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What do James and Parker have to do with anything?
Neither one of them would be an MVP candidate for defense.
According to your logic, James should more deserve MVP than Parker!
What do James and Parker have to do with anything?
Neither one of them would be an MVP candidate for defense.
Parker won MVP because he has much better teammates.
BTW, paker was ranked no.2 in point guard list for defense.
Again, that doesn't have anything to do with this particular formula being flawed.
How does that have anything to do with their ability to play defense?
Some spurs' fans are so interesting!
Manu sacrificed himself a lot for the whole team. But they cannot even tolerate him to be ranked at no.1 position even in an unofficial list.
Some spurs' fans are so interesting!
Manu sacrificed himself a lot for the whole team. But they cannot even tolerate him to be ranked at no.1 position even in an unofficial list.
It's logical that he'd be on top on a lot of lists. However, this isn't one of them.
This one is also logic.
As I said above, many team don't use sg to guard sg. For example, Tmac is ranked at no.3 in this list. In fact, he didn't guard best sg either, Battier did.
It's logical that he'd be on top on a lot of lists. However, this isn't one of them.
I don't know what you don't understand but it's not logical because it assumes that every player (not just Manu) guards the person of the same position.
You might say many players don't, and that's true. But if one SG only guards the opposing shooting guard 5% of the time ... And another SG guards the opposing shooting guard 40% of the time ... And another SG guards the opposing shooting guard 80% of the time, then you can't compare the players, get it?
I also don't understand why Parker won MVP since it means most valuable player. I think James more deserves it.
Then you should write to the journalists who voted and ask them why they voted for him.
Then you should write to the author of this artile and ask him whey he ranked that way.
BTW, I am a Manu's fan and also a Spurs' fan. I am really happy to see him to be recognized, even this is not an offical list. I think it is uncessary to be so serious about it.
I think one reason Manu is so highly rated on this list is because of his playmaking ability. He might let a man past him, but chances are that guy doesn't score because of our post rotation.
And even if he does, it's only 2 points, and for every 2-4 points Manu gives up, he comes up with a steal, block, or charge taken. Stats won't show deflections and wear on the opponent, but he does that well too, especially since he can wear a defender out as well as the man he's guarding.
But Kori makes a good point -- he's not guarding the other team's primary scorer.
That combined with the fact that stats tend to be heavily favored towards steals and TOs and it's easy to see how this dynamic emerged. We have yet to list a stat for just locking down on your man and not letting him score. There really needs to be a "defended" stat that takes into account the avg. scoring ratio of a player and compares it to the amount he scores while being guarded by a particular player. You could also add in the number of times he penetrates past the other player but doesn't score as a slight detraction to the defending player in question: This would remove the effect that players like Duncan have on saving a defender's butt repeatedly.
If it was just based on opinion (like MVP) then it would be logical to ask the writer.
I already know why they ranked them that way. They use a bad formula. And I'm not serious about it. You just don't seem to get it.
They will never really have a defended stat because you'd have to look at every single play and determine who each player was guarding, if there were any switches, missed rotations, etc. That's why defensive analysis comes more from watching the games and asserting an opinion, rather than trying to break it down statistically.
Okay. I'll give it a shot.
On the PER Defense Metric:
1. The PER Defense formula assumes that Ginobili is guarding the other team's shooting guard.
2. Ginobili rarely, if ever, defends the opposite shooting guard if that player is the opponent's primary scoring threat.
3. Bowen normally guards the opponent's best perimeter scorer, which will be the starting shooting guard on most teams.
4. Another factor that plays a small role is that Ginobili does not always play starter's minutes.
5. For these reasons, the formula is flawed. The formula looked at the Spurs' opponents' starting shooting guards. Since this was the lowest opponent PER number, Ginobili was ranked # 1, despite the fact that Bowen, not Ginobili, is usually guarding the opponent's shooting guard.
On the Finals MVP:
1. The Finals MVP always goes to a member of the winning team. I believe that this is actually a requirement for the award, not just custom.
2. In recent memory, the voters have looked almost exclusively at offense.
3. In recent memory, the voters have only awarded the Finals MVP to starters. (I didn't check, and my memory gets a little fuzzy before 1988.)
4. "Valuable" is a tricky word in the English language. It is not susceptible to a precise definition. (One man't trash is another man's treasure.) Most people understand the most valuable player to be the player with the best overall performance. As mentioned above, the award usually goes to the player with the best offensive performance, not the best overall performance.
5. Putting all this together, we soon realize that the Finals MVP is fairly restricted. Only a: 1) starter 2) with name recognition 3) who is a primary scorer in the series 4) and on the winning team will be considered.
6. By these criteria, LeBron James was never even under consideration. Only Parker and Duncan really had a chance at the award.
IMHO, Bowen always deserves some serious consideration for the Finals MVP, especially this year. However, Parker was absolutely critical. Cleveland was the toughest defense the Spurs faced, and Parker was the only player able to find and exploit a mismatch. Without Parker, the Spurs would have won, but I don't think they could have swept them. Also, by going only four games, the Finals did not last long enough for Ginobili and Duncan to recover from their sub-par games.
At least Manu isn't Greek.
What are you smoking? Would the Cavs have lost MORE if James wasn't on their team? How are you valuable in a single series to your team if you get swept?
With James: 4-0 sweep
Without James: 4-0 sweep.
With Parker: 4-0 sweep.
Without Parker: 4-2 maybe?
Now explain to me why James is more valuable as a Finals player to the Cavs. A loss is a loss.
Simple fix: Just hire some baseball jocks to do the scorekeeping. They'd love that challenge.
Well said, however, I don't agree that Cleveland was the toughest defense the Spurs played. Utah and Denver were much more physical, for example.
I agree that Hollinger's formula is flawed, and I agree Manu doesn't guard the best SGs in the league, but I think you (and others) underestimate Manu's defense. I would say he's our best exterior defender after Bowen. He frustrates his share of good players, and often does the best job when Bowen isn't on the floor.
I wouldn't argue with that. I probably should have said "most successful," not "toughest." I would like to credit Cleveland, rather than thinking the Spurs' offense just went to sleep for two games. (Honestly, it's probably a little of both.)
Manu is probably the best intangibles guard on defense in the game. He's so quick and smart at getting into lanes and disrupting plays. He just loves to run amok and wreak havoc out there.
When you look at our guardplay, and our post defenders (hopefully Oberto REALLY steps it up now that he played solidly in the playoffs), this team has to be among the best defensive squads ever.
Parker is a top 5 defensive PG now.
Manu is a solid defender with great intangibles.
Bowen - Best defender in the game at his position, top 5 in the NBA.
Duncan - Best defender in the game. Period.
Oberto - The slight question mark, but a really smart player.
Then then you have Finely and Horry who each can have great nights, and Horry might be worth his creaky legs if for no other reason than his brain on the court is a huge asset. He can coach our other players about how to set up for certain offensive looks.
How amazingly fortunate we are. Should be set up for another le run this year. If we had D-Rob anywhere near his peak, this team wouldn't be the greatest defensive team in NBA history, it would be the greatest team in all of sports! ...perchance to dream.
Are you stupid?
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