Memo to NAACP: Draft Bill Cosby

[MannyIsGod]

Um, my post was not aimed at you. My ancestors had nothing to do with slavery in this country, so that is why I don't comment on it. I don't see how anyone in this day or age either benefits or suffers from slavery as much as the direct result of being poor and living in a poverty region. These factors may have been a direct result of slavery and or social caste systems from the past. I know people who were born privilaged that have blown it and people that were born dirt poor and have had very succesful lives. The funny thing about all these cases is that race or ethnicity made NO difference whatsoever. Maybe it is harder foor a poor hispanic than a poor cracker, I don't know. My point was simply that you can do whatever you want with your life. It's up to you.

And I have never denied that. Is it impossible for a minority to make something of himself? Absolutely not, and you have endless examples of the ones who have done so.

That's exactly what Bill Cosby is saying.

HOWEVER, the article above and many people put the entire onus for this in a society wide scope on the people. And that quite frankly is bull . There needs to be improvements made to the infrastructure that supports these people.

Everyone loves to dance around that and simply point the finger at people to make themselves something better.

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn, I needed a laugh and this thread provided it.

I never catagorized you as anything. I simply stated facts that the race group you belong to is in control.

Do you deny it?

And it is easier as you pointed out for well to dos to get ahead in life. Why should minorities have to struggle so much harder than non minorities (i'll use this more pc term since aparently white is no longer kosher) to get to the same point?

You know, everyone complains that they have nothing to do with their ancestors acts of slavery and discrimination, but I haven't heard one person complain about the benifits they now reap from it.

What drug are you on?

[Useruser666]

I'm not sure what your point is with this discussion. It's not like my ancestors are the Clampits or Rockefellars. Somewhere along my family tree there were poor people. They worked hard and went into business for themselves. Generation after generation kept improving things for themselves. I pay huge taxes in the Judson school district. Should my money be used in another area of town instead of the school right down the street? I don't think public schools should be favored in one part of town over another, but I believe at least some of this is due to the general under funding of the public school system. It's a problem everywhere.

But back the main topic. What should be done about it? Is there anything to be done? What can you and I do about it? Pay more taxes?

[JoeChalupa]

The USA is the land of opportunity and my grandparents came here, legally I may add, for a better life and we are still working for that goal.

GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Damn, I needed a laugh and this thread provided it.



What drug are you on?

What part of the post do you think was off base?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure what your point is with this discussion. It's not like my ancestors are the Clampits or Rockefellars. Somewhere along my family tree there were poor people. They worked hard and went into business for themselves. Generation after generation kept improving things for themselves. I pay huge taxes in the Judson school district. Should my money be used in another area of town instead of the school right down the street? I don't think public schools should be favored in one part of town over another, but I believe at least some of this is due to the general under funding of the public school system. It's a problem everywhere.

But back the main topic. What should be done about it? Is there anything to be done? What can you and I do about it? Pay more taxes?

Did you read the origional article and have you read any of the news surrounding Bill Cosby and his comments?

[Useruser666]

Did you read the origional article and have you read any of the news surrounding Bill Cosby and his comments?

Then I was refering to the sub-main topic you brought up in refernce to the article.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's hard to choose between the wondrous benefits that the 'white people' derive from being white and the notion that the 'white people' are holding down the 'non-white people.'

You know what? Life is a ing struggle for a lot of people no matter what race they are. Nowadays, here in the 21st Century, the battle is not between races but rather between those who put in the effort to improve their lot in life and those who don't. I know plenty of people of all races who pissed away their opportunities in high school and college. I've known plenty of 'white people', those with supposedly great advantages who haven't gotten one fair shake from life. I know a kid who's a high school senior in the top 10% of his class and his family is poor as dirt. Interestingly enough he is not eligible for any special consideration for admission to a university because he is a member of the privileged white race. The only way he's going to get into a decent university is on his own merit, not through his daddy's connections and certainly not on account of the color of his skin. But I know, you want to pay back historical injustice with yet more...injustice.

So spare me with your crutches and self-loathing guilt or whatever about race for you are not going to find any sympathy here.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, check it.

When Bill Cosby spoke, he said that even though crappy situations exsist, through hard work black citizens can make something of themselves.

There was a large uproar from a lot of the community because they said that many people would point to those comments and use them as an excuse to disregard the current socio-economic situations in black neighborhoods.

Guess what that article does?

Bill Cosby's comments have a lot of merrit when taken in the context that they are spoken as a motivational factor to a specific community. They are not a commentary on how to solve the overall problem in place as the article and other people in this thread have suggested they are but mearly an attempt to reach out to people in hopes of saving some.

Solutions? #1 begin a serious discussion that acknowledges how far behind these neighborhoods are and begin serious attempts are raising the standard of living and education in those neighborhoods. That would go a long way to addressing the problem.

The best way to solve any society wide problem is through education and awareness of the problem. Education will go a long way which is why I was quick to point out the differences in those schools.

More money is going to have to be poured into those neighborhoods and areas. It is an investment.

Take one look at an episode of Cops and you'll see that we are already spending money in these areas at a very high rate. Only it's in a very reactive way and not a proactive way that will yeild results.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here's a solution: look at people as individuals not as members of monolithic racial groups. That's a start.

[MannyIsGod]

It's hard to choose between the wondrous benefits that the 'white people' derive from being white and the notion that the 'white people' are holding down the 'non-white people.'

There has been "equality" in this country for all of 40 years, and thats going on the assumption that the Civil Rights acts acted like a light switch.

Do you honestly feel that the situation has come full circle and that we are all now on level ground?

You know what? Life is a ing struggle for a lot of people no matter what race they are. Nowadays, here in the 21st Century, the battle is not between races but rather between those who put in the effort to improve their lot in life and those who don't. I know plenty of people of all races who pissed away their opportunities in high school and college. I've known plenty of 'white people', those with supposedly great advantages who haven't gotten one fair shake from life. I know a kid who's a high school senior in the top 10% of his class and his family is poor as dirt. Interestingly enough he is not eligible for any special consideration for admission to a university because he is a member of the privileged white race. The only way he's going to get into a decent university is on his own merit, not through his daddy's connections and certainly not on account of the color of his skin. But I know, you want to pay back historical injustice with yet more...injustice.

So spare me with your crutches and self-loathing guilt or whatever about race for you are not going to find any sympathy here.

Ok then, explain to me why more people of color find themselves in Poverty? Why are the crime rates in their neighborhoods higher? Why are their life expectancies lower? Why are there higher rates of almost every social problems in those parts of our society?

Why Marcus?

The problem is that you guys want to use specific examples to fight the statistics of a broad problem. We all know poor white people and we all know rich minorities.

HOWEVER IT IS GOD DAMN STATISICAL FACT WRITTEN IN STONE THAT MINORITIES ARE IN A WORSE SITUATION THAN NON MINORITIES.

So, if it's not because of what I have detailed, THEN WHAT IS THE CAUSE?

[Marcus Bryant]

You know what? I don't give a . That's the honest answer.

Now if you want to couch this discussion in terms of helping poor people improve their lot in life and improve the educational opportunities of poor kids then I do care.

But as long as you want to make this about race you can go yourself and I mean that sincerely.

[MannyIsGod]

Exactly, I didn't think you'd be able to come up with another reason.

Yeah, now it's convinient to forget about race because we're on this imaginary equal ground created by anti discrimination legislation and affermative action.

The fact remains that minorities have been discriminated in this country for a very long time and while racism is becoming a thing of the past it's effects are not so quick to leave.

As I stated in this post :

When did I say there were no white people?

The fact that there are poor white people somehow invalidates the arguement that hundreds of years of inequality has not be equalized?

The fact is that I think racism is at an all time low, and what we have now is classism, based on how much money you have. The thing is, because of the opression minoritiys have endured in this country, they aren't on the same level as most anglos. If you were a poor white person, then you are in the same boat,but the fact remains that the ruling majority of this country are dispraportionatly white men.

Which I then backed up the stats I posted.

Yes marcus, I am for helping all poor people, not just mexicans or any other minority. I am against Aff. Action, and you know that as well.

But there is a reason for those poverty stats, and that needs to be taken into account.

[Marcus Bryant]

If being white is the ticket to success why are Asian-Americans traditionally overrepresented at US universities? Hmmm.

As for your poverty stats first off what proportion of those are immigrants?

[Marcus Bryant]

The fact remains that minorities have been discriminated in this country for a very long time and while racism is becoming a thing of the past it's effects are not so quick to leave.

Here's another fact: a lot of "anglos" weren't born with any advantages at all. Interestingly none of the benefits they are supposed to enjoy due to their 'whiteness' have appeared.

If you want to know what is keeping people poor then yes, the lack of a quality K-12 education is a good place to start.

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, I'd like it explained to me how I am oppressing the "minorities" today.

Thanks.

[Useruser666]

Also, I'd like it explained to me how I am oppressing the "minorities" today.

Thanks.

Manny I just don't understand what your getting at then.

Yes, we should improve education for everyone.
Yes, that education should be of equal quality and avalibilty.

I agree with all of that. But what are you getting at? You keep mentioning race as some sort of determining factor for success. As long as you believe that then you're the one who will be put down. I don't want to be treated differently, and I sure as don't treat anyone differently because of their race, beliefs, or background. When you go out as an Elf will you only give presents to minorities? Of course not, it's based on poverty not color. That is they way any supportive actions that need to be taken, should be taken.

[Marcus Bryant]

White's make up 8.2 of the percentage of people under the poverty line.

Race/Ethnicity
White, not Hispanic 15,902 8.2
Black alone or in combination* 9,108 24.3
Black alone 8,781 24.4
Hispanic origin+ 9,051 22.5
Asian alone or in combination* 1,527 11.8
Asian alone 1,401 11.8

And you think this has nothing to do with things Hook and User?

http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/irp/faqs/faq...vtab03-one.htm

That's an incorrect reading of the table. That is 8.2% of "whites" are under that arbitrary poverty line.

In absolute terms 'whites' make up the largest racial group among the poor.

This doesn't change your general point since 'non-whites' are more likely to fall under that poverty line (24.4% of "Black" and 22.5% of "Hispanic"), but I think this is a worthwhile clarification.

Of interest is the rather low poverty rate among Asian-Americans. Certainly Asian-Americans as a group have experienced historical discrimination yet their incidence of poverty (11.8%) is half that of African-and Hispanic-Americans and just slightly more than the 'white' poverty rate.

According to Census Bureau estimates about 68% of those under the poverty line are "white."

[MannyIsGod]

You guys have missed every single point I've made and interpreted it completely off.

so once again I pose this and await an answer that makes sense.

Ok then, explain to me why more people of color find themselves in Poverty? Why are the crime rates in their neighborhoods higher? Why are their life expectancies lower? Why are there higher rates of almost every social problems in those parts of our society?

[MannyIsGod]

That's an incorrect reading of the table. That is 8.2% of "whites" are under that arbitrary poverty line.

In absolute terms 'whites' make up the largest racial group among the poor.

This doesn't change your general point since 'non-whites' are more likely to fall under that poverty line (24.4% of "Black" and 22.5% of "Hispanic"), but I think this is a worthwhile clarification.

Of interest is the rather low poverty rate among Asian-Americans. Certainly Asian-Americans as a group have experienced historical discrimination yet their incidence of poverty (11.8%) is half that of African-and Hispanic-Americans and just slightly more than the 'white' poverty rate.

According to Census Bureau estimates about 68% of those under the poverty line are "white."

When I first read this I misunderstood the figures you were giving but it's pretty clear now.

[MannyIsGod]

If being white is the ticket to success why are Asian-Americans traditionally overrepresented at US universities? Hmmm.

As for your poverty stats first off what proportion of those are immigrants?

I never said being white is a ticket to success. What I've said time in and time out is that statisticaly minorities have a more difficult time succeeding in this country due in large part to the policies that had been in place for a very long time.

For Hispanics, I'd imagine a good percentage of them are of immigrant nature which would render them much less valid in this argument.

However, that being said, it would also serve to know when the immigration took place to see how long they have been in this country.

For African Americans I'd imagine that there would be a very LOW, perhaps even negligble, immigration influence on those numbers.

[MannyIsGod]

Here's another fact: a lot of "anglos" weren't born with any advantages at all. Interestingly none of the benefits they are supposed to enjoy due to their 'whiteness' have appeared.

If you want to know what is keeping people poor then yes, the lack of a quality K-12 education is a good place to start.

Once again, I never said being white automaticaly gives you a silver spoon in your mouth. Saying that minorities have a more difficult time overall than anglo's means that in a General sense that is the case, but not in every specific case.

It's like this. African Americans has a higher chance of getting sickle cell anemia than any other racial group. That doesn't mean a white person can't get it.

Hispanics have a higher chance of devloping diabeties, that doesn't mean a white person can't develop the disease.

Minorities have a larger chance of being poor and facing barriers torwards success, that doesn't mean white people can't be poor.

[Guru of Nothing]

You dodged the Asian-American anomaly Manny.

[MannyIsGod]

Sigh, I feel as though I'm sounding like a broken record and I think I'm being very clear here.

Manny I just don't understand what your getting at then.

Yes, we should improve education for everyone.
Yes, that education should be of equal quality and avalibilty.

Good, what's so hard to understand about that?

[quote]

I agree with all of that. But what are you getting at? You keep mentioning race as some sort of determining factor for success.
[quote]

WRONG. I am mentioning it as a contributing factor. And if you don't think it is, then kindly explain the figures.

[quote]
As long as you believe that then you're the one who will be put down. I don't want to be treated differently, and I sure as don't treat anyone differently because of their race, beliefs, or background. When you go out as an Elf will you only give presents to minorities?
[quote]

No but I guarntee you the vast majority of those recieving those gifts will be...you guessed it, minorities.

Of course not, it's based on poverty not color.

No, not entirely. Partialy? Not on color persay but perhaps on the actions that were undertaken those of color? Once again, if you disagree on this, explain to me those numbers and why minorities suffer higher poverty levels.

That is they way any supportive actions that need to be taken, should be taken.

Look, it's this simple for me.

There is a problem called poverty which effects people of color disproportionatly (See, this mexican can't learn to spell). I believe this is a direct result from slavery and other discrimination activities that have very recently stopped.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Give me other theorys, I'm willing to listen.

[MannyIsGod]

You dodged the Asian-American anomaly Manny.

Were asians effected in a large way by slavery?

Were asians as large a part of this country or has there been more recent surges in immigration after the civil rights acts?

I don't know, and I can try to find out, but I don't have all the answers.