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What utter BULL . The people who did this are extremists and criminals, and DO NOT REPRESENT the vast majority of people who have concern for the environment.
I think hummers are obscene, not to mention the extra danger they and other SUVs pose to the average sedan driver or pedestrian, but I wouldn't go out and do that to someone else's property, regardless of my opinion, and nor would 99.5% of environmentally concerned citizens.
Usually I don't mind your posts, but this is just PURE IGNORANCE. Have you actually studied what human beings are doing to the planet? Do you know anything about atmospheric, oceanic or soil chemistry, about energy balances and water catchments, about environmental systemics, carrying capacity, resilience, etc etc??? NO? Well, then, STFU because you know NOTHING.
We are eating up this planet's non-renewable resources at an alarming and ever-accelerating rate, and in doing so polluting the environmental systems on which your and every other life on the planet are based, and yet you call the people who study these phenomena and try to come up with ways not to destroy our life support system, because that's exactly what "the environment" is, "dumb as ".
You know what, YOU are dumb as for saying that, and you have no idea what is really happening to the world around you. Self-obsessed, ignorant at udes like that are the problem.
Says the hypocrite teenager who doesn't even need a car yet drives an SUV which has, what, a 3.5L V6 in it?
Ever heard of a compact car with a 1.6L engine? Public transport? A bike???
I just received my latest 3-monthly electricity bill, and using behavioural change alone, reduced it by over 50% from last year, saving me $150 this quarter. In the last two years I have reduced my petrol consumption by over 70%. None of this has detrimentally affected my lifestyle one bit - in fact, I'm fitter now (from riding my bike most places) than I've been in years.
Small behavioural changes and investment in energy efficiency can lead to big savings in energy, water, AND MONEY. Check out this TV show:
http://abc.net.au/tv/carboncops/
Last week it featured four people who were living together in a house and generating 91t of CO2/yr (Australian average household - 14t/yr). Their electricity bills were $1600 a quarter, mostly because they were running a whole lot of stuff they didn't use. In a month, with minimal change to lifestyle, they reduced their total emissions by 54%, electricity use by 78% (reducing their billto around $300). Overall, under the new regime they would save $10,000 a year, not to mention the energy and emissions saving.
We are a spoiled, lazy, poorly trained generation. We assume that energy and water are limitless, and because we are distanced from power stations, we assume forget their harsh environmental impact. If we all did a little the change would be enormous. But instead, we sit around with our heads burried in the sand. Great job.
PS Cue wit who tells me to go and live in a cave and get off the net. Did you read the paragraph above? We don't have to live in caves, we just have to reduce our WASTE. And this laptop uses 90W, little more than your average conventional lightglobe, so go yourself with a dildo.
I really hate how otherwise reasonable people jump on a story like this to justify inaction on their own wasteful behaviours.
Meeeeeeeeeeeeee 2222222222222222222
before talking , do your research.What utter BULL . The people who did this are extremists and criminals, and DO NOT REPRESENT the vast majority of people who have concern for the environment.
I think hummers are obscene, not to mention the extra danger they and other SUVs pose to the average sedan driver or pedestrian, but I wouldn't go out and do that to someone else's property, regardless of my opinion, and nor would 99.5% of environmentally concerned citizens.
Usually I don't mind your posts, but this is just PURE IGNORANCE. Have you actually studied what human beings are doing to the planet? Do you know anything about atmospheric, oceanic or soil chemistry, about energy balances and water catchments, about environmental systemics, carrying capacity, resilience, etc etc??? NO? Well, then, STFU because you know NOTHING.
We are eating up this planet's non-renewable resources at an alarming and ever-accelerating rate, and in doing so polluting the environmental systems on which your and every other life on the planet are based, and yet you call the people who study these phenomena and try to come up with ways not to destroy our life support system, because that's exactly what "the environment" is, "dumb as ".
You know what, YOU are dumb as for saying that, and you have no idea what is really happening to the world around you. Self-obsessed, ignorant at udes like that are the problem.
Says the hypocrite teenager who doesn't even need a car yet drives an SUV which has, what, a 3.5L V6 in it?
Ever heard of a compact car with a 1.6L engine? Public transport? A bike???
I just received my latest 3-monthly electricity bill, and using behavioural change alone, reduced it by over 50% from last year, saving me $150 this quarter. In the last two years I have reduced my petrol consumption by over 70%. None of this has detrimentally affected my lifestyle one bit - in fact, I'm fitter now (from riding my bike most places) than I've been in years.
Small behavioural changes and investment in energy efficiency can lead to big savings in energy, water, AND MONEY. Check out this TV show:
http://abc.net.au/tv/carboncops/
Last week it featured four people who were living together in a house and generating 91t of CO2/yr (Australian average household - 14t/yr). Their electricity bills were $1600 a quarter, mostly because they were running a whole lot of stuff they didn't use. In a month, with minimal change to lifestyle, they reduced their total emissions by 54%, electricity use by 78% (reducing their billto around $300). Overall, under the new regime they would save $10,000 a year, not to mention the energy and emissions saving.
We are a spoiled, lazy, poorly trained generation. We assume that energy and water are limitless, and because we are distanced from power stations, we assume forget their harsh environmental impact. If we all did a little the change would be enormous. But instead, we sit around with our heads burried in the sand. Great job.
PS Cue wit who tells me to go and live in a cave and get off the net. Did you read the paragraph above? We don't have to live in caves, we just have to reduce our WASTE. And this laptop uses 90W, little more than your average conventional lightglobe, so go yourself with a dildo.
I really hate how otherwise reasonable people jump on a story like this to justify inaction on their own wasteful behaviours.
it is a V4 2.4L, 26ish MPG. it's honored as a low emissions car.
i walk/run back from work
i recycle cans/bottles, turn off unnecessary lights, conserve what i can.
you.
Re-posting this because no-one ever reads the bottom post on the thread, and it took 1/2 an hour, dammit.
What utter BULL . The people who did this are extremists and criminals, and DO NOT REPRESENT the vast majority of people who have concern for the environment.
I think hummers are obscene, not to mention the extra danger they and other SUVs pose to the average sedan driver or pedestrian, but I wouldn't go out and do that to someone else's property, regardless of my opinion, and nor would 99.5% of environmentally concerned citizens.
Usually I don't mind your posts, but this is just PURE IGNORANCE. Have you actually studied what human beings are doing to the planet? Do you know anything about atmospheric, oceanic or soil chemistry, about energy balances and water catchments, about environmental systemics, carrying capacity, resilience, etc etc??? NO? Well, then, STFU because you know NOTHING.
We are eating up this planet's non-renewable resources at an alarming and ever-accelerating rate, and in doing so polluting the environmental systems on which your and every other life on the planet are based, and yet you call the people who study these phenomena and try to come up with ways not to destroy our life support system, because that's exactly what "the environment" is, "dumb as ".
You know what, YOU are dumb as for saying that, and you have no idea what is really happening to the world around you. Self-obsessed, ignorant at udes like that are the problem.
Says the hypocrite teenager who doesn't even need a car yet drives an SUV which has, what, a 3.5L V6 in it?
Ever heard of a compact car with a 1.6L engine? Public transport? A bike???
I just received my latest 3-monthly electricity bill, and using behavioural change alone, reduced it by over 50% from last year, saving me $150 this quarter. In the last two years I have reduced my petrol consumption by over 70%. None of this has detrimentally affected my lifestyle one bit - in fact, I'm fitter now (from riding my bike most places) than I've been in years.
Small behavioural changes and investment in energy efficiency can lead to big savings in energy, water, AND MONEY. Check out this TV show:
http://abc.net.au/tv/carboncops/
Last week it featured four people who were living together in a house and generating 91t of CO2/yr (Australian average household - 14t/yr). Their electricity bills were $1600 a quarter, mostly because they were running a whole lot of stuff they didn't use. In a month, with minimal change to lifestyle, they reduced their total emissions by 54%, electricity use by 78% (reducing their billto around $300). Overall, under the new regime they would save $10,000 a year, not to mention the energy and emissions saving.
We are a spoiled, lazy, poorly trained generation. We assume that energy and water are limitless, and because we are distanced from power stations, we assume forget their harsh environmental impact. If we all did a little the change would be enormous. But instead, we sit around with our heads burried in the sand. Great job.
PS Cue wit who tells me to go and live in a cave and get off the net. Did you read the paragraph above? We don't have to live in caves, we just have to reduce our WASTE. And this laptop uses 90W, little more than your average conventional lightglobe, so go yourself with a dildo.
I really hate how otherwise reasonable people jump on a story like this to justify inaction on their own wasteful behaviours.
I was pointing out the fact that at 17 you have a brand new car. Ever think about how much energy, water, metals and oil it took to MAKE the car? That is called embodied energy. If you walk/run from work/school, what do you need a car for?
How many fridges in your house? How many TVs? How many lights? How many appliances sitting around on standby doing nothing and chewing through power 24/7? The people I posted about had 6 FRIDGES running:
http://abc.net.au/tv/carboncops/bettenays.htm
I'll give you some kudos if you do an electricity audit on your house. Look at your parents' electricity bills today. Count the number of electrical appliances in your house, chase down their wattage to work out what really chews electricity. Turn off everything you're not using and be diligent about not just leaving running (so many people leave the 3kW plasma TV on while they are in another room not using it... why?), do this until your next bill comes through and check out the energy savings. Then you are making some effort.
And I know a lot of you will read this and say:
"What right does he have to tell me how to live? This is AMERICA and I can do what i damn well please." (in the voice of Jimbo from South Park)
Well, you know what, do whatever the you like, I can't stop you, but you are shooting yourself in the foot. Put in a little effort, make a few small changes to your lifestyle, basically be conscious that EVERYTHING you consume comes from somewhere in the environment and has attached to it an environmental AND ECONOMIC cost, and you can save THOUSANDS of dollars a year. Wouldn't you like that going to your mortgage rather than a utility or oil company?
As I posted above, the Bettanys changed a few small aspects of their life, felt better about it afterwards, and put an extra $200 A WEEK in their pocket. Incredible, huh? Not really, just takes a little bit of common sense.
it's a used car, again, do your research. the way you are talking sounds like you don't own a car, or at least a hybrid, and live in a house surrounded in solar panels.
trust me, i contribute probably triple the effort of an average human. and still people like you try to bring me down with BS.
Fair enough, but how can I "do my research" to find out that your car is used? You still didn't tell me why you need one. How much petrol do you go through? Tank a week, tank a month?
So do the bloody audit. It'll take you about an hour and you'll be surprised to find just how much power your family is wasting. Make it a family project. The site I've linked you to gives all sorts of tips on how to save energy and money with minimal effort.
That you think about these things is good, but the fact is that you have no idea what your environmental footprint really is, so why don't you start counting your consumption of everything and find out? Information the first step in any change for the better.
I don't have any solar panels or other generating devices, most of my electrical equipment is old, and I haven't yet invested in simple energy efficiency - I reduced my energy consumption through BEHAVIOURAL CHANGE alone, as did the case studies I cited (actually, no, they did install 5W halogen lightbulbs, but that's it). Next comes investment in better insulation, updated electricals, etc.
I'm talking purely about minor behavioural change. None of us realise how wasteful our normal, patterned, everyday behaviours are until we EXAMINE them. I certainly didn't. Then I did some examination of my lifestyle and was shocked by how wasteful I was. In less than two years, I have cut my total energy consumption (household, travel, etc) by over 50%, with no monetary investment except buying a bike which I wanted for recreation anyway. ANYONE can do this. Most people choose not to because it takes some effort, but point out the monetary incentive and hopefully people start listening a little more.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 07-18-2007 at 10:42 PM.
Liberal Totalitarians.
you know in 500 million years the sun is going to grow, turn red, and swallow the earth. how is not buying a hummer going to stop that you s.
You could have searched my thread about my new "used" car.
if you really want to help, you should get on others about helping the environment, i'm already doing my part.
As I said, by acting wastefully you waste YOUR OWN MONEY, and OUR environment (yours, mine, everyone's - the environment is a public good). It's your right to be a stubborn er about our common future and not care, but why you want to continue to throw away your own money is beyond me.
As for the Sun, no Sherlock. And exactly how long do you think this civilisation will last? We are dependent on fossil fuels for over 90% of our energy, and energy is the basis of everything (your food, transport, housing, EVERYTHING). The International Energy Agency predicts that at current use rates we have 43 years of oil and 64 years of coal left. What happens then, genius? modern civilisation will collapse. Who gives a about 500mil yrs into the future when our civilisation will be lucky to survive the century?
Once again, people like you just show how pig ignorant you are.
Um, no. You have no idea whether you are doing your part or not because you can't quantify your impact. That was actually my point - don't rest on your laurels, move forward, learn and do more. You can, it's within your power. Once you can tell me a bit more about your environmental footprint in quantifiable terms, I'll respect you, but your statement that by doing a little recycling, turning lights off and walking to work you are "doing your part" is naive. Quantify what you do now, do a little more, then look again in 6 months and see how things changed. You will save money and feel better about your impact on the environment.
please
No one has the right to destroy his car- but what annoys me are the women- yes, I said women- who drive around in huge stegosauruses that they have no clue how to drive or how to park- just to take their 3 year old 2 miles to pre-school.
I purposely do everything I can opposite of what the tree hugging commie bastages want me to do, because I figure all of the liberal s "saving the planet" more than make up for my transgressions against Mother Earf.
Chloro Fluoro Carbons, anyone?
While I understand Ruffy's points and do agree with some of them, you will NOT get through to most Americans by being sarcastic and acting like we are all evil. Most will just tune you out and your message will be ignored.
You presume to know what some Americans will say, before they even say it. I had no intention of saying such a thing. But sending your message the way you did will cause others to assume they know what you are about to say as well, without listening. And what ends up happening is neither side gets listened to, and both messages fall by the wayside. And no progress is made.
I just laugh at people like you because your at ude is so ridiculous - you're cutting off your nose of to spite your face. You could save money and do a good thing at the same time, but you do the opposite out of stubborness. Kudos!I purposely do everything I can opposite of what the tree hugging commie bastages want me to do, because I figure all of the liberal s "saving the planet" more than make up for my transgressions against Mother Earf.
Chloro Fluoro Carbons, anyone?
Do you have children? Grandchildren? The people you are really hurting are future generations. It's their climate we are wrecking, their resources we are wasting for the sake of bloodymindedness. Once again, congratulations.
True, good point.
My comments about what will be said came from direct experience on this and other message boards, not supposition.
Re-read my first post though - how was it in any way inflammatory? I talked about ignorant generalisations made by others in the thread, then practical solutions. I only got inflammatory when the real stupidity came out.
Let's face it, most people see this as a "political" issue, something "the government should fix", and "not my problem". No matter what I say or how I say it to these people, it will take a real world crisis to change any part of their minds or behaviour, and I need to blow off some steam.
The absurdity of it is that everyone can SAVE MONEY while helping the environment, as I have said repeatedly, but so few people choose to.
Oh, and you're right, I shouldn't have been so hard on Norcal, at least he's doing something, but that was just habit. Also, I really object to the "resting on laurels" at ude - we can all do more, and often it makes us money for little effort.
true
i read 5% of what he posted, the parts directed towards me.
Okay, how about this:
YOU CAN SAVE LOTSA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Go around your house and turn off everything unless you're using it.
Buy a bike, use public transport sometimes, plan your car trips better and drive less.
Look at your bills now and in a year, you'll be surprised how much you save.
(PS This ignores EMBODIED ENERGY, which is the energy it takes to make the things we all buy and contributes greatly to our environmental footprint, but i was trying to keep things simple, so...
Oh, and BUY LESS STUFF YOU DON'T NEED!
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 07-18-2007 at 11:27 PM.
And I am sure you are not alone. There will be others who read this thread and miss out on his good points entirely cus they see the sarcasm dripping or because it seems too preachy.
Dude, I know that. I have written about this stuff 100 times before, many times being careful NOT to be inflammatory, and all I get is flamed by ignorant trolls anyway, so who cares?
See, these issues are actually scientific and economic, but most people view them as POLITICAL. Al Gore was THE WORST THING that ever happened to the environmental movement, because it polarised people along political lines. Post-Gore, otherwise reasonable conservatives, who, without Gore would have actually read the scientific and economic arguments for change, won't even touch it and instead write environmentalism off as "totalitarian liberalism" (see above) or "commies" or "tree huggers".
I'm none of those things. I live a very similar lifestyle to most people, only I take a bit more care not to waste anything or consume anything I don't need or really, really want. However, there is no talking sense to people once they are in the "two tribes" political mentality.
The info and links are there if anyone has the attention span to follow them up... apart from that, I have let off some steam.
Human ecology is my life, and sometimes it gets very depressing because it is like going to work every day and hitting your head against a wall for 8 hours, so sometimes I like to send some flames back. I'm only human.
Also, please tell me how you inform people about these things without coming off as "preachy"? That is a common criticism against agents of change of all kinds, but by their very nature suggestions for change usually come off as preachy.
Read my posts - I didn't preach. I emphasised that you can SAVE MONEY by doing a few simple things, then put in some useful links as examples. If that's preaching, how the are you meant to spread the message???
First of all, I a girl, not a dude. And I never said you shouldn't be preachy, just that many don't respond to that.
I dont have the answers you seek, I am just advising you to stop with the vitriol regarding Americans, or you can be preachy all you want but it will fall on deaf ears.
I consider "dude" to be genderless, although I didn't know you were a woman. How's dudette?
Where did I direct it at Americans??? It is directed at all of us - Americans, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Europeans of all stripes, Japanese, Koreans, a growing number of Chinese... anyone who lives in a modern economy. You took this to be directed at Americans on your own... which is interesting in itself.
I never specifically targeted Americans or any other nation. We are all wasteful - it is the nature of our societies. Actually, I study the underlying systems in our cultures that drive wasteful behaviour. It is those systems that we need to modify to reduce our wastefulness.
Even though per capita Americans are the worst greenhouse polluters in the world, Aussies aren't far behind, nor Canadians. We're all pretty bad. I never made this nation-specific, nor greenhouse specific. it's more a comment on the absurdity of our wastefulness, which also COSTS US MONEY!
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