Oh My! Is Billary Another Kerry

[Yonivore]

I stopped at 'motives'. That's where you and I part ways. You seem to assign motivation whenever it suits your purpose and I don't. So in order for me to believe what you suppose about Kerry is that he signed up knowing that he would slander other soldiers, get injured three times (but none seriously), to then come home to position himslef to be president is preposterous. All of this MAY be true ( I won't consider right wing blogs as objective opinions) but to think Kerry had all of that in mind when he signed up is beyond ridiculous. His serving was honorable whether you agree with his politics or not.

Hey, you asked.

Seriously though, when do you think Kerry is going to sign that form SF-180?

Next thing your going to tell me is that max Clelland shouldn't be honored the way he is because he apparently caused his own mutilation and injuries by his own hand.

Nope.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hey, you asked.

Seriously though, when do you think Kerry is going to sign that form SF-180?


Nope.

does it really matter now whether he releases it or not? the people who want to see it only want to tear him apart and humiliate him. sort of like the folks now on the right who want to get a hold of communications between hillary and bill during their 8 yrs in the WH. the right wants to see communications between man and wife .... yet they also defend the right of to hold secret energy meetings.. come on man there is so much hypocrisy on your side even you have to acknowledge it. I am going on a limb and assume you want these communications between bill and hillary to be released for all to see.

[Yonivore]

In retrospect one must in reality question why Kerry filmed his supposed escapades in Vietnam, a tactic that obviously smacks of exploitation and calculation.

In fact, If John Kerry really wanted to do something important why didn't he do ent with his camera all the atrocities he said that he witnessed and were committed by the hoards of Ghengis Khan he so blatantly accused U. S. soldiers of being in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee 1971?

The murdering, rapists .... Your fathers, sons, friends, and relatives, our young fighting men who fought with so much bravery because they loved America! Where was his bravery then? He was so against the war what better chance to prove his accusations but on film? No, his real reasons for carrying that camera have become very obvious to most veterans and to many Americans. John Kerry is into only one thing and that's John Kerrys political aspirations.

He volunteered for Vietnam and requested to captain a Swiftboat because it was, he believed, safe. Two of his three wounds -- coming in approximately 4 months time are alleged, by men of more honor than Kerry, to have been self-inflicted.

Back in September 2002, Kerry told New York Times columnist Bill Keller "I have no intention of using" his Vietnam home movies, which Kerry shot with an 8-mm camera, for campaign purposes. But contrary to that promise, those films were used in Kerry’s TV ads and were heavily featured during the Democratic convention.

Again, where is his SF-180?

[Yonivore]

does it really matter now whether he releases it or not? the people who want to see it only want to tear him apart and humiliate him.

Maybe he deserves to be torn apart and humiliated. I'm sure the veterans about whom he lied to Congress would consider that sweet justice.

sort of like the folks now on the right who want to get a hold of communications between hillary and bill during their 8 yrs in the WH. the right wants to see communications between man and wife .... yet they also defend the right of to hold secret energy meetings.. come on man there is so much hypocrisy on your side even you have to acknowledge it. I am going on a limb and assume you want these communications between bill and hillary to be released for all to see.

You assume wrong. I don't care what they said to one another. In fact, I hadn't even heard this was being suggested. Is there some criminal allegation?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Maybe he deserves to be torn apart and humiliated. I'm sure the veterans about whom he lied to Congress would consider that sweet justice.


You assume wrong. I don't care what they said to one another. In fact, I hadn't even heard this was being suggested. Is there some criminal allegation?

I know I shouldn't but I will..

specifically what veterans are you talking about?

[Yonivore]

I know I shouldn't but I will..

specifically what veterans are you talking about?

For starters, the veterans he lied about in his testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971.

[Yonivore]

The fact he brought an 8mm camera to Vietnam and only produced scenes that would look good in a political ad instead of filming the "atrocities" he would come back to lie about in Congress should tell you something about his honor I would think.

[Yonivore]

Throwing someone else's medals over the White House fence in protest instead of his own should tell you something about his honor.

[Yonivore]

Lying about his super-de-duper secret trip up the river into Cambodia should tell you something about his honor.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hey I'm not defending him all I am saying is that his signing up should be viewed as being honorable. Whatever happened after his signing up he owns and I won't pretend to agree with everything he did.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The fact he brought an 8mm camera to Vietnam and only produced scenes that would look good in a political ad instead of filming the "atrocities" he would come back to lie about in Congress should tell you something about his honor I would think.

Well what would you show? Yoni please get of of this notion that no attrocities happended in Vietnam. Right or wrong they happened, so please don't tell me that you believe there were no attrocities committed.

[Yonivore]

Hey I'm not defending him all I am saying is that his signing up should be viewed as being honorable. Whatever happened after his signing up he owns and I won't pretend to agree with everything he did.

If he signed up believing he would be put in a position that would afford him maximum safety [which he, himself, admitted he did] and allow him to exploit his service for political ends [which many around him, at the time, believe], that's not honorable...that's opportunistic.

[Yonivore]

Well what would you show? Yoni please get of of this notion that no attrocities happended in Vietnam. Right or wrong they happened, so please don't tell me that you believe there were no attrocities committed.

I didn't say that, Captain Absolutist. I said Kerry lied about U. S. Troops before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971 and that his lies make him a dishonorable person.

If atrocities were "committed on a day to day basis" in Vietnam, the news media would have reported them then. There were news journalists and photographers all over Vietnam. Remember the Vietnam war was the 1st war to be televised? The first war that we watched from our living rooms?

Did American Soldiers commit atrocities? Yes, but in the 10 years from 1962 until 1972 there were fewer atrocities committed by American servicemen than in the four years of WWII. And, reported atrocities were do ented, investigated, and punished where found to be true.

Did the Vietnam veterans rape Vietnamese women? I never heard of it happening during the war. Though I'm sure there were some rapes, as sure as I am that there were rapes committed in the USA between 1962 and 1972.

Did the Vietnam veteran kill women? Yes, unfortunatly they had to at times.

Did the Vietnam veterans kill kids? Yes, unfortunatly they had to at times.

Did the Vietnam veteran commit atrocities "on a day to day basis with the full awareness of Officers at all levels of command," as Kerry testified? As I said above, Vietnam was the first war that was brought to the Americans' living rooms. There were Journalists and Photographers all over Vietnam if this statement were the truth, the media would have been at every atrocity foaming at the mouth with pen in hand.

Did the Vietnam veterans randomly shoot at civilians, kill livestock, and raze villages in the "fashion" of Genghis Khan? Except for Mai Lai, there is very little to substantiate such a claim.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If he signed up believing he would be put in a position that would afford him maximum safety [which he, himself, admitted he did] and allow him to exploit his service for political ends [which many around him, at the time, believe], that's not honorable...that's opportunistic.

Ok so if I follow your view he signed up for gun boat duty because it was safe? or was it safer than in the jungle? please don't tell me that he did not put himself in harms way. I am now beginning to think you only see republicans service as the only noble type.. bush signed up to stay away from vietnam while kerry signed up with maximum safety in mind.. do you see where your headed?

[clambake]

so is deferment

[George Gervin's Afro]

I didn't say that, Captain Absolutist. I said Kerry lied about U. S. Troops before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971 and that his lies make him a dishonorable person.

So it wasn't possible that some veterans mentioned to him that bad things happened? if they did, would that make hiumn a liar? And since he was going in front of congress maybethey wanted him to know? is that a possibility?

[Yonivore]

Ok so if I follow your view he signed up for gun boat duty because it was safe? or was it safer than in the jungle? please don't tell me that he did not put himself in harms way. I am now beginning to think you only see republicans service as the only noble type.. bush signed up to stay away from vietnam while kerry signed up with maximum safety in mind.. do you see where your headed?

Actually, President Bush volunteered for combat duty and was rejected.

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war. When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

John Kerry in 1986

[Yonivore]

So it wasn't possible that some veterans mentioned to him that bad things happened? if they did, would that make hiumn a liar? And since he was going in front of congress maybethey wanted him to know? is that a possibility?

We can check his testimony but, I believe he actually claimed to have witnessed and, in some respects, participated in the atrocities.

And, we also know much of his testimony was shaped by lies fabricated by fake soldiers in the Winter Soldier nonsense.

C'mon, the guy's a disgrace.

[xrayzebra]

Well I have given this enough time. Everyone wants to get off
into Kerry's lost, which that is what is was Presidential bid. But everyone
avoids they whole thing of the post. Hillary cant answer a
hard question. Why? She doesn't have a clue about anything,
except politics. Bill run an eight year administration on
running for office. He nor his co-president accomplished
absolutely nothing. Well he did make out with an intern and
the nose, Babara S. who Billiary kicked out of the WH.
Whe didn't answer any hard question last night. And her
questioner is accused of "busting" the rules.

Oh, and who was it that was so critical of the WH homeland
security folks and their little practice news interview.......

[Yonivore]

No !?! Barbra Streisand?

I hadn't heard that one...or, if I had, I'd forgotten.



Oh, and to your other point, Hillary can't manage to keep track of her billing records or remember hiring people with high level access to White House files...so, how's she going to run the entire executive branch.

I've been looking all day for a quote I saw the other day, from a former Clinton administration official involved in the HillaryCare fiasco who, and paraphrasing here, said in the mid 90's, "God help us all if she ever gets close to another government program."

[Wild Cobra]

it still grosses me out the way bush campaign totally slandered kerry, a war hero

Kerry was a war pussie.

[Wild Cobra]

By the way, today marks 1,009 days since John Kerry promised, on national TV, to sign form SF-180 and release his military records.

Yep, I wonder whats in theose 100+ pages of du ents he's afraid to release?

Could it be a dishonorable discharge...

[Wild Cobra]

slandering his service. insinuating his service was anything but honorable. wouldn't you agree that ANYONE who chose to volunteer to go to war is acting honorably?

What did I miss... Are you saying Kerry was a volunteer?

Hardly. His deferments ran out.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Actually, President Bush volunteered for combat duty and was rejected.

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war. When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

John Kerry in 1986

I suppose you don't have a bush quote to back up your claim and a supposed kerry quote. where did you find the kerry quote? the national enquirer

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well I have given this enough time. Everyone wants to get off
into Kerry's lost, which that is what is was Presidential bid. But everyone
avoids they whole thing of the post. Hillary cant answer a
hard question. Why? She doesn't have a clue about anything,
except politics. Bill run an eight year administration on
running for office. He nor his co-president accomplished
absolutely nothing. Well he did make out with an intern and
the nose, Babara S. who Billiary kicked out of the WH.
Whe didn't answer any hard question last night. And her
questioner is accused of "busting" the rules.

Oh, and who was it that was so critical of the WH homeland
security folks and their little practice news interview.......

ok ray if i can find a republican candidate(s) that did not answer specific yes or no questions would we then assume, according to you, that they won't answer hard questions?