Reply With Quote
And I say what our guards do individually is not as important as what they do collectively, and collectively they are the best rotation in the N B A, already.
Parker will crank up, but how much? His shooting % will go up obviously, but will he hit threes or get to the line? Will he make his FTs? If he doesnt then his 45% shooting is not efficient.I thought you said we had to be a top 5 offensive team? And more importantly, I thought I said we would be...We are number 6 now...and Paker is just now getting it cranked up...you contradict yourself.
Oh, and as Parker increases his scoring, Manu likely becomes less efficient and consistent on offense. His all around game is nice, but there might be a time where he starts 'defering' and getting back to 13ppg of last season.
And yes the Spurs need to be a top 5 offensive team to win 65+.
For them to sustain this, Parker and or Ginobili need to pick up the scoring consistency. (Parker the efficiency, and Ginobili the consistency).
And I say what our guards do individually is not as important as what they do collectively, and collectively they are the best rotation in the N B A, already.
We should wait until the Spurs are 36-5 before we start speculating on if they can win 69-70 games.
Tony looks like he is starting to get into a groove. That will make the Spurs almost unstoppable on offense. 36-5 is very attainable.
They are good, but good enough? I would rather them be more consistent scorers before I proclaim as being the best in the NBA right now. They are up there collectively, but I think Parker and Ginobili need to be consistent for this team to be great.
No one is saying the Spurs will win 69 games...at least I'm not. Just speculating on the possibilities...and Nikos keeps strutting out here and acting like he is making a long shot prediction by saying we won't reach a win total only 3 teams in history have reached.
What I am saying is that the team cannot win 70. No chance IMO. Zero.and Nikos keeps strutting out here and acting like he is making a long shot prediction by saying we won't reach a win total only 3 teams in history have reached.
This isn't a guard or perimeter oriented team like the previous teams that have won 69 games have been...Any historical precedent for a 69 win team would not be a valid way of analyzing this teams chances.
It's not as important for individual guards to put up huge numbers on this team, this team has Tim Duncan. What's essential is a certain amount of production out of our back court...we'll get it..matter of fact we will probably not have enough minutes to go around for all the guards we do have. So, no the biggest obstacle for this team putting up that type of win total is not our offense or our guard play...it's health and fatigue and just plain desire to win that many. Open your eyes.
If this team wants to become unstoppable, and win a le, and be considered one of the better champions of the recent NBA history, they need Parker and or Ginobili to become consistent and efficient scorers. Its simple really.It's not as important for individual guards to put up huge numbers on this team, this team has Tim Duncan. What's essential is a certain amount of production out of our back court...we'll get it..matter of fact we will probably not have enough minutes to go around for all the guards we do have. So, no the biggest obstacle for this team putting up those types of win totals is not our offense or our guard play...it's health and fatigue and just plain desire to win that many. Open your eyes.
Oh and before you go nuts, the Spurs can win a le without becoming a GREAT regular season team or Parker and Ginobili becoming all stars when the playoffs start.
But to be become a GREAT champion, one of the better ones of the past 15-20 years, they need the starting guards to become more consistent, and efficient scoring the basketball. Do you really think the team can be unstoppable with Parker and Ginobili playing nearly the same as last season?
Unstoppable as in winning 65 games and winning the le convincingly this season.
They are pretty efficient scorers, even based on previous seasons...maybe not in terms of PPG, but in terms of shooting PCT...and Barry is ultra efficient, he's been the most efficient guard in the NBA at various times in the past. You are on crack if you think we are going to have a starting backcourt shoot 50% or something like that....
This team doesn't ask for big production out of any 1 guard so I don't know what you are expecting from them.
Right now Manu is extremely efficient. He and Wade are at the top of the list in PPS for guards...actually I think even the NBA. Right up there with Shaq.You are on crack if you think we are going to have 2 guards shoot 50% or something like that.
With Manu its consistency, limited turnovers, and finding ways to score 15+ more consistently. That way he does not defer too much and is used to scoring big when Parker, the support, or even Duncan might be off. So far so good earlier in the season. But he has been off a bit lately. But thats being a little picky. As a third option he has been awesome.
As far as Parker goes. I do not want him to shoot 50% per se. The problem as I said is he NEVER gets to the line for the frequency he drives the lane. Change that, he is in efficient as a FT shooter and attempter relative to his shot attempts. Also he does not hit three pointers.
Tell me who has been more efficient thus far this season? Parker who took 40+ more shots, but yet has 30 less points than Manu? Simple. Manu has been more efficient.
Does that mean anything? It just means Parker can do better. And he will. But HOW much is up to him. He needs to at least get back to the level of 0203 as far as scoring efficiency. Go check out his numbers, the amount of threes he took, and the fact he shot reasonable from the line. And you will understand what I mean by efficiency.
Better yet, look on basketball reference at the PSA stat.
Oh and as for Barry......I expect him to pick up his efficiency a lot. Even though he won't take as many shots or use as many possesions as Parker or Manu.
, Tony shot threes better as a 19 year old, I don't know why you are expecting his numbers to stay low...and the fact that they have been low to this point has not prevented us from getting off to the kind of start necessary for a historical win total. Technically, if he had been shooting better it would have just been gravy up to this point. Tony is a pretty effiicent scorer, about the only part of his scoring that isn't efficient is his FT shooting, so I'd just as soon he not be going to the line...not that he has control over that anyway, Tony gets jobbed by the refs frequently.
Dude, we hear you, manu and parker . . . consistent.
So please tell us what consistent is:
You said you are OK with Manu being a 15 / 5 / 5 type player. Well, he is exactly that after 19 games. To me it sounds pretty consistent for a guy who plays 28 minutes and only shoots 8 -10 shots per game.
He only had two "bad" scoring games, where he scored 6 points. All 17 other games he scored in double figures with a number of games scoring +20 ppg.
So what else do you want from the guy. In this team, it will be difficult for him to score more than that. I know he is capable of averaging 18 ppg. But not in this Spurs team, where you have so many guys who score and where Manu is the third option.
Efficiency is not his problem right now. TOs . . . maybe. In all other departments, he is doing just fine.
And Tony, after a cold start, is beginning to feel the grove. His "efficiency" is going up. So for the Spurs to end up in the low 60s, even 65, is doable. To win more than 65 is going to be nearly impossible, but hey, stop being such a pessimistic !
Tony is not nearly as efficient as he COULD be. He is a better shooter than this, and he can get to the line and convert better than he did last season and so far this season. 2002-03 was evidence. That was his best scoring year in terms of efficiency. Sure he lost a bit of that and gained some leadership, but he can still become more efficient and improve his PG/leadership skills as well. 2003-04 Playoff Games 1-6 are evidence of that. Problem is when Tony's shot is off he does not compensate by getting to the line or setting up others consistently. He is capable, but has not tapped into that potential yet.Technically, if he had been shooting better it would have just been gravy up to this point. Tony is a pretty effiicent scorer, about the only part of his scoring that isn't efficient is his FT shooting, so I'd just as soon he not be going to the line...not that he has control over that anyway, Tony gets jobbed by the refs frequently.
Sure the team is winning. But it can only help for Parker and Ginobili to become more consistent and efficient on the offensive end. So far Manu has done a good job, but you wonder if he might be defering a bit or is not being as aggresive as he could be. He tends to be reckless when not in an offensive groove, moreso than usual.
I just want to see more consistency and confidence from them. I am sure, deep down inside you do too (as does everyone on this forum).
As I said, I am just worried about Manu defering too much and becoming less effective as a scorer. I mean his scoring is dropping daily, and his turnovers are even growing. I just do not want that to be a trend.And Tony, after a cold start, is beginning to feel the grove. His "efficiency" is going up. So for the Spurs to end up in the low 60s, even 65, is doable. To win more than 65 is going to be nearly impossible, but hey, stop being such a pessimistic !
If we are talking third option, Manu is as good as anyone in the league right now. And as a second option he has even been solid. But I just do not like the fact he is content with scoring 6-8pts on some nights, and only putting up 7 or 8 shots.
You are ed now Nikos...Smeagol has been unleashed upon your azzzzzzzzzzzzz. It's time you jump on the 65 win bandwagon.
Smegma?
I think you have a point. In the past, the Spurs have sometimes struggled because nobody could step up and reliably score when Tim Duncan played poorly. Parker stepped up some of the time, but he would also disappear for stretches. I think it's way to early to declare that Manu and Parker have magically found the consistency necessary for the Spurs to win 65 games and a le.
We know that Tony hasn't. It's not certain that Manu has. We'll simply have to wait and see. Has this team improved enough to survive a 4 for 12 shooting performance by Duncan in the playoffs? The next few months will reveal the answer to that.
Sure I would like Manu to hit some more threes, or be little bit more aggressive (especially laytely). But, you tell me, how many third options who get 8-10 touches per night, score 15 ppg?
That's me!Smegma?
That's not the real question though. The question is this: can Parker and Manu provide that Kobe/Billups (to use the Lakers and Pistons example) perimeter threat when Tim struggles offensively? We know that they can both score points, but can they step up exactly when they are needed and take some of the pressure off of Duncan?
It didn't happen when it needed to in the playoffs last season. At least it didn't happen as much as it needed to. Teams are going to key in on Duncan. That's no surprise. Will Parker and Manu have the ability to do that in the playoffs? Consistency during the regular season will provide us some insight into the answer to that question. So we'll have to wait and see.
That is NOT the argument. The point is Manu is settling himself into a third option. And if TP is the second option who is not scoring efficiently and consistently himself -- then we have a problem. Even if Manu scores well it probably won't matter, because he will see himself as the "third option".Sure I would like Manu to hit some more threes, or be little bit more aggressive (especially laytely). But, you tell me, how many third options who get 8-10 touches per night, score 15 ppg?
Ideally I would like Manu and TP to share the role in some respects, with TP probably taking the more difficult shots with the shot clock winding down. But I do not like the way he cannot shoot the 3 lately, and does not get to the line.
Manu thus far has done his part and then some.
I just hope they can do well come playoff time. But they can attain a certain level of consistency and confidence, NOW int he regular season. They shouldn't have to guess who is going to fill what role in the playoffs. They should have the confidence going into it, that either can get 15-16pts efficiently in big games.
BTW -- if Duncan shoots 4-12, than it probably does not matter what Manu and TP do that much. Certaintly the Spurs won't be dominant if Duncan doesn't step up in nearly every big game. I think he underacheived a bit in the 04 Laker series -- REGARDLESS of perimeter players missing shots. It had something to do with it, but its not the sole reason for his subpar play.
Agreed with Brodels. We will have to wait and see. I'm hopefull that Manu and Tony will be there when the Spurs will need them the most. Hope Barry will be there too.
Sorry to piss on all the connosieruship of fine offense within this thread but one has only to look at the 99-00 Lakers to see I am right and all who question me are wrong.
It most certainly is possible for us to win 69-70 games if our offense remains at this level and doesn't improve one iota. I'm not saying it's going to happen..because it probably won't but to be able to pinpoint the reason why as some kind of lack of consistency in our guards is false blame.
And Manu can pull the heat off of Duncan.
And I don't know what's so efficient about Kobe shooting 43-44% from the field in the playoffs...Derek Fisher shooting 50, 60,70% from three or guys like Rick Fox hitting at near 50% etc...I can see your point....but 43% is 43% I don't care how good he looks shooting it. And exactly what dominant big was Chauncy helping? Rasheed?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
