Mets melting down a 7 game lead with 14 to play.
Wow stupid , you really got me there. Considering we are .5 out of first, while leading the wild card, and are going for our third straight NL West, I fail to see what is surprising you. Care to explain what you're laughing about?
Wow three division championships
Whew, yeah those are fantastic
Win 1 ring, let alone 10. then You can run smack at a Cardinal fan.
Also, win more than 1 game in 3 series vs the Cardinals too
I'm curious -- does that mean that Cardinals fan can't run smack at Yankees fan?
Not much no.
Yankee Fan has ownage of alot.
Considering the topic of this thread, your reply "padresWow three division championships
Whew, yeah those are fantastic
Win 1 ring, let alone 10. then You can run smack at a Cardinal fan.
Also, win more than 1 game in 3 series vs the Cardinals too" was laughable. Why would it be a surprise that a team that's won two straight division les has a chance at winning a third straight le?
I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?
Baseball must have a long playoff if they take every team but one to the postseason.Considering the topic of this thread, your reply "padres
I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?
after losing a hall of fame third baseman and a Cy Young ace pitcher in the first game of the season, not one bit.I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
If they had had Carpenter all year, the Cardinals would be sitting at 90 wins and preparing to play whoever in the playoffs.
Carpenter, Wainwright, Looper would've gotten em to the NCLS, but not likely to the World Series.
BTW Jackass, I've done my best to be civil to you and you've thrown it in my face, so your BS ripping on Ankiel for no reason, is the reason I said Padres.
'The team that really suprised me?
The Detroit Tigers.
No clue what happened to those guys...
Injuries. Lots of them. Not just two guys.
Rogers missed 5 months.
Zumaya missed 5 months.
Rodney missed 2 months.
Sheffield missed 1.5 months.
Bonderman melted down after the ASG (said he was hurt, who knows?)
Robertson, the guy teams used to load their lineup with Righties because Lefties couldnt hit him for (like 0.187 BAA), became ultra-hittable by everyone.
All that is just the pitching. Are these excuses? I guess, dont really know. Its reality is all I know. They'll be back next year and the year after and the year after and the year....
Unlike the Indians. This is their one chance at the World Series. After this year, theyre not even the same team. Penny-pinching owners.
^what he said
Rolen a Hall-of-Famer?
Did I miss that day when the Cardinals lured George Brett out of retirement?
Look at how many gold gloves hes won, and come talk to me.
I believe hes only topped by Brooks Robinson in number of gold gloves won.
But that wouldn't fit your new childish agenda.
Rolen has a career .283 batting average as well as a .372 on-base percentage and a .507 slugging percentage. He has 1,558 Hits, 261 Home runs, and 1,012 RBIs, as well as having scored 954 Runs (as of August 31, 2007).
He went 4-for-5 with two singles, a double, and his 261st home run against the Milwaukee Brewers on August 15, 2007.
He played in his 1,500th game (5,480 ABs) on August 22, 2007.
However, while Rolen is a fine hitter, it is his glove that attracts the most attention. In a twelve-year career, Rolen has won seven Gold Glove Awards. Only Hall of Famers Brooks Robinson (16) and Mike Schmidt (10) have more. Schmidt himself has said that Rolen is a better gloveman than he was, and many analysts and baseball experts agree
Yeah thats not a hall of fame player.
If Rolen is healthy for 3 more years, he will tie Schmidt with gold gloves, and his 283 batting average will more than likely stay the same, or go up next year after his clean up surgery.
Once again, sorry to bust on your childish agenda of wanting to for some reason hate on me and the Cardinals.
Injuries. Lots of them. Not just two guys.
The cardinals feel your pain .
sorry Tpark but i don't think Rolen will get in.
He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?sorry Tpark but i don't think Rolen will get in.
The standards must have shot up recently
The gold gloves are good, but that isn't a great HOF stat. The 280 average is exactly that - average. 350 HR is average. These days hitters have to have a combination of:
1) 500+ HR
2) .300+ career average
3) outstanding clutch ability and leadership leading directly to championships (i.e. Jeter)
Jim Thome has much better numbers than Rolen and I don't think he'll be a HOF unless he plays a lot longer and puts up more numbers, and he has 500+ HR. His problem is that he didn't really achieve anything great in his career and has flown completely under the radar for so long.
yes they have... some 500 HR hitters wont make the cut.
media cares nothing about gold gloves.
I couldn't care less about the Cardinals, but I do quarrel with bad arguments -- it's not personal. You took me to task last year for my honest opinion that the Cardinals would struggle in the post-season; why can't I argue with you about a difference of opinion concerning this year's Cardinals without making it personal. That you happen to be the primary Cardinals fan around here is the only reason it could even appear personal, and I assure you it's not.
Yeah thats not a hall of fame player.
If Rolen is healthy for 3 more years, he will tie Schmidt with gold gloves, and his 283 batting average will more than likely stay the same, or go up next year after his clean up surgery.
Once again, sorry to bust on your childish agenda of wanting to for some reason hate on me and the Cardinals.
As for the rest of your "argument," Gold Gloves have only rarely gotten a player into the Hall of Fame. I think that trend will slowly go away because Gold Gloves are becoming jokes in many instances -- that Andruw Jones continues winning Gold Gloves is evidence to me that the award has virtually no value anymore. I don't dispute that Rolen is a fine fielder, but I also don't think that Gold Gloves are a measure of his quality as a defender.
With that said, I think that the Hall of Fame in coming years will be a haven for guys with huge offensive numbers and only for the most spectacular of the all-glove, no-hit guys. You'd better be a dominant fielder (on the Ozzie Smith level) to get into the Hall on the basis of your fielding. For all that Rolen does, he's not that.
if there is a question about Thome getting in, then Rolen is not a lock
Nah. Carpenter, as good as he is, is not worth 12-13 wins by himself.
Johan Santana - at his best - is only worth slightly less than 11.
350 HRs and a .280 average definitely are NOT good enough for the HOF nowadays.
The 10 gold gloves make it an argument (although the award has become a joke* - even if Rolen is one of the few deserving). But outside of Brooks and Ozzie, few players have made it into the hall with a huge push from their defense. And those 2 guys had defining defensive highlight reels that everybody can remember - Rolen makes all the plays, but not many non-cardinal fans can conjure up specific defensive memories of him.
*When Palmeiro gets a gold glove for playing less than 1/4 of the season in the field and Jeter is about to get his 3rd gold glove in a row - the award should be completely invalidated and discontinued. It's a joke.
Standards have always been tough for 3B. That's why there is only 10 in the HOF.
Chipper Jones will probably go to the HOF.
Rolen has no shot.
it's actually occurred to me that those numbers are remarkably similar to those of Ron Santo - who has continually been overlooked.
Santo only has 5 gold gloves, but he put up his offensive stats in an era in which it was FAR FAR more difficult to do so than Rolen's.
Santo was also arguably the best 3b of his era (I'll take Brooks, but I can see the debate). Thanks to Chipper and now A-Rod, that's not the case with Rolen.
Last edited by K-State Spur; 09-29-2007 at 12:00 PM.
Nah. Carpenter, as good as he is, is not worth 12-13 wins by himself.
Uh, lets see, Carpenter, a Cy young, pitching games instead of guys like brad Thompson or Randy Keisler or others wouldn't have won them more games?
Uh, lets see, Carpenter, a Cy young, pitching games instead of guys like brad Thompson or Randy Keisler or others wouldn't have won them more games?
In his CY YOUNG SEASON, Chris Carpenter had a WARP3 (wins above replacement player) of 8. Now, that's a very good number. But it's not 12 or 13. Fans tend to vastly over-estimate how much an individual player can swing the overall record.
For example, since the Cardinals didn't lose EVERY game that Thompson pitched - in fact, they won more than half of his 17 starts - it's unfair to expect more than a handful of extra wins with Carpenter, even if he is the best pitcher in the NL and would put up much superior stats.
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