G O D . . .

[Summers]

I can understand how a lot of people are turned off by those who take the Bible too literally.

I think the Bible has replaced true spirituality for a lot of people

I agree with this. I also think a lot of fundamentalist Christians go through the motions of being a "good Christian" and forget the point of spirituality.

And Theroc5, what 300 fulfilled prophecies are you talking about? I respectfully disagree with your assertion.

[Soul_Patch]

Basically my beliefs can be summed up by saying Nature is the Law. I believe in Science most of all. And i believe Science would say that a "god" is not necessarily provable.


but then again, who made science...


Sort of like a phrase repeated in an old song i used to listen to back in my "drug hazed" days.


Its inconceivable to think that time had a begining, but it is equally inconcievable to think that it didn't.


so in short...who the knows. I know Science and Nature can prove to me how certain things happen, if there is anything bigger than that, ill wait and see i suppose.


Good thing about it is, if i just live by what i feel is morally correct, i think ill do ok, even if there is an afterlife. No church or man that ordained himself closer to god than i is going to change that.

I also have a very strong disdain for organized religion. I believe that it takes a weak will to have to rely on a religion to give yourself a feeling of self purpose and worth.

enjoy your life, be a good person, and let "god" do the rest, if it is to be. My wife, who is fairly religious, made me think of a very good point recently. And that is, why not believe? If it isnt true, well it isnt true, and you will find out when you die...but why not give yourself that comfort of faith...good point really...beacause to be quite honest...im scared of death...but with that viewpoint...beleif...its a little less scary now isnt it?



thats just randomness...i have a few decent books that really do a lot to state my place better than i.

Its

[theroc5]

Basically my beliefs can be summed up by saying Nature is the Law. I believe in Science most of all. And i believe Science would say that a "god" is not necessarily provable.


but then again, who made science...


Sort of like a phrase repeated in an old song i used to listen to back in my "drug hazed" days.


Its in conceivable to think that time had a begining, but it is equally inconcievable to think that it didn't.


so in short...who the knows. I know Science and Nature can prove to me how certain things happen, if there is anything bigger than that, ill wait and see i suppose.


Good thing about it is, if i just live by what i feel is morally correct, i think ill do ok, even if there is an afterlife. No church or man that ordained himself closer to god than i is going to change that.

I also have a very strong disdain for organized religion. I believe that it takes a weak will to have to rely on a religion to give yourself a feeling of self purpose and worth.

enjoy your life, be a good person, and let "god" do the rest, if it is to be.



thats just randomness...i have a few decent books that really do a lot to state my place better than i.

Its

But if God says no man is good and nothing is good but him, then we cant be a good person. If as he says we are as dirty as unclean rags then we arent good right? Like ive said earlyer, God says all liars, theives, murderers ect. wil have there part in the lake of fire. He says we all fall short.
Have you lusted? Then to him you have commited adultery, have you hated? b/c to him you have commited murder. Have you lied? Then your a liar. Doesnt matter how many times you lied, if you lied then your a liar. How many murders does it take to be called a murderer? See my point? Were not good at all. God knew that, so thats Why Jesus did what he did on the cross.

[theroc5]

Also I just thought I would put this out there...
We have a lot of the original scrolls, dead sea scrolls ect. It all basically states the same thing. Just thought I'd share that!

[Soul_Patch]

But if God says no man is good and nothing is good but him, then we cant be a good person. If as he says we are as dirty as unclean rags then we arent good right? Like ive said earlyer, God says all liars, theives, murderers ect. wil have there part in the lake of fire. He says we all fall short.
Have you lusted? Then to him you have commited adultery, have you hated? b/c to him you have commited murder. Have you lied? Then your a liar. Doesnt matter how many times you lied, if you lied then your a liar. How many murders does it take to be called a murderer? See my point? Were not good at all. God knew that, so thats Why Jesus did what he did on the cross.

In my opinion these thoughts and ideas are construed by man over many MANY years to put fear into people to conform and be scared to act as an individual. It was a method of control used by the educated, to keep control of the uneducated.

These are the kind of confounds i dislike and do not agree with. I think if there is a god persay, there should be no reason to fear it, nor do i believe it would be that judgemental.

[Soul_Patch]

That is also why i think the bible should never ever be taken literal, as it was written by man...


i personally think of it as a book of fables used to guide generations morals. Sure there were probably all these people, but their divinity isnt proven, and for all we know, they have nothing to do with real christianity.

[theroc5]

I agree with this. I also think a lot of fundamentalist Christians go through the motions of being a "good Christian" and forget the point of spirituality.

And Theroc5, what 300 fulfilled prophecies are you talking about? I respectfully disagree with your assertion.

Hey! Yes the 300 fulfilled prophecies I speak of are the over 300 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled on who the messiah would be. See in the Old Testament there were over 300 prophecies (predictions) on who the messiah (savior) would be. This was written hundreds of years before Jesus. These prophecies were such as He would be in davids blood line. Be born In Bethlehem. Speak in parables. Missions will include Gentiles. Will be pierced in the side. Theres a certain time period that it has to be in ect....Theres over 300 of these types of predictions that Jesus Fulfilled!

Oh and I respectively disagree. Christian fundamentalist pray, reflect on God as much as the next guy. Its just we use the Bible as the word of God.

[theroc5]

Example
Messiah would...
1. Be Born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2
( “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”)

2. A King on Donkey Zechariah 9:9
( “ Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.)

3. Betrayed for 30 Pieces of Silver....Zech 11:12
( Then I said to them, “If it is agreeable to you, give me my wages; and if not, refrain.” So they weighed out for my wages thirty pieces of silver.)

4. Temple Potter ect...Zech 11:13 (And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—that princely price they set on me. So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD for the potter.)

5. He will have wounds in his hands Zech 13:6( And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’[a] Then he will answer, ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.’)

6. He would have no defense yet be innocent Isaiah 53:7
( He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.)

7. Died with the wicked yet buried with the rich Isaiah 53:9
(And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.)

8. Be Crucified Psalms 22:16
(For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced[a] My hands and My feet

Chances of this happening to one person is 1:10,000
over
1:10 to the 28
NOW THINK ABOUT 300 prophecies...what are the chances?

[Soul_Patch]

we use the Bible as the word of God.

I believe this is where you guys fall short.


I have a good friend who i worked with previously She would also consider herself "christian fundamentalist" Her and i are soooo much different it is amazing that we are such good friends.

[Soul_Patch]

you might be her...haha for all i know.

[theroc5]

That is also why i think the bible should never ever be taken literal, as it was written by man...


i personally think of it as a book of fables used to guide generations morals. Sure there were probably all these people, but their divinity isnt proven, and for all we know, they have nothing to do with real christianity.

Its like this...We write through a pen to the paper right? God uses us as instruments to write his word. You can tell that it is the word of God after you examine the Prophecies, History, lack of contradictions ect. Not to mention that the Bible was written by 40 different people over periods of time yet it remains so cohesive and states the same thing.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

[dallaskd]

You may not know all the answers and you never will. You just gotta have faith. You dont have to question everything.

[Soul_Patch]

You may not know all the answers and you never will. You just gotta have faith. You dont have to question everything.

Very good quote, and one i have really tried to live by lately. It doesnt really do any harm to just have faith.

[theroc5]

In my opinion these thoughts and ideas are construed by man over many MANY years to put fear into people to conform and be scared to act as an individual. It was a method of control used by the educated, to keep control of the uneducated.

These are the kind of confounds i dislike and do not agree with. I think if there is a god persay, there should be no reason to fear it, nor do i believe it would be that judgemental.

again if it were written by men then how could all of the prophecies come into place and come true. How could 40 different writters be so cohesive? How could its predicitons of the final days start looking like what we see on the news everyday? I'd much rather put my faith in this then the fable of people writting stories so people will act good.

[theroc5]

you might be her...haha for all i know.

nope ima dude lol

[Soul_Patch]

again if it were written by men then how could all of the prophecies come into place and come true. How could 40 different writters be so cohesive? How could its predicitons of the final days start looking like what we see on the news everyday? I'd much rather put my faith in this then the fable of people writting stories so people will act good.

If you make a broad enough statement, it is bound to become the truth eventually.


If i said, within a fortnight bluesky will become black!


then all the sudden there was a rain storm one day...would i be a prohpet? or would i just be some guy stating the obvious?

[theroc5]

One more time I will say this but I just wana make sure every one is clear on it.
We are sinners as you can see from the previous conversations that we all fall short. We send our selves to b/c we are law brakers and we are not good. We all lie, steal, cheat, lust ect. So we need a savior. the bible gave over 300 prophecies on who that savior would be in the old testament. Jesus fulfilled all of them. He was put on the cross fully human yet fully God and died for our sins to rise 3 days later. He conquerd sin and death. And we are made good through him. And that If you confess that Jesus is lord and believe that God raised him from the dead you will be saved(romans 10:9)
We then are baptized by the Holy Spirit and if we truly did this we will crave his word and to praise him. We then will be fruitful.

Ok now that I got that clear I think im going to finally go work out lol Ive been caught up with so many threads here and bigsoccer.com that I forgot I was supposed to be at the gym 3 hrs ago.LOL
Oh and my I suggest everyone check out wayofthemaster.com (kirk cameron)

Thanks for listening or reading lol

[theroc5]

If you make a broad enough statement, it is bound to become the truth eventually.


If i said, within a fortnight bluesky will become black!


then all the sudden there was a rain storm one day...would i be a prohpet? or would i just be some guy stating the obvious?

Be Born in Bethlehem, be in davids blood line, Be Crucified (there was no crucifiction when this was wrote), he had to be in a certian blood line ect...these dont sound to broad to me.

[Soul_Patch]

except that how many people were named david back then?

[theroc5]

except that how many people were named david back then?

I think what would be a better question to ask is how many Kings named david that ruled Israel are there back then?

He was a descendant from David's lineage.... Mary was the daugther of Heli who was a descendant of Nathan the son of David. Joseph was the son of Jacob, who was a descendant of Solomon... the son of David... there is purity in this lineage...

[Mr. Peabody]

Be Born in Bethlehem, be in davids blood line, Be Crucified (there was no crucifiction when this was wrote), he had to be in a certian blood line ect...these dont sound to broad to me.

Wasn't he in David's bloodline through Joseph though? Does this really count?

[theroc5]

Wasn't he in David's bloodline through Joseph though? Does this really count?

He was a descendant from David's lineage.... Mary was the daugther of Heli who was a descendant of Nathan the son of David. Joseph was the son of Jacob, who was a descendant of Solomon... the son of David... there is purity in this lineage...


This is what my friend had to say...
It's important to know that Jesus decended through Mary's line because she was of the line of David thru, "Nathan". If Joseph had been his natural/biological father He would have been disqualified because Joseph was decended from David through Solomon, whose line was disqualified because of the "Jeconian" curse. Thus, Mary being a Virgin and Jesus being conceived through the Holy Spirit; He was eligible for the throne of David.

[clambake]

adam and eve

[Soul_Patch]

Once upon a time
When the world was just a pancake
Fears would arise
That if you went too far, you'd fall

But with the
Passage of time
It all became more of a ball
We're as sure of that
As we all once were when the world was flat

So I wonder this
As life billows smoke inside my head
This little game
Where nothing is sure (oh)

Why would you play by the rules?
Who did, you did, you
Who did, you did, you

When was it killed
The very last dodo bird
And was she aware
She was the very last one

So I wonder this
As life billows smoke inside my head
This little game
Where nothing is sure (oh)

Why would you play by the rules?
Who did, you did, you
Who did, you did, you
You say who did, you did, you

If all the things that you are saying now
Were true enough but still what is all the worrying about
We can work it out
We can work it out
Oh I wonder this
As life billows smoke inside my head
This little game
Where nothing is sure (oh)

Why would you play by the rules?
Who did, you did, you
Who did, you did, you
You say who did, you did, you

Great Song and Lyrics Roc...i think you should have a listen and maybe take it to heart?

[peewee's lovechild]

In the words of the great John Lennon:

"God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain.

I'll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain."