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Loved Mark Acguirre. Scoring, rebounding, FT shooting. Consistent 20+ scorer for many years. Could do it all. Very underrated SF. Would like to see him get more recognition from both the Mavs and the NBA.
He and Marvin Williams are both top-10 on the all-time list of Non-Maverick SF's, since guys that have worn the blue and green occupy the first 10 spots.
Loved Mark Acguirre. Scoring, rebounding, FT shooting. Consistent 20+ scorer for many years. Could do it all. Very underrated SF. Would like to see him get more recognition from both the Mavs and the NBA.
What TimVP said. I don't think Shawn Marion makes my top 30. Maybe my top 50. I'm not sure he's even the best to ever play for Phoenix. Walter Davis and Tom Chambers were probably as good or better than Marion. What about Connie Hawkins?
The dude in the avatar FTW!!! Nah, not the best but of course in MY top 10.
1. Bird
2. Pippen
3. Dr. J
4. Rick Barry
5. Bernard King
6. Nique
7. Havlicek
8. Lebron
9. Alex English
10. Chris Mullin (personal preference so suck it)
But honestly top TEN? Mark Aguirre is there, and Rodman played SF early with the Pistons...
Based on stats alone Rick Barry was the best small forward of all time. Also the player to lead the NCAA in scoring and rebounding the same year. The only reason Bird was considered a SF was because of Mchale. At 6'9" Bird was really a PF like Malone.
He needs his number retired, along with Harper and Finley once he retires. And Brad Davis' number needs to be unretired. I'm campaigning for Nick Fazekas to wear 15 next season.
Cuban is about as bad as Jerry Jones in virtually ignoring the history and great franchise players that came before his tenure of ownership.
Disagree. Bird was not your typical back-to-the basket low post PF. He was more of a wing player and an outside threat. His game was nothing like Karl Malone's game. Malone was a brute who would overpower you, but still had enough speed to get by you or get out on the break. He did have a great medium range jumpshot. Bird was much more of a finesse player who could beat you with the pass or just shoot it in your face from anywhere on the court. Their games were nothing alike.
Lafrentz will probably get his number retired before Aguirre. it's a shame.
what do you guys think of chris mullin??
Don't you dare ask me that
GOAT
I would possibly put Dr. J and Rick Barry above Pippen. Without Jordan, Pippen just seemed like another All Star and was nowhere near as good. Yet while he was with Jordan he was incredible. In the end, I do think he is slightly overrated.
I always had a theory that Bird was really 6'10". Theres 1000's of clips and pix of him and Magic standing side-by-side and he towered Magic (kinda).
...either that or Magic was 6'7" to 6'8"....
In a few years, LeBron James should be very much in the discussion. And, when it's all said and done, he could very well be the one. While championships are always part of the discussion, it's obvious that he'll need to win multiple les to really make an argument against the likes of Larry Bird.
I heard that James Worthy guy was kinda good. I think I only saw his name once in this thread.
The nature of the position of small forward is very much a secondary role and dependent on having a good point guard on offense and talented defensive big man at the other end. It's rare for a small forward to be the best player on a team like Larry Bird and Dr. J and LeBron. But, when it comes to production and fitting the role of what should be expected from a small forward, James Worthy is right up there near the top of the list, even though he was not always the best player on his teams or the main focal point on offense.
Your completely undervaluing Pippen.
Jordan never won anything without him and vica versa, and without Jordan he had his greatest season ever, leading the Bulls to a 55-27 record and the 7th game of the second round.
Pippen was one of the best all around players I have ever seen
Elgin Baylor? Or was he more of a PF?
Baylor was 6'5". Back then they really didn't make the positional distinctions, but Baylor certainly rebounded like a PF.
And , Charles Barkley played PF at 6'5", so why not Baylor?
I would take Marion over McGrady, JHoward, and Pierce.
Marion is an excellent defender, excellent rebounder, and somehow manages to score 20 points a night even though no plays are run for him. He's not our best scorer, but he doesn't have to be.
No, no, and no.
Marion is as overrated as his huge contract.
Marion is not an excellent defender.
Parker shred him in pieces during this year's series (though admittingly, that was a mismatch), he doesn't even guard Bryant in the Lakers series because Bell was the better perimeter defender. JHo is a way better defender, and Pierce and McGrady can both create on offense.
Marion is the ultimate role player, but there is no way a role player ever cracks any top 10 lists, other than top 10 role players of all time.
He is the ultimate role player, which is exactly why I want him on my team. Pierce and McGrady are great offensive players (they're also ballhogs), but they haven't really proven anything. Howard is becoming a better player than Marion, but I don't think he's quite there yet.
By the way, I never said he was in my Top 10 SF, because he isn't. Top 25, maybe.
Larry BirD
I'd consider Marion over Carmelo and Pierce, and, depending on the team, maybe over McGrady, but I like Howard much more than Marion as of right now.
For this current Suns team, definately over Carmelo and Pierce, but not over McGrady or Howard, and certainly not LeBron. I'd probably take Manu over him for the Suns as well.
I don't like the lack of defense and rebounding from Anthony, and, despite his scoring, he's not much better a 3-point shooter, and not near the force in the paint. Pierce is tougher, but still more of a perimeter foward, settling for jumpers and threes, but not shooting either at a very good clip. He defends, but not very well anymore, and he tends to dominate the ball.
I do believe a lot of Spurs fans have a flawed notion of Marion because of his play against them. While it's very true that he struggles against the Spurs, and while, unfortunately, it's also true most of those games have come in the playoffs, the notion that Marion struggles terribly during the playoffs is not entirely correct. He's had some fantastic series against the Mavs and Lakers, and played very well against the Grizzlies and Clippers as well.
His career averages are 18.6 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 1.9 spg, 1.3 bpg on 51% FG, 31% 3FG
His playoff averages are 17.1 ppg, 10.9 rpg, 1.5 spg, 1.5 bpg on 46% FG, 34% 3FG
This isn't to say he isn't flawed. He is. This isn't to say he hasn't cost the Suns vs. the Spurs. He has. But I don't believe you can discount all he's achieved, which is significant, just from two or three series.
I'm telling you, don't be surprised if he winds up in the HOF. He's one of the best defenders of his era, though not great on the ball, his help defense is a thing of beauty, and he is one of, if not the best rebounding SF ever. Few have his averages, and when you factor in his stature, 6-7, 225, it's that much more impressive. He's likely to be a career 17/18 ppg player, so when coupled with all his other stats, his All-Star appearances, and his All-NBA appearances, if he keeps it up for another 5/6 years, he'll have some of the most impressive stats at his position. He's got a lot of work to do before such is realistic, but I do think he's got a decent chance if he keeps thigns up.
Also, in reference to Marion, he's been in the league 9 years. Howard, LeBron, and Melo have only been in for 4. LeBron will definitely finish high on this list; how high remains to be seen.
ALL THE GUYS YOU MENTIONED CAN PLAY IN THE HALF COURT. SOMETHING MARION ISN'T AS GOOD AT. IF THEY WERE THE SAME AGE, I'D TAKE JHO OVER MARION IN A HEARTBEAT. MARION REBOUNDS B/C WHO ELSE IS GOING TO IF HE DOESN'T?????
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