How Good Would The Spurs Have Been?

[Marcus Bryant]

They didn't do it in '03.

What you call "doubles" was simply the Lakers collapsing on TD and TP when they got into the paint. A lot of times it was a Shaq-Malone sandwich. Spurs were owned in the offensive paint in that '04 series.

[Marcus Bryant]

As for the '01 and '02 series, the Lakers had better frontcourts than in '03 and the Spurs' perimeter players were much less of a threat to penetrate.

It's no coincidence that in the series with the weakest Laker frontcourt and the strongest Spurs frontcourt that the Spurs won. Outside looks are opened up by interior play. This is pretty basic stuff when it comes to bball and dare I say it exposes the bull ters in this forum.

When on offense you have Rasho relegated to standing outside of the paint far too many times just watching (Duncan was in that spot far too many times as well) then you have the recipe that gives you 4 straight losses after torching the Laker D in the first 72 minutes of the series.

Lakers slowed the game down and dominated the defensive paint. Story of the series. Poor shooting was a byproduct of the success the Lakers had in defending the interior.

This is precisely why I express such concern about the physicality of the Spurs' frontcourt, and in particular, Rasho Nesterovic. The Spurs are still vulnerable in this regard. I think Danny Fortson's performances in the first two Spurs-Sonics games this season are a prime example. Seattle has been able to do a poor imitation of what the Lakers did to the Spurs last playoffs so far.

Also, this is why I have found myself ambivalent to the possible addition of Karl Malone to the Spurs' roster. If healthy, he could again help a team to play the kind of defense that stymied the Spurs' offense last postseason. If he's healthy, Miami could very well do it. Minnesota could do it with KG and the rest of its odd assortment of bigman misfits.

With the Spurs, you'd have him and TD working the defensive paint with Rasho and 3 trying to be a 4 Horry reduced to bit players in physical contests.

, if Malone wasn't so much a le chasing that he was looking for the surest thing (though that didn't pan out last season) he'd go to Seattle or Phoenix. He could very well put the Suns or Sonics in a position to win against a Spurs frontcourt featuring Radosoft.

[whottt]

They didn't do it in '03.

What you call "doubles" was simply the Lakers collapsing on TD and TP when they got into the paint. A lot of times it was a Shaq-Malone sandwich. Spurs were owned in the offensive paint in that '04 series.

They weren't just collapsing on Duncan...they were doubling him without the ball to make it difficult to get him the ball, and when Parker penetrated they doubled him with, quick, usually with Hedo's man. I don't see how you could have missed this...do you think Payton and Fisher all of a sudden got faster?

They didn't do it nonstop but they did it at crucial moments of the games, and it worked every time. They again tested Bowen, just like they did in 02, only this time they quickly found out his shot didn't work.

We also didn't have anyone on the perimeter that scared them as much as Jack did. Jack tore them up in the 03 regular season, Jack was the main reason we swept them.

Just look at the amount of shots Hedo and Bowen got after the first two games of the series Vs the first two...if your own eyes are letting you down.

They were open, they were open by design.

LA picked who they wanted to beat them, Phil Jackson is a master of doing it when his back is against the wall...he is a master at guessing who the weak link is...he doesn't like to double but when he does it he does it with great effectiveness and he has used doubles on Duncan nearly every time we met them in the post season.

In 03 he couldn't. He tried to do it. Bowen smoked Kobe's ass when he tried it.

[whottt]

What happend in 03 was that we really didn't have a weak link, plus Fox(who is a master double team player, as is Horry) got injured, George was gimpy and they just weren't able to pull it off.

In 03, instead of Duncan facing a doulbe or Fox, Horry, Shaq triple team without the ball(like he got at times in 02), in the 4th quarter...he was getting Shaq 1 on 1 and that's why his play was so memorable.

You really diss Duncan when you say Karl Malone shut him down...because he didn't....in fact Duncan was shoving about 30ppg up Karl's ass when Karl wasn't getting help...even with his little chair pull. Malone had a lot of help.

Anyway, to each their own, I'm not going to change your mind.....I'll give you that LA was touger inside on their offense, but that's not Rasho's fault...and we were weaker when it came to O rebounds..that could be Rasho's fault...but more likely it was because Malik didn't get his usual minutes, Horry has no business guarding Shaq( he stretched his limit to the max to be able to guard Duncan), and also because Willis was suddenly ooooooolllllllddddd.

[BronxCowboy]

Why does every other thread eventually devolve into a discussion of why we lost to the Lakers last year?

[Marcus Bryant]

They weren't just collapsing on Duncan...they were doubling him without the ball to make it difficult to get him the ball, and when Parker penetrated they doubled him with, quick, usually with Hedo's man. I don't see how you could have missed this...do you think Payton and Fisher all of a sudden got faster?

I didn't miss anything. You seem to be catching glimpses of what happened, yet you still seem unable to see the big picture. The Lakers D was focused and able to exert itself in the defensive paint in 2004. They were much more able to focus on defending TD in the post and, in general, dominating the paint and relegating the Spurs to one and done on most offensive possessions.

Now if ( and I should say IF) Rasho and Horry were able to get something going inside then TD would have had greater room to operate and the Spurs' perimeter players would have had more opportunities to penetrate and attack the basket or set up their teammates spotting up outside.

What happend in 03 was that we really didn't have a weak link, plus Fox(who is a master double team player, as is Horry) got injured, George was gimpy and they just weren't able to pull it off.

There you go. Laker frontcourt was the weakest the Spurs had ever faced in 2003. Thank you.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why does every other thread eventually devolve into a discussion of why we lost to the Lakers last year?

Because this Spurs team had the least personnel turnover it's ever experienced over the last few offseasons and was defeated while executing the same basic offensive and defensive game plan that this season's Spurs team is using.

[Marcus Bryant]

Just look at the amount of shots Hedo and Bowen got after the first two games of the series Vs the first two...if your own eyes are letting you down.

They were open, they were open by design.

LA picked who they wanted to beat them, Phil Jackson is a master of doing it when his back is against the wall...he is a master at guessing who the weak link is...he doesn't like to double but when he does it he does it with great effectiveness and he has used doubles on Duncan nearly every time we met them in the post season.

What Jackson did was change up his game plan at halftime of Game 2. Pack in the paint on defense and run a methodical, ball control offense. Recall how the series never returned to an open court game after that?

Quan y is not quality. The Spurs had much better looks in the '03 series. Why? Again, because they weren't getting the penetration of the interior Laker D that they had before.

If you want to say the Lakers decided who they wanted to have beat them, that they wanted to expose a "weak link," it was the man playing opposite Tim Duncan in the frontcourt. Rasho and Horry failed. Pop failed to give Malik a real opportunity to try. Series over. Pop starts going off on Rasho's lack of aggression and has yet to stop. Pop found it in his heart to forgive Malik and now he's back in the rotation.

[ChumpDumper]

PJ woulda been nice -- but $8 million when he's 37?

Shinn can keep him.

I still would trade Malik for Kurt Thomas, so I'm a bit of a hypocrite -- but at least there wouldn't be both those contracts on the books.

[Solid D]

Well, I remember the threads and the bigman replacement choices to fill David's void two years ago.

As I remember it was Jason Kidd...what is the question? For bigs, Elton Brand was on the top of the list early then Jermaine O'Neal. Then on it fell off to PJ Brown, Brad Miller, Rasho Nesterovic and Michael Olowakandi.

After JO fell off the list, I was hoping the Spurs would land PJ Brown because of his toughness and ability to defend and rebound - sending Timmy to jump center.

PJ was the Spurs' choice too, but he made the family decision to stay in NO and parlayed more money with his visit to SA. That made Rasho the easy choice for POP.

[T Park]

What if what if what if.


What if Jermaine O'Neal signed here instead of resigning in Indiana.

Apparently had they not lied to him telling him they were to fire Isaih Thomas then he wouldve signed here.

No Brent Barry, but we wouldn't have a "soft" center.

[Jimcs50]

Rasho does what he is supposed to do, and that is stay out of TD's way, grab O Rebs, tip rebs back out, play D.

The Spurs have him on a short leash. Accept it.

[SequSpur]

A horses ass > Rasho.

[Jimcs50]

My dead grandmother > Sequ at golf.

[SequSpur]

Damn... That's probably true though.

[ZStomp]

Imagine if they signed PJ Brown instead of Rasho Nesterovic. As you can see in this article, they were close to signing him. Brown is an awesome defender and has a good mid-range game. He's also 90% at the line.

The Spurs' defense would be impossible to score on if they had Brown guarding the other team's best post player.

Oh well.

Go Rasho.

PJ signed that contract that summer the Spurs went after him.

If the Spurs signed him for that....the wouldn't have had the money they had the last two summers. So this team we have now + PJ wouldn't be.

[wildbill2u]

You know something? When some of the contributors here quit calling each other names, they can really put some thoughtful BB analysis on a thread.

Even when they have different points of view, they can make a logical case for their opinions. It's really refreshing. Wish it would happen more often.