Depends on how you read it.
Depends on how you read it.
One thing ray, bad news is bad for the entire country and not just for dems. You really need to get away from talk radio.. Good news that more troops means more security? no . of course you proudly say that good news is coming out of Iraq be cause of the surge..etc.. well I seem to rememebr for the last 3 years you have been defending the wrong strategy ...
By the way sionce the only solution for the Iraq mess is a political one any good news on that?
GGA, Your full of it. I have the Congress to tell me what is
and what isn't wrong. After all they are experts on all matters,
whether it be health care, fighting wars or global warming. Just
read the following. The even know more than they General
they unanimously approved for the job in Iraq. Why they knew
everything would turn out great in Viet Nam, where the great
leader in the Senate, John Kerry, the wounded veteran served.
Surge a failure, Democrats tell general
Sep 11 02:10 PM US/Eastern
Anti-war Senate Democrats bluntly told Iraq commander General David Petraeus Tuesday his troop surge strategy was an abject failure in its prime objective -- forging an Iraqi political settlement.
Several Senate Republicans also expressed unease with US war policy, as the general and US ambassador to Baghdad Ryan Crocker endured a roasting on a second day of high-stakes testimony to Congress.
Petraeus repeated his contention that the surge was working, and said US forces could gradually be reduced from their current 168,000 strength, to pre-surge levels of around 130,000 by mid 2008.
But committee chairman Senator Joseph Biden said: "we should stop the surge and start bringing our troops home."
Biden, a 2008 presidential candidate, asked: was Iraq closer to political reconciliation than before the surge began, and would continuing the operation stop the killing between Sunnis, Shias and Kurds?
"The answer to both those questions is no," Biden said.
Another long-shot Democratic presidential candidate Senator Christopher Dodd, was even more terse, pointing to slow Iraqi political reconciliation.
"What makes you possibly think that anything further like this is going to produce the results that anybody else has failed to do?"
The reception granted to President George W. Bush's top war advisors contrasted with the smooth ride they enjoyed before two House of Representatives panels Monday, opening a week critical to future US strategy.
Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer rebuked Petraeus for past optimism. "I ask you to take off your rosy glasses."
"We are sending our troops where they are not wanted, with no end in sight, in the middle of a civil war, in the middle of the mother of all mistakes."
But despite their anger, Senate Democrats still look set to fail in their bid to fracture Republican support and force Bush to change course.
Republican Chuck Hagel, a fierce critic of war strategy, also chastised Crocker and Petraeus for what he said was an overly upbeat survey.
"Where is this going to go?" Hagel asked.
"Are we going to continue to invest American blood and treasure at the same rate as we are now? For what?"
Petraeus replied: "my responsibility as I see it is not to give a good picture, it is to give an accurate picture."
Republican Senator Richard Lugar warned Petraeus of the need for long-term planning for redeployment.
"Some type of success in Iraq is possible, but as policy makers, we should acknowledge that we are facing extraordinarily narrow margins for achieving our goals."
At the White House, spokesman Tony Snow would not say whether Bush, expected to address Americans on television on Iraq this week, would follow the Petraeus recommendations.
"We are not going to play the game of what he is likely to do," Snow said.
Crocker offered a sober assessment of the situation in Iraq, repeating his contention that slow, upward progress was being made.
But his somber tone was in marked contrast to many of previous assessments of progress in the four-year war by the Bush administration.
"There will be no single moment at which we can claim victory, any turning point would likely only be recognized in retrospect," Crocker said.
"I think in the past we set some expectations that have not been met. I am trying not to do that."
Crocker's remarks provoked a "Code Pink" anti-war protestor to yell "Diplomats for peace not occupation" before she was hustled out of the hearing.
Then, a white-haired man stood up and barked "So now you are laying the ground to get us into bombing Iran," before police pounced.
Petraeus also said he would be "hard pressed" next March to recommend an extension of the military surge in Iraq if there is no let-up in current levels of bloodshed on the ground.
And he said the surge would effectively end by mid next year with withdrawals starting with reductions of marines this month and 4,000 more troops in December.
Military officials had previously acknowledged that continuing the surge after mid-2008 would be difficult because of the lack of available forces to keep troop levels so high.
Copyright AFP 2007, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium
Ray did the surge solve the political problem? I think we can all acknowledge that putting more boots on the ground allowed for us to hold our ground. But the only solution for Iraq is a political one..so I will ask again did the surge solve the political problem?
The political problem can only be resolved if the country is secure...so, yes, in a manner of speaking, the surge did work toward a resolution of the political problem.
Let's see where we are next Spring, shall we?
let's hope these folks can take care of their own country sometime soon..
Didn't you say let's see where we are in September?
Why are you moving the goalposts again?
GGA, how many years has our country existed? And have
we solved all our political problems?
And if you think all our political problems are solved, God
help you.
Chump who is moving the goal post? I accuse you!
Yoni.What is victory in Iraq?I accuse you!
ahhh the 64,000.00 question
A secure country, a recovering economy, holding free and fair elections and the absence an al Qaeda presence.
General Petraeus's report shows it is more secure than before the surge began, that sectarian violence is diminishing, that al Qaeda has been significantly degraded and that the environment is more favorable for political progres than it was at the same time last year.
Need my address for the money order?
GGA has the answer:
let's hope these folks can take care of their own country sometime soon..
"General Petraeus's report shows it is more secure than before the surge began"
dubya's lap-dog's report is being ripped and exposed already, by independent observers who don't cherry pick and hype. Even Repug Senators aren't satisfied with Petraeus' fluff and puff job.
That ripping and exposing will continue, as will dubya's "playing" for time until 20 Jan 09.
The following was original published in the Op-ED section of The Washington Post on September 26 2004 by David Petraeus...
Battling for Iraq
By David H. Petraeus Sunday, September 26, 2004
BAGHDAD --The writer, an Army lieutenant general, commands the Multinational Security Transition Command in Iraq. He previously commanded the 101st Airborne Division, which was deployed in Iraq from March 2003 until February 2004.Helping organize, train and equip nearly a quarter-million of Iraq's security forces is a daunting task. Doing so in the middle of a tough insurgency increases the challenge enormously, making the mission akin to repairing an aircraft while in flight -- and while being shot at. Now, however, 18 months after entering Iraq, I see tangible progress. Iraqi security elements are being rebuilt from the ground up.
The ins utions that oversee them are being reestablished from the top down. And Iraqi leaders are stepping forward, leading their country and their security forces courageously in the face of an enemy that has shown a willingness to do anything to disrupt the establishment of the new Iraq.
In recent months, I have observed thousands of Iraqis in training and then watched as they have conducted numerous operations. Although there have been reverses -- not to mention horrific terrorist attacks -- there has been progress in the effort to enable Iraqis to shoulder more of the load for their own security, something they are keen to do. The future undoubtedly will be full of difficulties, especially in places such as Fallujah. We must expect setbacks and recognize that not every soldier or policeman we help train will be equal to the challenges ahead.
Nonetheless, there are reasons for optimism. Today approximately 164,000 Iraqi police and soldiers (of which about 100,000 are trained and equipped) and an additional 74,000 facility protection forces are performing a wide variety of security missions. Equipment is being delivered. Training is on track and increasing in capacity. Infrastructure is being repaired. Command and control structures and ins utions are being reestablished.
Most important, Iraqi security forces are in the fight -- so much so that they are suffering substantial casualties as they take on more and more of the burdens to achieve security in their country. Since Jan. 1 more than 700 Iraqi security force members have been killed, and hundreds of Iraqis seeking to volunteer for the police and military have been killed as well.
Six battalions of the Iraqi regular army and the Iraqi Intervention Force are now conducting operations. Two of these battalions, along with the Iraqi commando battalion, the counterterrorist force, two Iraqi National Guard battalions and thousands of policemen recently contributed to successful operations in Najaf. Their readiness to enter and clear the Imam Ali shrine was undoubtedly a key factor in enabling Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani to persuade members of the Mahdi militia to lay down their arms and leave the shrine.
In another highly successful operation several days ago, the Iraqi counterterrorist force conducted early-morning raids in Najaf that resulted in the capture of several senior lieutenants and 40 other members of that militia, and the seizure of enough weapons to fill nearly four 7 1/2-ton dump trucks.
Within the next 60 days, six more regular army and six additional Intervention Force battalions will become operational. Nine more regular army battalions will complete training in January, in time to help with security missions during the Iraqi elections at the end of that month.
Iraqi National Guard battalions have also been active in recent months. Some 40 of the 45 existing battalions -- generally all except those in the Fallujah-Ramadi area -- are conducting operations on a daily basis, most alongside coalition forces, but many independently. Progress has also been made in police training. In the past week alone, some 1,100 graduated from the basic policing course and five specialty courses. By early spring, nine academies in Iraq and one in Jordan will be graduating a total of 5,000 police each month from the eight-week course, which stresses patrolling and investigative skills, substantive and procedural legal knowledge, and proper use of force and weaponry, as well as pride in the profession and adherence to the police code of conduct.
Iraq's borders are long, stretching more than 2,200 miles. Reducing the flow of extremists and their resources across the borders is critical to success in the counterinsurgency. As a result, with support from the Department of Homeland Security, specialized training for Iraq's border enforcement elements began earlier this month in Jordan.
Regional academies in Iraq have begun training as well, and more will come online soon. In the months ahead, the 16,000-strong border force will expand to 24,000 and then 32,000. In addition, these forces will be provided with modern technology, including vehicle X-ray machines, explosive-detection devices and ground sensors.
Outfitting hundreds of thousands of new Iraqi security forces is difficult and complex, and many of the units are not yet fully equipped. But equipment has begun flowing. Since July 1, for example, more than 39,000 weapons and 22 million rounds of ammunition have been delivered to Iraqi forces, in addition to 42,000 sets of body armor, 4,400 vehicles, 16,000 radios and more than 235,000 uniforms.
Considerable progress is also being made in the reconstruction and refurbishing of infrastructure for Iraq's security forces. Some $1 billion in construction to support this effort has been completed or is underway, and five Iraqi bases are already occupied by entire infantry brigades.
Numbers alone cannot convey the full story. The human dimension of this effort is crucial. The enemies of Iraq recognize how much is at stake as Iraq reestablishes its security forces. Insurgents and foreign fighters continue to mount barbaric attacks against police stations, recruiting centers and military installations, even though the vast majority of the population deplores such attacks. Yet despite the sensational attacks, there is no shortage of qualified recruits volunteering to join Iraqi security forces. In the past couple of months, more than 7,500 Iraqi men have signed up for the army and are preparing to report for basic training to fill out the final nine battalions of the Iraqi regular army. Some 3,500 new police recruits just reported for training in various locations. And two days after the recent bombing on a street outside a police recruiting location in Baghdad, hundreds of Iraqis were once again lined up inside the force protection walls at another location -- where they were greeted by interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi.
I meet with Iraqi security force leaders every day. Though some have given in to acts of intimidation, many are displaying courage and resilience in the face of repeated threats and attacks on them, their families and their comrades. I have seen their determination and their desire to assume the full burden of security tasks for Iraq.
There will be more tough times, frustration and disappointment along the way. It is likely that insurgent attacks will escalate as Iraq's elections approach. Iraq's security forces are, however, developing steadily and they are in the fight. Momentum has gathered in recent months. With strong Iraqi leaders out front and with continued coalition -- and now NATO -- support, this trend will continue. It will not be easy, but few worthwhile things are.
Washington Post
Your point?
"September 26, 2004" "tangible progress."
6 weeks before the presidential election, an active duty General publishes a puff piece in a national paper of record. He was obviously doing dubya/Rove's election/campaign bidding. dubya was re-elected by the smallest margin ever for an in bent Pres.
If Petraeus wants to play politics along with General-ing (and reaching General rank is due primarily to YEARS of playing Army politics 24x7), then Petraeus can't complain about getting attacked for his politicking, for his hyping the un-hypeable, for sucking dubya's ass to the detriment of his troops.
Last edited by boutons_; 09-11-2007 at 07:28 PM.
I agree with MoveOn here. Petraeus decided to step in the political arena by writing an opinion piece prior to the '04 election and now granting an exclusive to the RNC's infomercial otherwise known as Fox News. The general's "report" which was written by the White House is a PR piece to counter the unfavorable reports that have been coming out. Since Bush has no credibility beyond the 30% dead enders who support him and his war and still think Saddam had something to do with 9/11 he has to trot out a guy in uniform. Conservatives love a man in uniform because it's win/win for them. If you challenge or disagree with the general's testimony, the right wing machine charges into high gear as Fox Noise is doing here and mariginalizes the party doing the criticizing. If you remain silent, their message goes unchallenged.
He is being the "good soldier" just like another respected General who's career is now tarnished by his presentation before the U.N.
MoveOn will be proved right by time.
The Patraeus revelations keep coming...
REPORT: Petraeus Spent At Least 17 Days In August Flacking For Bush’s Escalation
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/10/petraeus-augustThe Washington Post reported this weekend that the White House political office and Gen. David Petraeus’ unit have been “hard-wired” together, working jointly to “map out ways of selling the surge.”
The White House has used Petraeus as a PR flack over and over again to sustain its failing Iraq strategy. Last month, Petraeus kicked his political activities into overdrive. He hosted over 38 congressional members inside the Green Zone, and he gave numerous radio, print and TV interviews.
ThinkProgress has compiled a report of Gen. Petraeus’ public activities in August which show that the top general in Iraq spent at least half the month flacking for Bush’s escalation.
There is a calendar (AT LINK) of Petraeus’ busy PR operations last month. The red dates are those which we know from media reports that Petraeus was either hosting “dog and pony shows” for members of Congress or giving media interviews. You can scroll over each of the red dates for more details. Please let us know if there’s something we missed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjpD46yLPvc
Sen. Warner: "Do you feel that [Iraq war] is making America safer"?
Gen. Petraeus: (pause) "I believe this is indeed the best course of action to achieve our objectives in Iraq."
Sen. Warner: "Does the [Iraq war] make America safer?"
Gen. Petraeus: "I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted in my own mind.
------------
That pretty much sums up the hearings.
Touche'....but I don't see what anyone else expected from Petraeus, he has too much invested in the surge working to admit that any possible gains may or may not make a difference on the eventual outcome in Iraq, much less if it makes us any safer....That pretty much sums up the hearings.
That's right. Take an expert at warfare and ask him to declare something he has not spent his time with. The general is tasked with the intricacies on the battlefield. Not those of the intelligence networks. If you listened to any of the exchanges at length, you would see that Petaeus was very good in his statements overall.
Is that the best you have?
"Take an expert at warfare"
He's an American citizen with family and friends in America.
He's supposed to be one of the smartest, best people in the Army.
(right up there in the 99 percentile with our very own brilliant WC)
But WC thinks Pet is being unfairly picked on to be asked the question which is about the MAIN reason a country goes to war for?
A basic question that as been asked in polls of Americans for years? Americans have answers,
but "the best" Pet has is "I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted in my own mind." ? GMAFB
Pet knows damn well America is NOT safer as result of dubya fraudulent war that de-stabilized Iraq,
exhausts the the Army mentally, physiically, and materially,
prevents the Army from being able to respond to real threats elsewhere.
"I don't know, actually" Pet is a ing liar.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
