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Not all citizens are mercenaries. And not all mercenaries are US citizens. Simple logic escapes you.
Why are you losing your so badly?
There is no good reason for the US to allow it when they have a system in place to address the legal issue.
Not all citizens are mercenaries. And not all mercenaries are US citizens. Simple logic escapes you.
Why are you losing your so badly?
According to this qoute, we don't have a legal system to try them.
And now we do?
It's better actually arguing with boutons, atleast he keeps track of his BS, and doesn't contradict himself.
Besides, There's no good reason to mention it, because Maliki has no intention of trying them, you were just trying to invalidate WC's point. Which your rebuttal was not even a factor.
If you mean Blackwater, which is US owned managed and operated by US citizens former special ops and US marines, and not angolans or cubans, then you still fail.
Simple comprehension escapes you.
Why are you losing this argument so badly?
You should really have someone help you read these things.Yep.And now we do?I was addressing WC's point, which he brought up. Show your red ass to him, moderator.Besides, There's no good reason to mention it, because Maliki has no intention of trying them, you were just trying to invalidate WC's point.
if we did have a way to try these people, then Lindsey graham is wasting his time.
I just think it's funny how you like calling people "moderator", male authority must turn you on.
And the references to cheek slapping.... gay.
I see no link showing the exact demographoc composition of Blackwater employees, nor does it matter. It matters for whom they are working.
No, nailing down which code of conduct is to be followed by the contractors is very important.
I know pretending like you have authority turns you on.I just think it's funny how you like calling people "moderator", male authority must turn you on.
Again, you really don't know anything.And the references to cheek slapping.... gay.
I was calling you a baboon.
You are just not very intelligent at all.
Then don't waste your time.
Baboon... A baboon, is one who fails to stay on subject. Again, what does beheading have to do with this dumbass?
Baboons have red asses. Beheading or some other capital punishment is a possible consequence if US security personnel is subject to the Iraqi justice system. Given the relative instability of the Iraqi government, this is a box of worms the US would prefer not to open, and I don't blame them at all.
I may be mistaken, but I think the Supreme Court ruled
back in the 60's that civilians can't be tried under the
USMJ. That civilians even when overseas with the military, it was the wife of a military service member,
who was tried and convicted of murder and the German
government relinquished prosecution to our military and
the wife got it overturned after returning to the U.S.
I may be a bit wrong on some minor points but I think
this was the case. If I remember correctly she walked.
I stand corrected. The law was corrected in 2000.
See article below:
csmonitor.com - The Christian Science Monitor Online
from the September 21, 2007 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0921/p03s03-woiq.html
A legal danger zone for Blackwater
The contractor and other US firms working in Iraq could be subject to prosecution from several quarters.
By Brad Knickerbocker | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
The recent killing of Iraqi civilians by private American security contractors reveals one of the biggest changes in modern US war-fighting – its increased reliance on private companies. It also illustrates difficult questions about the legal standing of those workers that are just starting to be understood.
The nub of the problem: how to deal with civilian contractors who break the law in a seemingly lawless place.
Legal tools to prosecute such wrongdoing are available, experts say. But the relevant US government agencies have been slow to use them.
"There is a basis for the US Department of Justice to conduct an investigation and bring charges under MEJA," says Kevin Lanigan, a New York lawyer and law professor who served as a US Army Reserve judge advocate in Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. MEJA is the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000, which authorizes the Justice Department to prosecute employees of US contractors and subcontractors who commit crimes on foreign soil.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice, the legal system governing those in uniform, was amended by Congress last year to allow charges to be brought against civilian contractors, Mr. Lanigan also notes. But the Pentagon has yet to issue guidelines to military commanders on how to do this, according to Lanigan and others.
In recent congressional testimony, Scott Horton, an international lawyer who teaches at Columbia University in New York, explained the growth in reliance on military contractors. In World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, the share of the total force represented by civilian contract employees seldom exceeded 5 percent. That doubled during the Gulf War. But in the Iraq conflict, the ratio is nearly equal.
"Before the ... 'surge,' for instance, the total community of contractors in Iraq was around 100,000, and the number of uniformed service personnel was around 125,000," Mr. Horton said. "This represents an extremely radical transformation in the force configuration."
Many contract workers provide services once handled in-house by the military, such as food service and freight transport. Some 20,000 to 30,000 perform security functions, according to a July Congressional Research Service report.
Of the dozens of security companies holding contracts in Iraq, the largest and now most notorious is Blackwater USA. The secretive North Carolina-based company was founded in 1997 by former military special operations veterans. It has nine business units providing training at its main facility on 6,000 acres of private land as well as in other locations around the world.
Among other things, the company helps countries develop national and global security policies and military transformation plans.
Blackwater reportedly has received more than $500 million in US government contracts, mostly in Iraq but also for other assignments. Its employees come from many countries, including Fiji and Bulgaria, both of which have lost Blackwater men in Iraq.
It is known to hire "testosterone-filled and aggressive" men, says an active-duty Army officer now stationed in Baghdad's Green Zone. "The Iraqis hate them," the officer says, referring to Blackwater specifically.
From the start, the firm has had connections to high-ranking Republican officials. Its vice chairman is Cofer Black, State Department coordinator for counterterrorism during President Bush's first term. Blackwater founder and former Navy SEAL Erik Prince has been a major donor to Republican committees and candidates.
But those connections are unlikely to help in current cir stances, even if Blackwater is allowed to stay in Iraq.
"Blackwater and other security firms will not be able to function effectively if they must adhere strictly to the letter of Iraqi law," says Loren Thompson, military analyst at the Lexington Ins ute. "Iraq is in the midst of a brutal insurgency in which few of the players pay any attention to the law. Waiting for the police to show up isn't a viable option in today's Iraq."
Can Blackwater and other firms continue to operate in Iraq if their employees are subject to Iraqi law, as Iraqi officials want them to be?
They possibly would face more restrictive rules of engagement and aggressive prosecution by the Iraqi government, says Dina Rasor, coauthor of the book "Betraying Our Troops: The Destructive Results of Privatizing War" and a longtime investigator of military spending. "Even though many of the Blackwater employees may be willing to work for an approved company, they may think twice about operating under laws that the Iraqi government can enforce. They may not want to face Iraqi jail."
In any case, the problem of oversight remains. Defense Department spending on contracts rose nearly 80 percent over the past decade, while the number of Pentagon employees tracking such contracts dropped by some 40 percent, says Peter Singer, a foreign policy specialist at the Brookings Ins ution in Washington. "Basically you have more and more contracts with less and less people overseeing them," he says.
No matter how Blackwater's situation in Iraq turns out, a sound legal regimen for holding contractors accountable is still needed. Says Lanigan, "Right now, we don't have that."
Here is the link about the change of law
Last edited by xrayzebra; 09-23-2007 at 11:56 AM.
thats what i said from the beginning. make the cash without fear of consequences. what little kid didn't like old westerns?
I don't know who's a bigger idiot: gtown for being, well, a total idiot, or chumpie for entering into a debate with the idiot. Eh, it's gtown by a mile.
I am starting to think that a few of the regulars here dont want to explore topics from different view points, moreso than they want to be able to call someone a -monkey in all seriousness without the inevitable beating you would take if you said that to another man's face.
I dont know how or where some of you were raised, I was born in a small city outside Detroit, suburban dreams....Most everything I write, I write with a smile or a laugh. Only once in my time on ST did I actually lose my patience with another individual (sorry Yoni). I like to think I am speaking directly to another individual and bring the appropriate respect another person deserves as much as I do.
I mean, honestly now, have you ever been to a bar? Or a public gathering of any sort? People have been beaten for far less than what is said on this forum. I am no Chuck Liddell by any stretch of your imagination, but if some of you used the same phraseology to me in person, I'd knock your teeth out plain and simple.
I am just surprised by how quickly and predictably a thread can devolve into taunts and attacks when the distance between the two opposing viewpoints is minute, to say the least.
Continue on.
/rant
Irony: someone from Detroit giving a lesson on civility.
myself, i would completely exhaust all efforts to avoid physical confrontation regardless of spoken insult.
there is a divide between political ideals thats unlikely to shrink, barring a catastrophe that forces opposing sides to count on each other for survival. the climate is ripe for just such an event.
Im not from Detroit.
PWNED! pheer teh 5kllz...
Actually all your posts are written with a sense of smug superiority, and declaring your superoiority is an attack in itself.
It's an interenet message board. Get over yourself.
you're not from Detroit, but you moved there.......deliberately?
I don't say I'm better than everyone. It's self-evident.
elpimpo4cc, I see only one problem with the pics for a Jarheads Dream. I haven't seen one yet that plays pool with BCA rules.
I know that. I've always been told that I write exactly like I speak. I cant find the exact post(s), but I have made it clear to others that it is not my intention. I have no delusions of being smarter or brighter or better than anyone else here. Quite the contrary, I know for a fact I am one of the least-informed and un-read here.
I dont think I am superior to anyone. What? Someone points out the lack of civility and somehow you misconstrue that into his declaration of superiority?! Come again?and declaring your superiority is an attack in itself.
Quite true. I couldnt possibly be more over myself, my good man. There was a time when I was a teenager that I seriously thought I was smarter than everyone else. It was about 10 years ago that reality (literally) punched me in the face. Being taught humility is quite a refreshing experience when viewed in hindsight. Best beating I ever took.It's an interenet message board. Get over yourself.
But regardless, some people say it and dont mean it, but I believe sincerely that I do.
And don't call me Doris..............DarkReign I know that. I've always been told that I write exactly like I speak. I cant find the exact post(s), but I have made it clear to others that it is not my intention. I have no delusions of being smarter or brighter or better than anyone else here. Quite the contrary, I know for a fact I am one of the least-informed and un-read here.
Sorry DR, I couldn't resist.
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