McDonald: Spurs' Udrih, Vaughn unlikely to be healthy for opener

[Mr. Body]

I don't see how Darius Washington fills a need for this team? I don't see how any player fighting for the 15th spot fills a need for this team?

The 15th player is either meant to be an over-the-hill veteran that is mostly good for waiving towels and occasional spot duty when one of the bench guys takes a night off, or it's meant to be a young guy looking to be developed in practice with the big squad or in games with the NBADL team.

If you want to say that Washington deserves a spot because he's a better prospect than Williams and will benefit from development moreso than Williams, that's fine. But to suggest that either is going to contribute or fills a need, is rediculous.

To be honest, I think Mr. Body's is probably more right than wrong when he says none of these guys (to include Marcus Williams) will be legit NBA players. But my point is that an investment was made less than 6 months ago in Williams to see if he could develop into something more and I doubt that experiment is over.

I've been making the argument that Washington fills the position of greatest need, at least far above Williams. Perhaps I overstate, but back-up point guard is a position of vital need. Beno Udrih is a failure and won't be on the team next year, besides. Jacque Vaughn, while he has good feelings toward him, is not exceptionally talented and more of a stop-gap to begin with, and may have no more than one more year of ball left in him after this one.

Therefore, other than an older Vaughn, we only have one point guard on the roster next year, and it's Parker. Meanwhile, good back-ups can be hard to come by.

So, unless we think Williams is the 'long three' we need as a Bowen replacement (which he's not all that big to begin with), Washington fills a need much better and potentially much faster. And in a very cheap way.

[AFBlue]

So, unless we think Williams is the 'long three' we need as a Bowen replacement (which he's not all that big to begin with), Washington fills a need much better and potentially much faster. And in a very cheap way.

That is, if he is signed to a multi-year deal. Because, as you pointed out there are already three PGs on the roster for this year and there are at least two on the roster for next year.

Is Washington SO good that he'll get picked up on a multi-year deal before the Spurs are able to sign him in Summer '08 when there is a legitimate need?

While I agree that the PG position is certainly one of the weaker positions, I just don't buy that Washington could contribute this year if he's signed or that the Spurs would carry 4 point guards on their roster to marginalize that weakness.

[picnroll]

Pop has said Washington has the talent to be an NBA player. Haven't heard any quotes from him about Williams along those lines. We know Beno isn't an NBA level player already.

[Mr. Body]

That is, if he is signed to a multi-year deal. Because, as you pointed out there are already three PGs on the roster for this year and there are at least two on the roster for next year.

Is Washington SO good that he'll get picked up on a multi-year deal before the Spurs are able to sign him in Summer '08 when there is a legitimate need?

While I agree that the PG position is certainly one of the weaker positions, I just don't buy that Washington could contribute this year if he's signed or that the Spurs would carry 4 point guards on their roster to marginalize that weakness.

Well, I think there's only 2 points on the current roster, considering Beno a non-en y. And a broken-down Vaughn as our only point guard next year behind Parker isn't too promising to me, so I'd prefer to take a chance on Washington, who has the skills and gumption to become a solid 2nd PG in this league.

[Mr. Body]

Pop has said Washington has the talent to be an NBA player. Haven't heard any quotes from him about Williams along those lines. We know Beno isn't an NBA level player already.

Sharp, succinct, and correct.

[2centsworth]

RC takes risks on draft night. He goes for developmental no-name players. Sometimes he comes through and sometimes he strikes out.

Right now Mahinmi looks like a questionable pick, but this kid has the potential to be a beast. If he turns into a beast in two years will you be questioning RC then?

And what about Splitter? How was that a bad pick?

To be honest, that's not even the point...

The real point is that RC is allowed to take those risks on draft night because he has built a championship-contending team year in and year out by piecing veteran role players with his core and not by relying on draft night selections/rookies to fill critical roles. Guys like Bowen and Horry will be gone in a couple years and the ones that come in behind them (Udoka, Bonner?) won't be green rookies or flashy superstars...they'll be quality role players.

Bottom Line: If RC thinks Mahinmi could be the next Robinson and Williams the next Elliott, why not take a chance on them and see if they pan out? In the meantime, the Spurs will continue to build their championship-calibur teams without having to count on that coming true.

I think Pop the GM pieced the team together. Plus, every time there's a big name free agent I always hear Pop is more involved in recruiting than RC. RC's biggest responsibility IMO is to find some steals in the draft. Of course he will strike out here and there, but this guy is 0-10 since being the GM. We don't know about Splitter yet.

[AFBlue]

Well, I think there's only 2 points on the current roster, considering Beno a non-en y. And a broken-down Vaughn as our only point guard next year behind Parker isn't too promising to me, so I'd prefer to take a chance on Washington, who has the skills and gumption to become a solid 2nd PG in this league.

You can disregard Beno and assume Vaughn will breakdown (though I just think he'll continue to bring his steady, barely average game to the table), but I don't think the Spurs will.

Maybe I'll eat crow, but IMO they will not carry 4 point guards on the roster this season. I wouldn't be suprised to see Darius on the roster next season, but I just don't see him on this year's roster unless Beno is waived/traded or one of the existing PGs suffers a long-term injury.

[Mr. Body]

You're probably right. I'm just making a case that we're going to have to hunt for a back-up PG very, very soon. As soon as next summer. So why not start now, when there's not even any hunting involved?

[AFBlue]

I think Pop the GM pieced the team together. Plus, every time there's a big name free agent I always hear Pop is more involved in recruiting than RC. RC's biggest responsibility IMO is to find some steals in the draft. Of course he will strike out here and there, but this guy is 0-10 since being the GM. We don't know about Splitter yet.

Tony Parker...Manu Ginobili...

Yeah those are some real "zeros"

And it's obvious that Pop plays a role in recruiting FAs, but it's the GMs job to get those players at a reasonable price and make sure they'll fit the system.

Has RC made some gaffes? Yeah I think so. But he's incredibly underappreciated on this forum by a bunch of dillusional know-it-all fans who think they could do a better job.

[AFBlue]

You're probably right. I'm just making a case that we're going to have to hunt for a back-up PG very, very soon. As soon as next summer. So why not start now, when there's not even any hunting involved?

I certainly see your point, but what's wrong with a little hunting? You don't think the Spurs could be compe ive in the draft/FA market next year?

I for one, wonder if Spanoulis would be interested in coming back across the pond if he was given opportunity to earn minutes at both guard positions. Yes, this could be dillusional...

I also think the Spurs should be able to snag another cheap veteran PG in FA.

And then of course there is the draft/training camp invitee that would have a shot at the third PG spot and be given the chance to overtake Vaughn as Parker's primary backup.

Bottom Line: Lots of options....none of which involve carrying 4 PGs on the roster this year. Though I have to say....I share your concern that it could be ugly in 08-09.

[timvp]

I actually do agree with the take that Washington increases the Spurs' likelihood of winning a championship this season more than keeping Williams and Beno would. If something happens to Parker or Vaughn, I could see Washington getting minutes in the regular season or the playoffs. Pop's nature is to always play a point guard instead of moving over a shooting guard even if the point guard is a scrub (Jason Hart in 2004 being a prime example).

I don't see a scenario in which Williams would ever play a major role this season. If the Spurs got decimated by injuries, Williams isn't good enough to fill a role in the regular season ... much less the playoffs. I guess there's a chance that he could possibly progress to the point to where he could help, but that isn't this season and probably not next season. In fact, if the Spurs got in a desperate situation, I'd expect them to go after a Keith Langford type player who could come in and be halfway decent. Williams has shown to be unreliable in summer league and preseason, it'd be suicide to rely on him in a game that means anything.

As far as Beno goes, he's pretty much worthless in the playoffs. If a team throws a full court press on him, he becomes the worst point guard in the NBA. The only time you can play him in the playoffs is if the Spurs are facing a horribly inept defensive team or if the Spurs move him to shooting guard.

Bottomline is Washington would increase the odds of the Spurs winning the championship this season. That increase might be like 0.001% increase but he's at least playable if an emergency situation arises. Beno isn't trustworthy in the playoffs and Williams won't be trustworthy on a basketball court for at least two years ... if ever.

[SenorSpur]

As I've said before, I simply wish R.C. and Pop would do a bit more homework on domestic talent.

[AFBlue]

I actually do agree with the take that Washington increases the Spurs' likelihood of winning a championship this season more than keeping Williams and Beno would. If something happens to Parker or Vaughn, I could see Washington getting minutes in the regular season or the playoffs. Pop's nature is to always play a point guard instead of moving over a shooting guard even if the point guard is a scrub (Jason Hart in 2004 being a prime example).

I don't see a scenario in which Williams would ever play a major role this season. If the Spurs got decimated by injuries, Williams isn't good enough to fill a role in the regular season ... much less the playoffs. I guess there's a chance that he could possibly progress to the point to where he could help, but that isn't this season and probably not next season. In fact, if the Spurs got in a desperate situation, I'd expect them to go after a Keith Langford type player who could come in and be halfway decent. Williams has shown to be unreliable in summer league and preseason, it'd be suicide to rely on him in a game that means anything.

As far as Beno goes, he's pretty much worthless in the playoffs. If a team throws a full court press on him, he becomes the worst point guard in the NBA. The only time you can play him in the playoffs is if the Spurs are facing a horribly inept defensive team or if the Spurs move him to shooting guard.

Bottomline is Washington would increase the odds of the Spurs winning the championship this season. That increase might be like 0.001% increase but he's at least playable if an emergency situation arises. Beno isn't trustworthy in the playoffs and Williams won't be trustworthy on a basketball court for at least two years ... if ever.

I don't disagree that Washington is potentially better than Beno and I understand that he could be more helpful if the squad was decimated by injury this year than Williams could be.

With that said, do you think they will carry 4 PGs on the roster? Do you think that they will consider the current injuries serious enough to keep this kid around for insurance?

I don't think so, but I guess time will tell.

[Mr. Body]

Why wouldn't they carry 4 PGs on the roster? If the 15th guy on the roster doesn't matter, what does it matter what position he plays?

[AFBlue]

Why wouldn't they carry 4 PGs on the roster? If the 15th guy on the roster doesn't matter, what does it matter what position he plays?

Good point.

Just using conventional wisdom and trying to figure out the last time the Spurs went with a four-PG roster.

Who knows...maybe they cut both and leave the 15th roster spot open in case someone gets injured and they have to get depth at whatever position is weakened by the injury.

[Mr. Body]

Here's another thing. Wasn't one of the lines about Marcus Williams as summer league started about how well he could handle the ball? The line disappeared when he couldn't do much of anything, but it seems they were projecting a need for a ball-handler.

[timvp]

With that said, do you think they will carry 4 PGs on the roster?

It depends on whether the Spurs see Beno as an injured point guard who will come back or a waste of a contract. If he's a waste of a contract, Washington would be the third point guard.

Do you think that they will consider the current injuries serious enough to keep this kid around for insurance?

The Spurs went into the 2003-04 season with five point guards -- Tony Parker, Anthony Carter, Alex Garcia, Jason Hart and Shane Heal. Four point guards ain't nothin' compared to that.

If Vaughn is actually going to miss regular season time, I'd look at the 2003-04 season as proof that the Spurs would rather have too many point guards than too few point guards. The Spurs were dealing with injuries to the point guard corps when they had five on the roster, however none of the players had a major injury. Even going into the playoffs that year, the Spurs had four point guards on the roster (Parker, Hart, Garcia and Charlie Ward).

We'll see what the Spurs do but with Vaughn and Beno being injured, Washington's chances improved. And it's not unprecedented for the Spurs to carry more than three point guards so I don't think that's an obstacle at this point.

[BeerIsGood!]

It all comes down to what they think Washington can do for them now vs. what they think Williams can do for them later. They go with the bigger perceived need.

[BeerIsGood!]

We'll find out soon enough exactly what they are thinking.

[Spurs Brazil]

Mike Bud was talking with Shoening on the pregame show and he said the coaches aren't worried about Vaughn and Beno out because DW is doing a great job.

He said great things about him

[timvp]

More good news for Washington:

Just now on the radio, Coach Bud talked very glowingly of him. He was asked about the injuries at the point guard position, he basically said that with Washington and their other point guards they feel better about their overall point guard position than they have in a while. He also said that Washington has made the Spurs stop and really think about what he's been able to do in the preseason.

That was the first time that I've heard a coach insinuate that Washington could have a future with the Spurs.

[timvp]

Mike Bud was talking with Shoening on the pregame show and he said the coaches aren't worried about Vaughn and Beno out because DW is doing a great job.

He said great things about him

You beat me to it. But yeah, Bud seemed very high on Washington. To say they aren't worried about Vaughn and Udrih being injured because the Spurs have Washington is further good news for Washington fans.

[coopdogg3]

I really wish they would cut Beno (who is an obvious loser on this squad) rather than Marcus Williams (who MIGHT be productive at some point), but I guess that's asking a lot as Marcus would be a much cheaper cut.

[ChumpDumper]

If Vaughn's injury is that bad, it will be easy to see a White-like waiving of Williams with regrets in the next few days.

[Darkwaters]

More good news for Washington:

Just now on the radio, Coach Bud talked very glowingly of him. He was asked about the injuries at the point guard position, he basically said that with Washington and their other point guards they feel better about their overall point guard position than they have in a while. He also said that Washington has made the Spurs stop and really think about what he's been able to do in the preseason.

That was the first time that I've heard a coach insinuate that Washington could have a future with the Spurs.