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You've also established that Duncan has missed more playoff games than Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and O'Neal COMBINED.
Basically, it appears that dominant centers have shown the ability to play through pain when necessary.
Nice research
Only two missed games for Shaq is pretty impressive, seeing as how he has played something like two-thirds of his regular season games. He has never played 82 games in a season but played something ~164 consecutive playoff games. That's interesting and points to laziness more than it does being injury prone.
You've also established that Duncan has missed more playoff games than Russell, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and O'Neal COMBINED.
Basically, it appears that dominant centers have shown the ability to play through pain when necessary.
On one hand, you could argue that if Shaq hadn't been so lazy, kept in shape, and played 75-80 games a year, he would have been retired by now.
But on the other, you could also argue that if he had a Karl Malone-like ethic, he would still be averaging 20 and 10 and the Heat would be winning 60 games in the East. Or he'd still be with the Lakers.
Some of that is luck and timing. All of those guys had at least one year where they were out for an extended time with an injury. ( , Chamberlain only played 12 regular season games in 69-70, and then 18 playoff games.) Duncan was apparently the only one whose most serious injury came at the very end of the year.
But then, if Duncan had been playing in the 60s or 70s, they would have thrown his ass back out on the court for a meniscal tear.
Or if Karl Malone would have had O'Neal's ability to up his game in the playoffs, Malone would have found a way to win a championship with a top three point guard of all-time and a top ten coach of all-time.
Oh, I'm not going to defend Malone's playoff performance. But I just can't praise a guy for sandbagging during the regular season.
And Jerry Sloan, top ten coach? I'll have to think about that one.
Pretty good comparison.
Hakeem didn't peaked that late. His 88/89 or 89/90 seasons (26 to 29) are arguably his best seasons and at 34 he had already started declining.
I'm not sure if there is a optimum height for health reasons, but the "really big" bigs decline fast. It is probably a result of their weight more than anything else. Duncan is not that heavy, which will help.
I have seen references to bigs who developed abnormally (grew too far too fast) and have had health problems. I wonder if this is true of Oden. I assume this may have been true for Bowie. Duncan does not seem to be affected by anything like that based on his career so far.
Not to pick on Oden, who seems like a good kid, but I really do wonder about him. At this time last year, I remember commenting that it looked like he might have some sort of thyroid or pituitary gland problem.
I forgot to mention Kareem. There is no question that Kareem was about 10 years ahead of the curve on conditioning. Also, people forget the "Nation of Islam Factor." Assuming Kareem adhered to NOI tenets consistently, this meant no smoking, no drinking, and eating mostly healthy foods during his NOI years. If you're not out partying into the small hours and eating junk food, that has to help.
I can assure you that Kareem...did not, and still doesn't...adhere to strict NOI tenets...
Kareem, he like the ganj...
Now there's something...
You think of two guys that stayed effective into their 40's...
Kareem, Robert Parish...
Think about what they had in common
Last edited by whottt; 10-24-2007 at 11:14 AM.
I can assure you that Kareem...did not, and still doesn't...adhere to strict NOI tenets...
Kareem, he like the ganj...
Now there's something...
You think of two guys that stayed effective into their 40's...
Kareem, Robert Parish...
Think about what they had in common
Well, I'll file that under "Learn Something New Every Day." It doesn't surprise me, but I sure didn't know that about him.
Kareem's been busted multiple times for possession of marijuana...
During his playing days or afterwards? Just curious.
Late 90's...
He might have had some stuff prior to that...but he def got popped a couple of times in the 90's...and the 00's.
I see where you are going with this...
People generally don't take up smoking herb for the first time in their mid 50's...
Im sure he got busted in the 80s, but he was so godlike, and still is, in LA that it was easily swept under the rug.
The internet not being prevelent in the 80s also aided.
Actually, if you read Giant Steps, Kareem was pretty open about it.
I think the comparison is bang on and I have believed it for some time.
But it's not just athleticism vs. fundamentals. It's body type mostly. Also efficiency of motion, smoothness -- they even play with that same impassive look (although Tim's aloofness is much more benign than Kareem's was).
There are significant differences as well -- Kareem played true center and never rebounded or played D like Tim. He wasn't a leader or a popular locker-room guy like Tim, either. But the similarities that go to longevity are striiking.
That's why I sometimes wonder just how many rings Tim may get if he wants them (and I think he does). And just how long (decades?) that we'll have to listen to the "experts'" desperate, wishful thinking that the Spurs are simply too old, that they're on their last legs and not athletic enough. They've been saying it now, about an ever-changing supporting cast, for about seven years.
I bet he's done more than just some herb...
Being in LA in the mid late sixties...probably a whole lot more than herb.
I bet he's done more than just some herb...
Being in LA in the mid late sixties...probably a whole lot more than herb.
Lame...Kareem was a pretty good leader, he just wasn't an emotional one...but he knew to play the game, and he knew how to make his teamates better...and his credo was alway the team is more important than the invidual...and he backed that up on more than one occasion.
Kareem's a smart smart dude, about basketball, and other things...and if he was an NBA coach, he'd probably be considered one of the best...
And for a guy that couldn't rebound...he sure could rebound.
Ditto D...he's like second or third on the all time blocks list and they didn't even count the stat for the first 5 years of his career...he could also pass.
Pretty much nothing Kareem couldn't do and didn't understand about the game of basketball...he gets it better than most coaches.
He had a lot of help to win all his les...but when he got that help he did just what you are supposed to do with it...and then some.
And as someone else mentioned, he was way ahead of his time on things like conditioning...and a lot of other things as well.
Actually, until Magic arrived, the Lakers had no leader and won nothing with Kareem. Ditto, Milwaukee without Oscar. Or as Kareem, himself, put it before Magic arrived, "I just show up and shoot a few hook shots."
No one in a position to hire NBA coaches has ever concurred.
He could rebound, no doubt, he just chose not to. Given his longeveity and height, his career rebound stats were bound to be good -- just nowhere close to what they could have been. Russell and Chamberlain averaged twice as many rebounds/game as Kareem.
Blocks = D?
When you assume, you make an ass of...
I was just curious why I hadn't heard about it. I would agree that it was more likely he started as a teenager or at UCLA.
EDIT: He was also a student of Bruce Lee, who smoked reefer or hashish (not sure which). Supposedly, an allergic reaction to hashish played a role in Lee's edema. Obviously, there are a lot of conspiracy theories and disinformation surrounding Lee's death, so who knows?
Kareem was a bad, bad dude.
Ask Bruce Lee...
http://refernet.typepad.com/jdragon/...lee_vs_ka.html
Either great minds think alike or coincindences abound...
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