JAZZ: Andrei Kirilenko demands trade

[FromWayDowntown]

Actually, Kirilenko is very good at defense.

He's not GREAT at any one thing, but he is very good at almost everything. He'll get you a decent number of blocks, steals, rebounds, assists, and points.

He's also just won the Euro championships and probably regained some of his confidence/edge. Add to all that, his versatility to play three positions on the floor (2, 3, 4) and you've got a decent player.

Is he worth max-type money? No, but if he's healthy and confident he'll make your team MUCH better.

I see a potential deal with Jason Terry as the foundation of the trade on the other side. Dallas has to give the job to Harris someday after they just agreed to pay him $8M/yr and Utah is still probably looking for that Derek Fisher replacement.

Bottom Line: Andrei Kirilenko could be a VERY good acquisition for any club that decides he's worth overpaying, to put them over the top.

I disagree about Kirilenko being much more than a good defender. He puts up good defensive numbers, but playing good defense is a different thing than putting up good defensive numbers.

And I can't see that Kirilenko would be anything more than a nice piece for a good team -- I don't think he'll ever be the guy who puts a team over the top.

[E20]

How does Kirilenko have any authority to demand a trade? He sucked ass for the Jazz, people need to know their place, too much God complex going on in the NBA now-a-days.

[ploto]

This is not new just since Eurobasket. He asked to be traded last season. Toronto would be willing to fork out the money for him but they have tried to trade for him before to no avail.

[Kori Ellis]

I disagree about Kirilenko being much more than a good defender. He puts up good defensive numbers, but playing good defense is a different thing than putting up good defensive numbers.

And I can't see that Kirilenko would be anything more than a nice piece for a good team -- I don't think he'll ever be the guy who puts a team over the top.

You are right. His blocks (and other numbers) are an illusion of good defense. Jerry Sloan calls him out about it. He lets players blow by him and then reaches from behind to try to get blocks. That's not being a great defender. I know that he has a mul ude of things that show up in the stat sheet as being good. But if you watch him a lot, you won't be that impressed.

Also, he cried on the ground (literally) about not getting enough playing time and being treated "poorly".

I can't imagine what would happen if he was a Spur and Pop yelled at him.

[ploto]

Kirilenko also revealed that he talked to Kevin O'Connor, the Jazz's senior vice president of basketball operations, a few weeks ago and asked to be traded.

O'Connor said Tuesday that he had spoken with Kirilenko but declined to comment on what was said.

"What you're trying to do is overall look at the success he's had with us," O'Connor said. "He has a long-term contract with us and I don't think we would have given him a contract like that if we weren't confident he'd be here."

Kirilenko is required to report for camp by Oct. 1 and O'Connor said, "We explained to him when everybody was supposed to be back and we expect him to be here."

The Jazz would face sizable obstacles in trying to trade Kirilenko, their highest-paid player owed $63 million through the 2010-11 season. They also face untold distractions as they open the season trying to build off a conference finals appearance.

Of his conversation with O'Connor, Kirilenko wrote, "I told him that I don't see myself in the team and want to leave." He added: "I don't want myself and my contract to be a burden for the club. I want the club to continue in its own direction."

AK wants trade

[duncan228]

Also, he cried on the ground (literally) about not getting enough playing time and being treated "poorly".

I can't imagine what would happen if he was a Spur and Pop yelled at him.

Good thing we don't have to imagine.
He's not a Spurs kind of guy even if he were cheap.

[ducks]

we can imagine
we have beno

[ShoogarBear]

It's not quite that simple. Teams can't just fire players without any consequences to themselves. Aside from making a talented player available to the rest of the league, which is a significant cost in a business with a shallow pool of available employees, the team will either have to pay a substantial payout to the guy to terminate the contract early (costing the team cash now) or will have to continue having his contract count against the salary cap while the player moves along to another team (costing the team teh ability to acquire other players down the road).

Using real world work analogies is tempting, but I think that it's ultimately improper when thinking about NBA employment. With guaranteed contracts, it is frequently true that the employees actually have the employers over a barrel.

You could also make the argument from the other end. In the real world, if you don't like the company you're working for, you can quit, send your resume out, and look for another job. Kirlenko can't do that. He can only play basketball for the Utah Jazz. Again, it's not a perfect analogy.

[FromWayDowntown]

You could also make the argument from the other end. In the real world, if you don't like the company you're working for, you can quit, send your resume out, and look for another job. Kirlenko can't do that. He can only play basketball for the Utah Jazz. Again, it's not a perfect analogy.

I agree with that. I suppose that Kirilenko could ask to be waived (ala Derek Fisher) and void the remainder of his contract -- though he'd be crazy to do that -- and move along to another team or even another league. It would be ridiculously impractical for him, but he has that option. Still there are numerous mutually-advantageous and mutually-disadvantageous aspects to the guaranteed contracts used in the NBA.

Ultimately, I think the fact that there are arguments for the player having the team over a barrel and the team having the player over a barrel is indicative of the fact that NBA employment is substantially different than employer-employee relations in the real world.

[ShoogarBear]

Ultimately, I think the fact that there are arguments for the player having the team over a barrel and the team having the player over a barrel is indicative of the fact that NBA employment is substantially different than employer-employee relations in the real world.

Exactly. Which is why the hip-shooting "why don't they just do their jobs" comments are always silly.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

When asked what will happen if he doesnt get traded

"Ill break you."

Looks like Ivan, plays like Ludmilla.

I feel really bad for the Jazz. I don't doubt they were already searching every possible option to get rid of him. Any team they were going to deal with already had the upper hand on the Jazz because with his contract and Houdini act in the playoffs I would bet that the Jazz want him gone more than any team particularly wants him. So the odds of them getting their money's worth on a trade was already long, and now, with the added fun of Kirilenko publicly stating he wants out and displaying even more mental baggage that he'd be taking with him, the odds look worse. They'll be lucky to get much of anything worth having to unload him.

[ShoogarBear]

Looks like Ivan, plays like Ludmilla.

I feel really bad for the Jazz. I don't doubt they were already searching every possible option to get rid of him. Any team they were going to deal with already had the upper hand on the Jazz because with his contract and Houdini act in the playoffs I would bet that the Jazz want him gone more than any team particularly wants him. So the odds of them getting their money's worth on a trade was already long, and now, with the added fun of Kirilenko publicly stating he wants out and displaying even more mental baggage that he'd be taking with him, the odds look worse. They'll be lucky to get much of anything worth having to unload him.

There's no way they'll get value in terms of talent. The only thing they can hope to get is quicker cap relief out of the deal.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There's no way they'll get value in terms of talent. The only thing they can hope to get is quicker cap relief out of the deal.

Not so. If we trade them Beno and a life size statue of Beno covered in diamonds and rubies the money and the talent evens out.

[AFBlue]

I disagree about Kirilenko being much more than a good defender. He puts up good defensive numbers, but playing good defense is a different thing than putting up good defensive numbers.

And I can't see that Kirilenko would be anything more than a nice piece for a good team -- I don't think he'll ever be the guy who puts a team over the top.

See your point about the numbers and playing consistent defense, but you can't say that he's a defensive liability in the least.

And "nice pieces" on teams with already-solid players CAN be guys who put their teams over the top.

IMO, Kirilenko on the Mavs in place of Jason Terry, who duplicates the same talent as Devin Harris, would make the Mavs more dangerous.

[FromWayDowntown]

See your point about the numbers and playing consistent defense, but you can't say that he's a defensive liability in the least.

And "nice pieces" on teams with already-solid players CAN be guys who put their teams over the top.

IMO, Kirilenko on the Mavs in place of Jason Terry, who duplicates the same talent as Devin Harris, would make the Mavs more dangerous.

See, I don't see Terry and Harris as being the same sorts of players or talents. They play the same position in some sense, but that's about it. Terry is a scorer with range; Harris is a quick slasher who can score. Harris is a pretty good defender; I don't think Terry's a very good defender at all.

I can see your point about Kirilenko being different for a team like the Mavs, but I don't know that different is better. Kirilenko is still a pretty soft guy, even for someone who's greatest strength might be his overrated ability to defend. Playing Kirilenko and Dirk together would cost the Mavs in one aspect or another -- and it's not as if Kirilenko is going to give the Mavs the things that they were lacking against GST in the playoffs.

Adding a "big name" and a "big contract" to an established team is not a guarantee of increased success.

[ShoogarBear]

Not so. If we trade them Beno and a life size statue of Beno covered in diamonds and rubies the money and the talent evens out.

Actually, I believe Beno already comes with a couple of diamond-and-ruby-encrusted man-purses, so that just may work.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Actually, I believe Beno already comes with a couple of diamond-and-ruby-encrusted man-purses, so that just may work.

Sounds good. The Jazz get the added bonus that a reality show consisting of Beno's search for a dance club and efforts to pick up Mormon chicks has money written all over it.

[PM5K]

Exactly. Which is why the hip-shooting "why don't they just do their jobs" comments are always silly.

I disagree.

I think comments like that come from people that realize that not every job you have is going to be perfect, and you aren't always going to be totally happy but they don't about it, they do their job and earn their money.

Considering the fact that those comparisons don't work (comparing white/blue collar workers with NBA Players) you can look at Kevin Garnett, a considerably better talent than AK47, and whose teams built around him were consistently sub par, and he went years without complaining, and actually considering the fact that he's the best player on his team, he really is one of the few that should have been complaining.

[FromWayDowntown]

I disagree.

I think comments like that come from people that realize that not every job you have is going to be perfect, and you aren't always going to be totally happy but they don't about it, they do their job and earn their money.

Considering the fact that those comparisons don't work (comparing white/blue collar workers with NBA Players) you can look at Kevin Garnett, a considerably better talent than AK47, and whose teams built around him were consistently sub par, and he went years without complaining, and actually considering the fact that he's the best player on his team, he really is one of the few that should have been complaining.

It's fair to want these guys to shut up and play.

It makes no sense -- not to me anyway -- to say that they should do so because if they were in "the real world" they'd just get fired for their bad at udes.

[PM5K]

It's fair to want these guys to shut up and play.

It makes no sense -- not to me anyway -- to say that they should do so because if they were in "the real world" they'd just get fired for their bad at udes.

I'm not really sure that's what I said ;-)

I'm not saying they'd get fired, I'm saying your average Joe won't feel sorry for a guy making 60 million that's crying because he's playing seven minutes less than last year and not starting.

Maybe this comparison will get my point across, Manu doesn't cry when he doesn't start.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of other players in this league that don't cry like he does, that are probably in a better position to cry than he is, Manu is a World Champion, an All-Star, and an NBA Champion and he doesn't complain.

So yeah basically he should shut up and play, if guys like Garnett and Manu aren't crying, he sure as shouldn't be...

Something like that...

[Mark in Austin]

Well, Kirilenko would be crazy to do it but if he offered a Derek Fisher-type solution: both parties agree to walk away from the contract; then Utah would be crazy to keep him.

[ploto]

I don't doubt they were already searching every possible option to get rid of him. Any team they were going to deal with already had the upper hand on the Jazz because with his contract and Houdini act in the playoffs I would bet that the Jazz want him gone more than any team particularly wants him.

The Jazz have turned down offers for him.

[Obstructed_View]

LEAVE ANDREI ALONE!!!

Fixed the graphic. Now it makes sense.

Yes, I quoted myself.

[ShoogarBear]

I disagree.

I think comments like that come from people that realize that not every job you have is going to be perfect, and you aren't always going to be totally happy but they don't about it, they do their job and earn their money.

But if they don't like their situation, they look for opportunites to go someplace else, too.

Considering the fact that those comparisons don't work (comparing white/blue collar workers with NBA Players) you can look at Kevin Garnett, a considerably better talent than AK47, and whose teams built around him were consistently sub par, and he went years without complaining, and actually considering the fact that he's the best player on his team, he really is one of the few that should have been complaining.

True, but outside form the personality difference between KG and AK, this is another illustration why the NBA isn't analagous to the real world. Garnett was as much part of the "management" as he was "labor" in that most of the personnel decision were made with him in mind (probably to the point of including him in on some of the bigger ones, e.g., whether to get Sprewell). Also, KG's contract was one of the contributing reasons to why the Twolves were in such a bind.

And if KG wasn't the top dog in Minnesota or was unhappy his role on the team, you don't think he would squawk (I'm not saying that AK is a similar player)?

[SequSpur]

Who gives a . when it comes to things that matter, the Utah Jazz never do.