I thought these people didn't exist?

[Frank Brickowski]

^ Low income single mothers have access to subsidized child care. I know I have three that currently work for me. The help for these people is there, WIC, CHIP, SSI, Lonestar etc. However, there is no help for someone stupid enough to leave to leave babies in a vehicle for eight hours. Yet, some on this board think that the Federal government is the answer.

[clambake]

The question might be how employers can make someone choose between their job or the welfare of a their children. One of many abuses of the poor. Many act this way without conscience. Employers don't face the daily struggles that their minimum wage(or worse) employees do.

[DarkReign]

TLWisfoine, where the was the at ude you portray in this thread in the Mike Vick thread?

Jesus, its like night and day.

[George Gervin's Afro]

^ Low income single mothers have access to subsidized child care. I know I have three that currently work for me. The help for these people is there, WIC, CHIP, SSI, Lonestar etc. However, there is no help for someone stupid enough to leave to leave babies in a vehicle for eight hours. Yet, some on this board think that the Federal government is the answer.

In this specific case I don't think govt is the answer. in fact overall i don't think govt. is the answer, rather govt should at least provide temporary safety nets for low incomce families. Do any of those prgrams you mention help with childcare?

[George Gervin's Afro]

[QUOTE=jochhejaam]

You stated that “many” on the “right” don’t believe that there are good, hard working poor that are unable to make ends meet, a point that you have yet to substantiate. (That was a weak attempt on your part to dodge the apparent fact that you aren’t able to back up your claim).




I’m sure you can provide that the GOP’s platform clearly states that en lements and social programs should be eliminated because the recipients are lazy people…
Seriously GGA, have you ever considered pursuing a career in filling hot air balloons?






Other than for the reasons of parental neglect and ignorance I'm not aware of any epidemic in America where people are starving to death.



If you don't have the support of a parent it matters little what school district you live in. Rarely will a child succeed when there's no encouragement or participation from a parent.





By falling through the cracks you mean what? IMO, if you have bread on the table and a roof over your head you haven't fallen through a crack.
There are few hard working educated people who fall through the cracks, and we've already gone over why, in large part, they aren't receiving an education. No amount of en lements or social programs can fix that. It's a moral dilemma, and that's not a problem that's going to fixed by multi-billion dollar social welfare programs.





I posed a question, you made a statement as if were fact. A question begs for an answer, a statement, if there's truth to it, begs for facts.

You have yet to quantify many. You have doged that several times as well. There are many on this board who feel like this and are die hard righties. Without interviewing and polling the entire population on the right can we at least accept a small sampling and attribute it proportionally to the entire population right wingers? I would be happy to back my statement when you let me know what will satisfy you. To me that's a weak argument because you continually reflect that question. I am willing to back my statement up as long I know what your definition of of many is. So I wait for an answer ..again.. The reason I ask is because I could provide polling etc.., but since you could continually move the goal post I would never succeed in verifying my statement. Quantify many? or run away and hide again.

[Jamtas#2]

The question might be how employers can make someone choose between their job or the welfare of a their children. One of many abuses of the poor. Many act this way without conscience. Employers don't face the daily struggles that their minimum wage(or worse) employees do.

Well, this is more a result of what they do and the work environment. I used to manage hourly workers in a union environment. This was in the serivce industry so that meant that if someone missed work, it didn't just wait for them the next day, the people there had to cover that person's assignment for the day. Union rules in the contract set a strict guideline on all issues including attendance. All employees (the best on down to the worst) had to be treated equally in regards to missing work, coming in late, etc regardless of performance. When exceptions were made, the union would file grievances with management on why employee "a" got the exception when employee "b" was written up, terminated etc.
When you work in the service industries, attendance to your job is very crucial. Its an unfortunate fact of life. As I'm sure that you wouldn't hire a baby sitter to look after your children who kept cancelling all the time regardless of the reason and leaving you in a hole, businesses have to run that way. (There are ways such as the Family Medical Leave Act which can help and provide authroized leave for employees in specific cir stances, regardless of how the employer feels.)

[George Gervin's Afro]

Just for you jochhejaam

http://www.savecalifornia.com/getinf...testupdate.php

So what's the bottom line? Today, 20 years after the federal welfare reform law, California government has stubbornly refused to give "tough love" to nearly half a million lazy, able-bodied adults. With Democrats in charge, the bums have been handed fish! But now that Republicans control the budget if they hold firm for a few more weeks, people who have been on welfare for five years could actually be forced to get a job...and set a much better example for their children. Forty-eight states are following the federal welfare reform law; so should California. The Senate Republicans' position on this is consistent with the Bible. The Apostle Paul taught, "If a man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Thess 3:10). And younger widows who were idle were prohibited from receiving church financial aid (1 Tim 5:11-13).


http://pewforum.org/publications/reports/poll2002.pdf

Addressing Poverty
Americans are stronglysupportive of helping those in need.
Eight-in-ten (79%) say people should do more to help the needy, even if that
entails some personal sacrifice, while 67% favor more generous government
assistance to the poor. Majorities of all political groups – except conservative Republicans – support more generous government aid.Fully two-thirds would be willing to forgo tax cuts to do more to help the needy and 57% would accept cuts in government programs to achieve this goal. Race, ideology and partisanship are more important than religious affiliation in influencing these views. For instance, 85% of African-
Americans are in favor of holding back on tax cuts to provide more help to the needy, compared with 62% of whites.
While a majority of conservative Republicans (57%) disagree with the idea of making cuts in government programs to fund more aid to the needy, they are much more evenly divided over reducing tax cuts to fulfill this objective – 44% agree with that idea, while 47% disagree.



So again how many examples do I need to find. I could go on all night finding message boards and surveys to prove my point.



Jill Bergfeld from Sherrill, IA
2004-04-28

I dont think I should have to pay for someone elses mistakes or judgement calls on not working. I work very hard for my money and I just barley make it by and if I did not have to support all those lazy people out there I would be comfortable with my pay checks. I think that if someone gets pregnant of quit there job I should not have to work harder just to pay for them.

michael from scranton, pa
2004-02-20

I dont think its fair that the people who work their asses off for people on welfare can just sit around they should be held to same standards as people on unemployment.Also child support should also be a tax deduction for the payee,seeming that it is an out of pocket expense on the most part,some pay thousands a year with nothing to show for it.

[clambake]

Well, this is more a result of what they do and the work environment. I used to manage hourly workers in a union environment. This was in the serivce industry so that meant that if someone missed work, it didn't just wait for them the next day, the people there had to cover that person's assignment for the day. Union rules in the contract set a strict guideline on all issues including attendance. All employees (the best on down to the worst) had to be treated equally in regards to missing work, coming in late, etc regardless of performance. When exceptions were made, the union would file grievances with management on why employee "a" got the exception when employee "b" was written up, terminated etc.
When you work in the service industries, attendance to your job is very crucial. Its an unfortunate fact of life. As I'm sure that you wouldn't hire a baby sitter to look after your children who kept cancelling all the time regardless of the reason and leaving you in a hole, businesses have to run that way. (There are ways such as the Family Medical Leave Act which can help and provide authroized leave for employees in specific cir stances, regardless of how the employer feels.)

people who manage union employees aren't usually tied to the union, they're part of the management team. Still, I get your point. The grocery union here in cali takes union dues from minimum wage members.(Can you believe that ?) A union that makes their minimum wage members pay dues? That's some of the craziest i've ever heard.

[Jamtas#2]

people who manage union employees aren't usually tied to the union, they're part of the management team. Still, I get your point. The grocery union here in cali takes union dues from minimum wage members.(Can you believe that ?) A union that makes their minimum wage members pay dues? That's some of the craziest i've ever heard.

Management isn't tied to the union, but they are tied to the union contract that exists between the labor and management. When I was managing, I was California as well. It really sickened me to see how much the union takes from employees and how little they provide in return. In fact, where I worked, the union was only beneficial to the "bad" employees. The good employees hated the union and wated to get rid of them, but didn't know how. I as management could be sued if I had told them how to go about it. From my experience with unions, they are not at all what they were created to be. They care less about protecting their members than they do about pulling in income and playing politics.

[lebomb]

.

[TLWisfoine]

TLWisfoine, where the was the at ude you portray in this thread in the Mike Vick thread?

I was just trying to be nice then!!!

[jochhejaam]

Just for you jochhejaam

http://www.savecalifornia.com/getinf...testupdate.php


http://pewforum.org/publications/reports/poll2002.pdf

So again how many examples do I need to find. I could go on all night finding message boards and surveys to prove my point.

I have no idea what point you believe you've proven with these articles, and attempting to support your position with quotes from anonymous posts on message boards is laughable.

I believe it to be an effort in futility, but once again I'll post your quotes that you haven't come close to backing up, with the hope that you will either provide adequate support for them, or back down from them.

Here are the quotes:

1. "This is a perfect example of what many people on the right refuse to acknowledge exist."

2. "I get tired of people on the right not excepting that there are poor people who do want o make things right and work hard. Yet in the end it's still not enough"

You have not supported your ridiculous premise that the article you posted is a "perfect example of what many people on the right refuse to acknowledge exists" nor have you provided support for your generalization that "people on the right don't accept that there are poor people who do want to make things right and work hard".

Now have at it GGA.





p.s. Any more attempts on your part to foist off unrelated articles as support for your misguided charges will be considered nothing less than an affront to rational, reasonable thinking and may well result in the issuance of a Cease and Desist order.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I have no idea what point you believe you've proven with these articles, and attempting to support your position with quotes from anonymous posts on message boards is laughable.

I believe it to be an effort in futility, but once again I'll post your quotes that you haven't come close to backing up, with the hope that you will either provide adequate support for them, or back down from them.

Here are the quotes:


You have not supported your ridiculous premise that the article you posted is a "perfect example of what many people on the right refuse to acknowledge exists" nor have you provided support for your generalization that "people on the right don't accept that there are poor people who do want to make things right and work hard".

Now have at it GGA.



p.s. Any more attempts on your part to foist off unrelated articles as support for your misguided charges will be considered nothing less than an affront to rational, reasonable thinking and may well result in the issuance of a Cease and Desist order.

I am assuming now you want verbatum information? Let's tally what you have said that I can't use. Polling data, conservtaive websites, conservative message baords, state republican websites, etc... oh and you want proof..

[desflood]

I believe that everyone is racist, just some more than others. I guarantee every white person on earth that's capable of independent thinking has said the word ###### before, in a hateful manner. On the flip side, I also believe all blacks have done the same.

I have to ask this: Seriously? Don't throw your nasty little racist attributes over to the rest of us to feel less guilt about what you may have said or done.

I'll go crawling back into the sports forum now

[Oh, Gee!!]

I find it very hard to believe someone white would do this. That might be racist, but it's also truth.

they usually just drown their kids

[Yonivore]

I just wanted to pass long an interesting story. This is a perfect example of what many people on the right refuse to acknowledge exist.

What? A life full to bad choices resulting in the deaths of two innocent children?

Happens all the time.

Everyday issues that many in the political arena just don't understand.

What's to understand? This woman set herself up for failure. Your story doesn't cover the details very well but, considering she had just put up a newborn for adoption and had a 12 year old living with his father, I'm thinking this is one irresponsible woman. Leaving your kids in a car, in the sun, then -- instead of seeking medical help -- taking them home to die?

Sorry, I don't care how nice she is -- she killed her kids. Now, in this case, living with that is probably punishment enough but, that people think she's a wonderful mom and are feeling all sorry for her, doesn't mitigate the fact that she made poor choices that led to this eventuality.

This example shows how the notion of tax credits for healthcare etc is foolish and impractictal.

No it doesn't.

I get tired of people on the right not excepting that there are poor people who do want o make things right and work hard. Yet in the end it's still not enough. There are 2 America's whether you like it or not..

I get tired of people like you excusing behavior that is completely avoidable and deaths that are completely preventable -- no matter how poor you are.

[TheAuthority]

they usually just drown their kids

Well, at least some calculated thinking goes into it when white people are the parties involved.

[TheAuthority]

I have to ask this: Seriously? Don't throw your nasty little racist attributes over to the rest of us to feel less guilt about what you may have said or done.

I'll go crawling back into the sports forum now

Why would I feel guilty? I'm a realist. And I'm not sure what you mean by "done". Did you think I lynch blacks on the weekends? Or...?

[TLWisfoine]

^^^ Minorities also don't go drowning their children either!!! I'm not saying this out of hate and its not like I go out attacking white people because of their race, I'm just being a realist!!!

[Oh, Gee!!]

Well, at least some calculated thinking goes into it when white people are the parties involved.

Yes, intentionally killing one's children is a tad bit more evil than accidentally killing them. I'm not saying one race is more evil, I'm just saying.

[Oh, Gee!!]

.

[DarkReign]

Hitler = white dude
Ghengis Khan = asian dude
Napolean = white dude

So obviously, white people and asian people are ing xenophobic nutbags bent on world domination.

Or, its just because a black person never had the opportunity to run the world. That needs some Affirmative Action like yesterday!

[TheAuthority]

Hitler = white dude
Ghengis Khan = asian dude
Napolean = white dude

So obviously, white people and asian people are ing xenophobic nutbags bent on world domination.

Or, its just because a black person never had the opportunity to run the world. That needs some Affirmative Action like yesterday!

I'm going to go with the latter.

[smeagol]

Well, at least some calculated thinking goes into it when white people are the parties involved.

Did you take your white pointy hood and your white robe to write that or where you simply sporting your white epidermis and underpants?

[TheAuthority]

Did you take your white pointy hood and your white robe to write that or where you simply sporting your white epidermis and underpants?

WTB English class