lead to Portland and damn near lost game 7,

Won that series, he was clutch in Game 7

went down 0-2 to a vastly inferior Houston team and allowed them to stretch it to 7

Won that series too with Terry, Howard and Finley getting good looks because he was triple-teamed

(not expending all that energy against Houston would have helped tremendously against a beatable Phoenix team that Dirk didn't exactly light it up against either)

Phoenix was better that year, he wasn't the guy who failed to check Nash coming across midcourt

and of course the flameouts of the past 2 seasons where each time a guy 4 inches shorter than him found a way to thoroughly dominate him despite his "matchup nightmare" status.

He got double and triple-teamed and still put up 20 and 10. And we didn't have an answer for Wade or Davis. Is that his fault?

How about the fact that for the better part of a decade people have been saying "Dirk needs to get a post game" and every year we hear reports of "Dirk is working on a post game" and every year when we lose we say "Where is Dirk's post game?".....every year we say "Dirk needs to be more aggressive" and Dirk says "I need to be more aggressive" and every year we wonder why Dirk isn't aggressive when it matters most.

Dirk is not a back to the basket scorer. Period. He's a shooting guard in a PF's body. That's what makes him so dangerous. He can just shoot over guys. And he's done a damn good job of attacking the basket more, but it's not by settling on the low blocks, it's by driving and facing the rim. We could use more interior scoring, we had it when Jamison was on the roster and Juwan Howard was on the roster. Blame the FO for not acquiring it instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Tim Duncan can hit an 18-footer consistently, does that mean Pop should move him out to shooting guard?

Oh, and a free throw here and there, and this team is a champion. He's a 90% free throw shooter. Excuse for that?

He's supposed to hit 100% of his fts? Wade missed two straight FT's with 20 seconds to go in G6 that would've iced it and gave us another chance, you wanna argue Wade isn't clutch?

He had a brilliant series against San Antonio last year, but aside from that, he has not shown an ability to carry a team.

So he had nothing to do with those 8 series wins? Just a spectator along for the ride?

Each year our playoff "hero" is Nash or Finley or Van Exel or Terry or someone else that isn't "The Man"......aside from one brilliant series, it has not been Dirk

I just wonder who you expected us to beat from 2001-2005 when we were eliminated? The spurs in 2001? the kings in 2002? the spurs in 2003? the suns in 2005? we were on an equal footing with the kings in 2004, three of those four losses came down to a final possession, finley missed a shot in G2, nash missed a shot in G4 and Dirk missed one in G5. Are you gonna give Nash and finley a pass but not dirk?

He was subpar against GS, the whole damn team was. If we're going to throw out Dirk on the basis of that one series, then we need to get rid of the whole team based on that ephemeral logic.

[monosylab1k]

Won that series, he was clutch in Game 7

The point is, being up 3-0, should that have ever gone to 7?

Won that series too with Terry, Howard and Finley getting good looks because he was triple-teamed

He was never triple-teamed. I don't think you remember much of that series. I recall a certain lanky white guy who I don't think is even in the league anymore receiving the nickname "Germanator" because despite his lack of any discernible basketball talent, Dirk played like when he guarded him. Oh yeah, Ryan Bowen.

Phoenix was better that year, he wasn't the guy who failed to check Nash coming across midcourt

I'd argue that Phoenix was not better that year, that they may have had some matchup advantages but so did we, and overall the series was a push...but with a stronger performance out of Dirk and less finger pointing at Dampier, Dallas could have won that series.

Dirk is not a back to the basket scorer. Period. He's a shooting guard in a PF's body. That's what makes him so dangerous. He can just shoot over guys.

So how does that explain 6'-8" Stephen Jackson and 6'-8" Udonis Haslem?

Tim Duncan can hit an 18-footer consistently, does that mean Pop should move him out to shooting guard?

No, but having that shot available to him makes him that much more dangerous. Dirk has no semi-reliable post game to speak of that adds to his versatility.

I'm sorry but saying "Dirk is not a post player" is akin to just saying "Dirk is one dimensional". And I don't think that The Man of any team needs to be described as one dimensional.

He's supposed to hit 100% of his fts?

He's supposed to hit them when it matters the most, like for instance, the closing minutes of an NBA Finals game.

Duncan is in no way a good FT shooter but have you EVER seen him miss when his team absolutely needs those points?

Wade missed two straight FT's with 20 seconds to go in G6 that would've iced it and gave us another chance, you wanna argue Wade isn't clutch?

Dirk misses clutch FT's, Wade takes advantage of it. Wade misses clutch FT's, and Dirk...

So he had nothing to do with those 8 series wins? Just a spectator along for the ride?

He wasn't a spectator, but he was just one of the five out there. You need more than that out of your leader.

I just wonder who you expected us to beat from 2001-2005 when we were eliminated? The spurs in 2001? the kings in 2002? the spurs in 2003? the suns in 2005?

kings in 04, suns in 05, heat in 06, warriors in 07 were ALL winnable.

[bdictjames]

But no matter how you look at it, its still unfair to Dirk for getting blamed for the whole team's fault. I dont know how this guy would make the critics happy that is not related to getting an NBA ring

[monosylab1k]

I dont know how this guy would make the critics happy that is not related to getting an NBA ring

He had his golden opportunity to get that ring and make sure he never heard another critic again, and he choked and let it slip through his fingers. I love Dirk but he deserves the criticism heaped on him. Who knows if he'll ever get another shot at redemption, but if he does he'd better make sure not to screw it up again or he might get labeled the biggest choker in NBA history.

[Shank]

Bunch of flip-flopping asshole "fans" up in here.

[Findog]

The point is, being up 3-0, should that have ever gone to 7?

We won, he came through when it mattered. Nash and Finley were on that team too and I don't think Spurs or Suns fans would denigrate their "toughness." I just don't agree with laying all of a team's failures at Dirk's feet.

He was never triple-teamed. I don't think you remember much of that series. I recall a certain lanky white guy who I don't think is even in the league anymore receiving the nickname "Germanator" because despite his lack of any discernible basketball talent, Dirk played like when he guarded him. Oh yeah, Ryan Bowen.

I watched that series and I don't remember Bowen guarding him one on one the entire time. I remember JVG sometimes sending a double team, sometimes not, basically playing him the way Nellie played him in the GS series.

I'd argue that Phoenix was not better that year, that they may have had some matchup advantages but so did we, and overall the series was a push...but with a stronger performance out of Dirk and less finger pointing at Dampier, Dallas could have won that series.

I think the Suns were better and we had no answer for Nash and Amare on the pic n roll.

So how does that explain 6'-8" Stephen Jackson and 6'-8" Udonis Haslem?

Do you think that Terry, Griffin and Harris were allowed to aggressively body up Wade and defend him the same way Haslem and Posey were allowed to defend Dirk? A guy of Dirk's size is going to absorb more contact and not get the call from the refs because he's bigger and stronger. Shaq has been fouled more than any guy in the history of the League without getting the call. I don't recall Stephen Jackson guarding Dirk one on one.

I'm sorry but saying "Dirk is not a post player" is akin to just saying "Dirk is one dimensional". And I don't think that The Man of any team needs to be described as one dimensional.

I don't think Dirk is one dimensional, he can take guys off the dribble and drive to the basket and he can go outside and shoot over them. What he can't do is post guys up like Zach Randolph. This wasn't anything new before the GS series, the brain trust didn't think we needed a btb scorer to complement him. He always scores facing the basket.

He's supposed to hit them when it matters the most, like for instance, the closing minutes of an NBA Finals game.

You could say the same about Wade then. Our team didn't capitalize on the exact same scenario. Nash is a 93% FT shooter and he missed two in a row after the Horry foul. It happens. You're expecting perfection.

Duncan is in no way a good FT shooter but have you EVER seen him miss when his team absolutely needs those points?

Yes. Ask any Spurs fan about his FT shooting. He's hit big ft's and he's missed big ft's.

Dirk misses clutch FT's, Wade takes advantage of it. Wade misses clutch FT's, and Dirk...

Dirk missed a ft that would've tied the game. Wade missed two FT's and JET missed a three. It's a team game.

kings in 04, suns in 05, heat in 06, warriors in 07 were ALL winnable.

And Jazz in 01, Blazers 03, Kings 03, Rockets 05, Spurs 06, Suns 06 were all losable. I don't mind calling him out for turning in a subpar performance, I'm just not into making sweeping judgments and letting his teammates off the hook and putting it all at his feet.

[Findog]

But no matter how you look at it, its still unfair to Dirk for getting blamed for the whole team's fault. I dont know how this guy would make the critics happy that is not related to getting an NBA ring

THANK YOU. The answer is for whatever reason he can't. Wade stepped his game up and we had nobody to guard him. Davis stepped his game up and we had nobody to guard him either. I've seen umpteen ing mentions of Dirk being a choker, but nobody ever seems to point out what piss-poor perimeter defense we had when it mattered. A slightly better performance from Dirk, or slightly better perimeter defense, and we win those series. Dirk has brought legitimate criticism upon himself, what he doesn't deserve is piling on. Let's make room under the bus for Avery getting worked over by Riley and Nellie and for our perimeter guards unable to keep Wade and B-Diddy in front of them.

[Sec24Row7]

Josh Howard was the best player on the floor for the Mavs that entire series...

[StylisticS]

Josh Howard was the best player on the floor for the Mavs that entire series...

You're right. In the first half. But in the 2nd, he disappeared. That's my big and probably only problem with Josh. He is aggressive and relentless in the 1st half. But when the 2nd half begins, he loses that fire. He did that all of last season. I hope he is aware of that and works on it next season because we needed his fire in the 2nd half in every game of that series. Fortunately, that's the easiest thing he can improve on.

[monosylab1k]

Do you think that Terry, Griffin and Harris were allowed to aggressively body up Wade and defend him the same way Haslem and Posey were allowed to defend Dirk?

Yeah but he's supposed to be able to just shoot over them. He's a 7 footer trapped in a SG body. And Dirk gets plenty of calls when he's aggressive no matter who is on him.

And Jazz in 01, Blazers 03, Kings 03, Rockets 05, Spurs 06, Suns 06 were all losable.

Blazers 03 should have never gone to 6 games, much less 7.

Kings 03 without Webber should never have gone 7.

Rockets 05 should have gone 5 but that tricky Germanator....

Suns 06 was never losable. That team was so worn out by the time they faced us they were practically begging us to kill them. It's embarrassing that the series went 6 games.

I don't mind calling him out for turning in a subpar performance, I'm just not into making sweeping judgments and letting his teammates off the hook and putting it all at his feet.

When you're The Man, that's what happens. Live with it, man up, and in' do something about it. Don't let a ing 8-seed group of buckwild chuckers kick your ass while you decide to show up for about 6 total minutes the entire series, and then have people make excuses about your ty overpaid center not being available, how they "aren't really an 8-seed", or have them about a couple other guys not being able to handle the load that you're supposed to be shouldering to begin with.

[monosylab1k]

Bunch of flip-flopping asshole "fans" up in here.

Sorry that my Maverick pom-poms aren't going wild 24/7. If they deserve criticism, they're gonna get it.

[Findog]

Blazers 03 should have never gone to 6 games, much less 7.

Kings 03 without Webber should never have gone 7.

Rockets 05 should have gone 5 but that tricky Germanator....

Suns 06 was never losable. That team was so worn out by the time they faced us they were practically begging us to kill them. It's embarrassing that the series went 6 games.

LOL. We won those series against very good teams. I'm beginning to think that nothing but a 16-0 romp through the playoffs with Dirk putting up 40, 20 and 10 is going to satisfy you.

[monosylab1k]

LOL. We won those series against very good teams. I'm beginning to think that nothing but a 16-0 romp through the playoffs with Dirk putting up 40, 20 and 10 is going to satisfy you.

Going 7 games with San Antonio is one thing.

Going 7 against T-Mac, an unrefined Yao, and Bobby ing Sura is something else completely.

And losing in 6 to Miami and Golden State are even more pathetic.

I'd rather not hear about how a bunch of ty first round victories somehow vindicates Dirk's playoff history.

[Findog]

Going 7 against T-Mac, an unrefined Yao, and Bobby ing Sura is something else completely

And losing in 6 to Miami and Golden State are even more pathetic.

That Houston team was damn good. Dwyane Wade and a motivated Shaq are damn good. They probably would've won the le a year before if they hadnt been derailed by injuries in the ECF. (ducks angry Spurs fans)

But I'm detecting a theme here...Wade went for 35 ppg on 16 FTAs and 47% shooting. Is that Dirk's fault?

Baron Davis went for 25 and 5 on 57% shooting. Is that Dirk's fault?

Tracy McGrady went for 31, 7 and 7 on 46% shooting. Is that Dirk's fault?

Dirk went for 22, 8 and 3 on 36% shooting in the Houston series. That IS on him. Subpar for him, but not terrible. Even when he's off his game, he still helps his team. You act like he's a complete non-factor. And he's drawing double teams. Where is the constant harping on our perimeter defense? Everybody wants to call out Dirk, nobody wants to call out our guards for being unable to keep McGrady, Nash, Wade and Davis in front of them. That's just as big a factor in my mind in playoff failure as anything Dirk has or hasn't done.

I'd rather not hear about how a bunch of ty first round victories somehow vindicates Dirk's playoff history.

When have we been a legitimate le contender? When we were wet behind the ears and lost to the Spurs in 2001? When we played no team d and lost to the Kings in 2002, Spurs in 2003, Kings again in 2004? When we ran into a better Phoenix team in 2005? I'd personally prefer not to crucify the guy and lay team failures at his feet without taking into account his entire body of work, but we're en led to differing opinions.

[Ignorant Spurs fan]

I agree with some of this.

Mavericks just need to play some ing defense. go out there and pester your man and then hold your ground and get your hands up when they drive if your a help defender. they dont stop penetration, instead they slap at the ball and foul. the Houston team that almost beat them and the Golden State team were both much tougher mentally.

[monosylab1k]

When have we been a legitimate le contender? When we were wet behind the ears and lost to the Spurs in 2001? When we played no team d and lost to the Kings in 2002, Spurs in 2003, Kings again in 2004? When we ran into a better Phoenix team in 2005? I'd personally prefer not to crucify the guy and lay team failures at his feet without taking into account his entire body of work, but we're en led to differing opinions.

Don't talk about this team like they're the ing Cavaliers. This team has had an elite level of talent surrounding Dirk for years now. If you're telling me that they couldn't compete or beat the 05 Suns then you're crazy. And a Top-5 team in the league SHOULD NOT have trouble beating T-Mac, an inexperienced Yao, and 10 heads who didn't belong in the NBA.

And my mistake, I supposed 7 years ISN'T enough time to expect a superstar with a strong supporting cast, one of the top coaches, and an owner who will provide him with anything he needs to succeed, to have consistent success in the playoffs. I'll never make the mistake of expecting anything out of this team again.

Eventually it's time to put the big boy pants on. Dirk tried them on last year and for whatever reason took them off.

[Findog]

Don't talk about this team like they're the ing Cavaliers. This team has had an elite level of talent surrounding Dirk for years now.

Nellie and the Big Three were never going to beat the Spurs or Shaq/Kobe. It's like asking the Cavs to beat the Spurs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they couldn't.

If you're telling me that they couldn't compete or beat the 05 Suns then you're crazy.

05 Suns were slightly better than the 05 Mavs. I didn't say they had no chance to beat the Suns, but it's not a surprise Phoenix won that series. Give the Suns some credit, they were really ing good that year.

And a Top-5 team in the league SHOULD NOT have trouble beating T-Mac, an inexperienced Yao, and 10 heads who didn't belong in the NBA.

It's going to be hard to beat a team when T-Mac is going off for 31, 7 and 7. T-Mac, Yao and "10 heads" aren't going to go 52-30 and grab a 5 seed in the West.

And my mistake, I supposed 7 years ISN'T enough time to expect a superstar with a strong supporting cast, one of the top coaches, and an owner who will provide him with anything he needs to succeed, to have consistent success in the playoffs.

I would say only in the last two years has there been a reasonable expectation on the part of Mavs fans to compete for a le. Jet is 30, Dirk is 29, Josh is 26, Devin is 25, Diop is 23. Avery is a young head coach. The window is far from closed and the final chapter on Dirk's Mavs hasn't been written.

I'll never make the mistake of expecting anything out of this team again.

A lot of people foolishly wrote the Spurs off as being "too old" after last year and claimed a "torch had been passed." I think it would be equally foolish to write off Dallas as being "psychologically scarred" or unable to ever do anything in the playoffs again. I don't think Popovich or D'Antoni shares your assessment.

Eventually it's time to put the big boy pants on. Dirk tried them on last year and for whatever reason took them off

His teammates haven't done their part either. You completely glossed over my argument about our perimeter d against the premier guards in the League. Are you satisfied and happy with the way we defended Tmac, Nash, Wade and Davis? And if not, do you blame Dirk for that? Basketball is not a one-man game.

[monosylab1k]

Nellie and the Big Three were never going to beat the Spurs or Shaq/Kobe. It's like asking the Cavs to beat the Spurs. I'm not going to hold it against them that they couldn't.

Nellie and the Big Three took the Spurs to 6 without Dirk and should have gone to 7 if not for a miraculous barrage of 3's by Kerr and Jackson. That team wasn't as good as the Spurs but they had a decent shot at beating them.

Maybe if they don't blow a 3-0 lead to Portland and didn't take 7 games to beat a Webber-less Kings team they would have had an even better chance to take down the Spurs that year.

It's going to be hard to beat a team when T-Mac is going off for 31, 7 and 7.

It's even harder when a guy named Ryan Bowen is shutting down your own "matchup nightmare".

His teammates haven't done their part either. You completely glossed over my argument about our perimeter d against the premier guards in the League. Are you satisfied and happy with the way we defended Tmac, Nash, Wade and Davis? And if not, do you blame Dirk for that? Basketball is not a one-man game.

Okay great, Terry can't play defense. Nice observation. Doesn't change a ing thing.

When is the last time Duncan or Garnett or Jordan or Kobe or any other superstar played like and everybody glossed over it and said "Well despite that fact that he only shot 4 for 16 and allowed a far inferior player make him their , the big problem is that his teammates didn't help him out". Those guys are going to catch for their failure because they are THE MAN on their team. Sure, a Ginobili or Pippen or whoever might get criticized for playing like as well, but if THE MAN also plays like , he's the one to shoulder the blame.

Why did Ginobili catch so much for the foul on Dirk? Because Duncan was a ing warrior out there, that's why. If Duncan scores 8 points in that game 7, nobody gives a what Ginobili did out there.

What happened in the Finals this year with LeBron? Sure, everyone admits that his supporting cast is terrible, but everyone is in agreement that LeBron could have also played much, much better.

This criticism isn't something new. EVERY star faces it, and every star handles it. But for whatever reason, whenever Mav fans hear it about their beloved Dirky, their panties get all wadded up and they find a way to make Jason Terry and Josh Howard look like Larry and Curly because God forbid we point a finger at our superstar.

[td4mvp3]

The point is, being up 3-0, should that have ever gone to 7?



He was never triple-teamed. I don't think you remember much of that series. I recall a certain lanky white guy who I don't think is even in the league anymore receiving the nickname "Germanator" because despite his lack of any discernible basketball talent, Dirk played like when he guarded him. Oh yeah, Ryan Bowen.



I'd argue that Phoenix was not better that year, that they may have had some matchup advantages but so did we, and overall the series was a push...but with a stronger performance out of Dirk and less finger pointing at Dampier, Dallas could have won that series.



So how does that explain 6'-8" Stephen Jackson and 6'-8" Udonis Haslem?



No, but having that shot available to him makes him that much more dangerous. Dirk has no semi-reliable post game to speak of that adds to his versatility.

I'm sorry but saying "Dirk is not a post player" is akin to just saying "Dirk is one dimensional". And I don't think that The Man of any team needs to be described as one dimensional.



He's supposed to hit them when it matters the most, like for instance, the closing minutes of an NBA Finals game.

Duncan is in no way a good FT shooter but have you EVER seen him miss when his team absolutely needs those points?



Dirk misses clutch FT's, Wade takes advantage of it. Wade misses clutch FT's, and Dirk...



He wasn't a spectator, but he was just one of the five out there. You need more than that out of your leader.



kings in 04, suns in 05, heat in 06, warriors in 07 were ALL winnable.

i like your arguments, but the duncan thing isn't true. game five against the pistons became horry's night because duncan kept clanking fts. game 1 against phoenix in 03 was lost because duncan couldn't hit a freethrow. freethrows and duncan just don't get along, but he is not the same shooter that dirk is so the german has little excuse.

[monosylab1k]

i like your arguments, but the duncan thing isn't true. game five against the pistons became horry's night because duncan kept clanking fts. game 1 against phoenix in 03 was lost because duncan couldn't hit a freethrow. freethrows and duncan just don't get along, but he is not the same shooter that dirk is so the german has little excuse.

yeah that's true, but I guess what I was trying to say was this - if the Spurs are down by 1 with three seconds to go, and Duncan is at the line to shoot 2 FT's in game 7 of the Finals, is there any doubt that he makes them both?

Now think of the same scenario, but with Dirk at the line...are you as confident in his ability to do it? And he's about 30% better at the line than Duncan.