Spurs To Retire Avery Johnson's Number 6

[picnroll]

If Don Harris had kept his fat mouth shut Manu would be wearing 6.

[angel_luv]

I think that this might be the first jersey retirement that I will not be in attendance.

I am planning to boycott the ceremony as well. However I may end up staying only because there are some train wrecks you can't help but watch.

But ugh to think of his jersey in the rafters with our beautiful Championship banners. Ugh!!!!!!!!!!

[sa_butta]

Was he really that great for us that he deserves to be retired??

All the time he spent in San Antonio he had one really good season and to me that doesn't warrant a Jersey retirement.

[sa_butta]

Exactly.

Too many people think that a retired jersey is just about stats and its not. There are no set rules or criteria for jersey retirement. Its usually what about what that person meant to the franchise and the community. There are players on almost every team in the league who didn't win a ring, or have monster stats or are going to the Hall of Fame but they have a special place in the hearts and minds of the organization and city. Avery has that to a lot of fans. I think that may have changed for some given his current job. I don't think you would see the same rancor about that if he coached almost anywhere else.

Personally, I am ok with his number going up, but then again I would not have been heart broken if it didn't.

And for the same reasons as above, Bowen should have his retired. Not awesome stats and will not be in the HOF but he has created the same kind of place with fans as Avery has and, like AJ was, is big in the community.

I see where you are coming from there, but Im not exactly thrilled about it.

[Spurminator]

I've said from the beginning of this debate that I have no preference either way, and I still don't. But congrats to AJ.

[foodie2]

This is pitiful. IMHO it cheapens the honor for the other people who were more deserving.

[degenerate_gambler]

If Don Harris had kept his fat mouth shut...

That's impossible..

[SequSpur]

Well great they finally topped the Scola debacle...

This organization is getting better every day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Behrooz24]

Ahhhhhhhhh no!

[Oh, Gee!!]

kudos to A.J.

[SenorSpur]

ok, so if the Spurs are retiring Avery's jersey then Manu, Parker, Bowen are DEFINITELY being retired. Its become an absolute must now if it wasn't before.

There's no question that Manu, TP and Bowen will have their jerseys retired - regardless of what happens with A.J. , these three guys, along with Duncan, have been the backbone and core contributors of the past 3 le teams.

[MajorMike]

Lame. I personally don't think Elliott even did enough to have his retired.

[fatsack]

then i want Manu, Parker, Bowen, Alvin Robertson, Mario Elie, Vinny Del Negro, Terry mings, and Danny Ferry's jerseys retired also.

[Oh, Gee!!]

then i want Manu, Parker, Bowen, Alvin Robertson, Mario Elie, Vinny Del Negro, Terry mings, and Danny Ferry's jerseys retired also.

I'll give you Manu, Parker, and Bowen when they retire; the other ones-I'm not so sure.

[Extra Stout]

When they retired 00, that opened the floodgate for a lot of marginal players to have their numbers retired.

I ask only, for Avery, rather than retiring #6 in his honor, that they retire #67.

[samikeyp]

I ask only, for Avery, rather than retiring #6 in his honor, that they retire #67.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

When they retired 00, that opened the floodgate for a lot of marginal players to have their numbers retired..

Agree 100%. Johnny Moore having his number retired was a joke. Retiring AJ's number is also a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the leadership that AJ brought to that championship team, and I suppose it's something that you can't quantify in a statistic, but he just wasn't that great of a player. He was one of the worst jump shooting point guards in NBA history and he was a marginal defender. He never played in an All-star game. He never led the league in assists. He was a leader and he hit the le clinching shot. And he gave funny interviews. He got a ring. He shouldn't get a banner.

Besides, Walter Berry is the true #6. I can't believe they ever let AJ wear his number.

[Texas_Ranger]

It's cool with me.

[SenorSpur]

Agree 100%. Johnny Moore having his number retired was a joke. Retiring AJ's number is also a joke.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the leadership that AJ brought to that championship team, and I suppose it's something that you can't quantify in a statistic, but he just wasn't that great of a player. He was one of the worst jump shooting point guards in NBA history and he was a marginal defender. He never played in an All-star game. He never led the league in assists. He was a leader and he hit the le clinching shot. And he gave funny interviews. He got a ring. He shouldn't get a banner.

Besides, Walter Berry is the true #6. I can't believe they ever let AJ wear his number.

Love the Walter Berry comment. In that case, Alvin Robertson is the true #6. I can't believe they ever let Duncan wear his number either.

[samikeyp]

Love the Walter Berry comment. In that case, Alvin Robertson is the true #6. I can't believe they ever let Duncan wear his number either.

21 maybe?

Besides...21 should have ended with Irv Kiffin.

And they gave Goo Kennedy's number to some guy named Robinson!

[sandman]

Awkward.

Played in a total of 10 seasons for the Spurs, but that was spread out over 3 different stints, the last of which was 7 years. Played for a total of 6 different teams over 16 seasons, changing teams 10 times.

In 16 years, he averaged double figures in points only 6 times. 4 of those times were between 10-11 ppg and twice he was at 13 ppg. Career assist numbers are 5.5 apg and only once had more than 8 apg. Considering that he started all but about 35 games in his 7-year stretch with the Spurs, those were pretty mediocre numbers. Never was an All-Star; never made an All-NBA team.

THAT is the trademark of a journeyman player.

Throw in the fact that the Spurs did not want to resign him, and he eventually played/coaches for the Mavericks, and I am not sure that all the "L'il General" sentimentality is enough to overcome all of that.

AJ was outspoken and took advantage of DRob's personality to create his "L'il General" persona, but in all reality the catalyst of the '99 team was Elie. DRob and TD brought the talent, Mario brought the heart. It was Elie that called the team out and jump started the first championship run.

At least with Johnny Moore there is an argument that his illness shortened career showed the statistical merit to go along with the sentimentality. Sean Elliott only had 7 full seasons and 4 half seasons due to his illness, but he also had the stats and All-Star appearances to go with the Memorial Day Miracle.

AJ has nothing but sentimentality, and to me, that is not enough. If the Spurs would not have won the '99 le, we would not even be debating this.

[2centsworth]

When are you people going to figure out the game is 80% mental and 20% athletic ability.

AJ had the mental down pact. I'm just not a fan of his boyfriend Mark Cuban.

[sandman]

When are you people going to figure out the game is 80% mental and 20% athletic ability.

I agree.

Sincerely,

Amara Stoudamire

[SenorSpur]

Awkward.

Played in a total of 10 seasons for the Spurs, but that was spread out over 3 different stints, the last of which was 7 years. Played for a total of 6 different teams over 16 seasons, changing teams 10 times.

In 16 years, he averaged double figures in points only 6 times. 4 of those times were between 10-11 ppg and twice he was at 13 ppg. Career assist numbers are 5.5 apg and only once had more than 8 apg. Considering that he started all but about 35 games in his 7-year stretch with the Spurs, those were pretty mediocre numbers. Never was an All-Star; never made an All-NBA team.

THAT is the trademark of a journeyman player.

Throw in the fact that the Spurs did not want to resign him, and he eventually played/coaches for the Mavericks, and I am not sure that all the "L'il General" sentimentality is enough to overcome all of that.

AJ was outspoken and took advantage of DRob's personality to create his "L'il General" persona, but in all reality the catalyst of the '99 team was Elie. DRob and TD brought the talent, Mario brought the heart. It was Elie that called the team out and jump started the first championship run.

At least with Johnny Moore there is an argument that his illness shortened career showed the statistical merit to go along with the sentimentality. Sean Elliott only had 7 full seasons and 4 half seasons due to his illness, but he also had the stats and All-Star appearances to go with the Memorial Day Miracle.

AJ has nothing but sentimentality, and to me, that is not enough. If the Spurs would not have won the '99 le, we would not even be debating this.

Wonderful points.

There is a tendency to glorify and cannonize a player's career after he's long retired. As you mentioned, we forget that AJ was a journeyman PG until he finally settlled here in his 3rd stint. I could argue that if John Lucas' off-court issues hasn't resurfaced, AJ would have never found a home here.

From a statistical perspective, you could certainly make a better case for Johnny Moore. He was a far better PG that Avery ever was. Had his career not been cut short, AJ would have never eclipsed his club record as the all-time leader in assists.

That said, I'm becoming more convinced that this honor for A.J is more sentimental than anything else. Since he and Pop are very close, it should not come as a surprise.

[sandman]

When they retired 00, that opened the floodgate for a lot of marginal players to have their numbers retired.

For a span of 5 years, 00 averaged 12 points, 9.5 assists and 2.5 steals per game. While his ppg average was a bit low, he also played most of those 5 years with Gervin, Mitc and Gilmore, who were 25+, 20+ and 18+ ppg scorers, respectively during that time frame.

Heck, for that matter, why don't we argue about Silas having his number in the rafters. 8 years with the Spurs, and outside of a 16 ppg average between his ABA/NBA days, all of his other stats were below mediocre for a point guard. Averaged over 5 assists only once in his career and averaged 1 steal per game over his 8 seasons.

How is Silas statistically more deserving than Moore? I would argue that both deserve to be in the rafters based on on-court accomplishments and a high degree of sentimentality. However, AJ does not belong in their company. He was not the scorer like Silas, nor the stereotypical PG like Moore. He supposedly had heart, but since he couldn't win it either without Duncan, I personally believe he was more mouth than heart.