So . . . why hasn't Mahinmi been signed?

[whottt]

I couldn't find anything about it at the salary cap faq one way or another.

Has there been an example of it before?

I would think the players union would raise over a backdoor cir vention of union salaries and benefits for drafted players who haven't been renounced, while the league would view it as cir venting the salary cap.

It's not cir venting anything really...the teams goal is to get them to the NBA...they can't bring them up without signing them. They aren't cir venting the cap or anything any more than if the guy plays in Europe for a year.


How is this any different than if the guy goes to Europe for a year?


Because the Spurs own the team?


I mean the Spurs basically put Mahinimi and Sanikidze where they wanted them already....last year.

They refused to sign them and told them to get better...

How is this any different?

[whottt]

See..there are different rules for European and American players...correct?


Isn't this true?

[whottt]

I just don't see why the Spurs would by a d-league team to develop a guy they are going to cut before the season(White).

If they bought it for one guy...they must be a high on that guy.

[whottt]

I know the rules are different....

American can players can't be drafted until they've been out of highschool for at least a year or something like that...and the Euros don't have that restriction...they have like a 19 year old age limit or something.

There's probably a loophole in there somewhere.

[whottt]

To me it looks like the NBA would rather guys develop in their development league than in Europe...to maintain the gap...I think that's why they created it.

[Kori Ellis]

I would think that maybe they can sign on the DLeague team, but then they wouldn't be eligible to be called up or something for the season.

Because I would think they can't send them up and down throughout the season unless they are signing them (particularly first rounders because of the salary scale).

There's probably a specific rule for this but I looked in the actual collective bargaining agreement and I didn't see it.

[whottt]

I would think that maybe they can sign on the DLeague team, but then they wouldn't be eligible to be called up or something for the season.

Unless the Spurs sign them at some point during the season...at which point they take a slot, count against the cap...etc.

Because I would think they can't send them up and down throughout the season unless they are signing them (particularly first rounders because of the salary scale).

I agree..and that's why I don't think the NBA would have a problem with it...

Once they bring them up...they get draft pick benefits etc.


Until they bring them up though...I don't see why they couldn't play there to develop.

There's probably a specific rule for this but I looked in the actual collective bargaining agreement and I didn't see it.

Without having squat legal knowledge...my instinct is that any thing that s the Euroleague over and keeps them behind the NBA, is going to be something the NBA likes.


IF they count a slot once they get called up...there is no unfair advantage to it IMO...it's no different than the guy playing in Europe...except it's talent that could be in Europe that is instead in the NBA's league.

Europe is catching the NBA...they's been pushing for interleague play, partnership...the contracts in Europe are getting bigger and bigger...players are actually choosing to stay there...

The whole purpose of the D-league is stop that IMO.

[Kori Ellis]

Well I think the issue with a first rounder signing with the DLeague and then being called up is that they are guaranteed X amount of dollars in their first NBA season. So unless there's something like .. if you are called up you will be paid your NBA salary retroactively from the start of the season or something like that, then I'm not sure how it would work.

[whottt]

Well I think the issue with a first rounder signing with the DLeague and then being called up is that they are guaranteed X amount of dollars in their first NBA season. So unless there's something like .. if you are called up you will be paid your NBA salary retroactively from the start of the season or something like that, then I'm not sure how it would work.

I see no problem with that...I don't see that as an obstacle.


I am just not quite sure how it works...I just know teams draft European players all the time and don't sign them for years...including first rounders. Doesn't seem to matter where htye play until they get signed...as long as it's not for another NBA team.


I can't see any reason the NBA would penalize their own development league to encourage teams to leave their players in Europe.

[Kori Ellis]

Another question, you think guys like Mahinmi, Sanikidze, etc would be willing to start the year in DLeague making $2,000 a month rather than overseas making $50K a month?

[whottt]

Justin Williams did it...

[whottt]

Didn't Devin too?

[Kori Ellis]

Justin and Devin weren't drafted. I don't know if a first round pick who hasn't made his NBA money will just suck it up and take 2-3K a month.

[whottt]

The more I think about it the more I could see this being up to the two parties...

Yoiu can't force the player to do it if he doesn't want to do it...but it could be a way for them to reach the NBA more quickly...and that is usually their ultimate goal.


I don't see why it couldn't work that way...if the team stalls too long the kid will just go to Europe.

[whottt]

Justin and Devin weren't drafted. I don't know if a first round pick who hasn't made his NBA money will just suck it up and take 2-3K a month.

Yeah but that wasn't what you asked...you asked if guys would play in the D-league when they could be in Europe making 50k a month...


And players have elected to play in the D-league over Europe...I know for certain Justin Williams did.


Just depends on the guy and how bad he wants to play in the NBA...

I could very much see this being up to the player himself over where he wants to develop.


Team can't force him to do it...at the same time, he might get to the NBA faster if he does it.

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah but that wasn't what you asked...you asked if guys would play in the D-league when they could be in Europe making 50k a month...


And players have elected to play in the D-league over Europe...I know for certain Justin Williams did.

A lot of players have chosen DLeague or CBA when they could have gone to Europe. But I don't know if Mahinmi would.

[whottt]

You know...playing in Europe doesn't always guarantee PT...playing in the d-league will.

[whottt]

A lot of players have chosen DLeague or CBA when they could have gone to Europe. But I don't know if Mahinmi would.

I don't think Mahinimi was real happy about the minutes he got in Europe...but you are right, I don't know if he would or not...he sure does seem like he wants to be in the NBA and be a Spur though.

[Kori Ellis]

You know...playing in Europe doesn't always guarantee PT...playing in the d-league will.

Yeah I know. But there's big difference too ... bus rides and DLeague money might not bother some guys compared jet rides, taxfree money, condos and cars provided by Euroleague teams, etc.

To me, if a player is confident enough they are going to get called up - they should pick DLeague.

[whottt]

Let's look at what we do know...

#1. You don't have to have an NBA contract to play in the D-league. Whether this applies to draft picks or not, we don't know. But you don't have to if you are just Joe player...and teams can reccomend unsigned and undrafted players they are interested in play there....and they can even put them on their affiliated teams...with no NBA contract.


I can't see any rationale for if the guy says...I want to play for the Toros instead of Europe...and the NBA would go..no, you can't...only if you are undrafted.


#2. Teams don't have to sign draft picks right away.

#3. Drafted players go to Europe to develop all the time...with no NBA contract...and sometimes probably even play for the team that is reccomended by the team that drafted them.



Anything else?


You know...Ludden could probably get the answer to this.

[Russ]

Does anyone think Mahinmi's injury was a sham to hide the Spurs' intentions with him and to feature Jackie?

Hmmmm, me neither.

[whottt]

The more I think about it...the more I am convinced it's up to the player.

Which means the Spurs could have one of a D-league team this year.

[timvp]

The NBA's player union would go buck wild if the NBDL became a place where teams could "force" first round picks to sign. A team could tell a first round pick that they aren't going to sign them and either sign in the NBDL or go to Europe. The only recourse a player has would be to sit out a year. Who many players would be willing to do that?

But let's say for example that Mahinmi signs with the Toros. Could he stay there for two or three years making $2K a month? And then when the Spurs sign him, do they have two more years to send him to the NBDL?

It actually makes sense for the NBA. You could use the NBDL exactly how MLB uses the minor leagues. Teams would stash all late first round picks and second rounders on their NBDL team. They could pay them peanuts as they decide whether they are worth anything.

But the players' association wouldn't go for it. That'd be a huge change in the current system. It'd take some bargaining to get rules in place regarding that. For example, I could see that eventually a player can be assigned to the NBDL without using an NBA roster spot ... but you have to pay them half of the amount they are due on the rookie scale. Plus players would need some option to become a free agent instead of staying in the NBDL for years.

The question I have right now is how it'll work out for next season. From what I can tell, it's not really covered anywhere. I don't think anyone in the league has tried to use the NBDL like the Spurs could potentially use it. My guess is that all of the ways we've come up with to cir vent the traditional rules are not allowed.

I'd be shocked if Mahinmi or even someone like Sanikidze were allowed to play for the Toros without having a contract with the Spurs. I guess we'll see though. Pop wouldn't have been able to convince Holt to buy the Toros if they weren't going to be useful.

[whottt]

I agree...the teams can't force the player to play there if he doesn't want too...anymore than they can force them to play in Europe if they don't want too.


But if it is something that is up to the player...as an alternative to Europe...and the teams are telling their players it might help them get to the NBA quicker if they play in the NBA's minor league instead of Europe...

That thundering noise you just heard was every other team in the NBA running to get a D-league team.


Edit: and that bright light you see is David Stern's smile at his instant minor league system that the teams themselves are footing the bill for...without him having to do so.

[whottt]

The NBA's player union would go buck wild if the NBDL became a place where teams could "force" first round picks to sign. A team could tell a first round pick that they aren't going to sign them and either sign in the NBDL or go to Europe. The only recourse a player has would be to sit out a year. Who many players would be willing to do that?

But let's say for example that Mahinmi signs with the Toros. Could he stay there for two or three years making $2K a month? And then when the Spurs sign him, do they have two more years to send him to the NBDL?

It actually makes sense for the NBA. You could use the NBDL exactly how MLB uses the minor leagues. Teams would stash all late first round picks and second rounders on their NBDL team. They could pay them peanuts as they decide whether they are worth anything.

But the players' association wouldn't go for it. That'd be a huge change in the current system. It'd take some bargaining to get rules in place regarding that. For example, I could see that eventually a player can be assigned to the NBDL without using an NBA roster spot ... but you have to pay them half of the amount they are due on the rookie scale. Plus players would need some option to become a free agent instead of staying in the NBDL for years.

The question I have right now is how it'll work out for next season. From what I can tell, it's not really covered anywhere. I don't think anyone in the league has tried to use the NBDL like the Spurs could potentially use it. My guess is that all of the ways we've come up with to cir vent the traditional rules are not allowed.

I'd be shocked if Mahinmi or even someone like Sanikidze were allowed to play for the Toros without having a contract with the Spurs. I guess we'll see though. Pop wouldn't have been able to convince Holt to buy the Toros if they weren't going to be useful.

What if the player flat out says...I want to play in the d-league, not in Europe...

The NBA is going to say no? You gotta go to Europe?

I don't think they created the D-league for that purpose.