Bonds Indicted

[Kriz-Maxima]

Bonds its nothing more than a scapegoat. The league knew, the players knew and the ballclubs knew what was happening, but as long as the ball was going far off the field no one gave a . Now everybody washes their hands. As i said, scapegoat.

[peewee's lovechild]

I was about to say the same thing. Sorry, peewee. I can't take your opinion of anything baseball-related very seriously when you thumb your nose down at it the way you do.

And nobody applauded Sosa's comeback. Most thought it was stupid and unnecessary, not the least of which is most Rangers fans.

You're going by what Midge is saying here.
He just hates that I'm a Yankee fan and he takes everything I say out of context.

It doesn't change my arguement.

[peewee's lovechild]

Bonds its nothing more than a scapegoat. The league knew, the players knew and the ballclubs knew what was happening, but as long as the ball was going far off the field no one gave a . Now everybody washes their hands. As i said, scapegoat.

That's what I've been saying.

But, all anybody counters with is "you're a Yankee fan", "you don't like baseball", "look at his personal life", "what about the kids", etc.

Bull .
All of it.

[Melmart1]

You're going by what Midge is saying here.
He just hates that I'm a Yankee fan and he takes everything I say out of context.

It doesn't change my arguement.

Well, let's take a look at your argument.

You argue Bonds is a scapegoat. On that, you are correct. Is it fair? no.

You also say its bull and on that, you are NOT correct.

Yes, he isn't the only one who ever did anything illegal. However, what are we supposed to do -- nothing? Give everyone a pass until a certain time and THEN go after people? Or are we supposed to turn a blind eye because everyone who ever did it can't be indicted? So, if everyone who has ever commited murder or rape can't be indicted, does that mean we stop prosecuting altogther?

In something so widespread as this, examples must be made. It's the only way to implement change, and to make people think twice before they start using. Well, that and have a commissioner who isn't such a -up might implement change, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

I would also like to point out that not everyone lied under oath regarding their steroid use like Bonds apparently did. Those who have should all be prosecuted, I don't care if they are saints, never cheated on their wives or are related to Jesus Christ.

[peewee's lovechild]

Well, let's take a look at your argument.

You argue Bonds is a scapegoat. On that, you are correct. Is it fair? no.

You also say its bull and on that, you are NOT correct.

Yes, he isn't the only one who ever did anything illegal. However, what are we supposed to do -- nothing? Give everyone a pass until a certain time and THEN go after people? Or are we supposed to turn a blind eye because everyone who ever did it can't be indicted? So, if everyone who has ever commited murder or rape can't be indicted, does that mean we stop prosecuting altogther?

In something so widespread as this, examples must be made. It's the only way to implement change, and to make people think twice before they start using. Well, that and have a commissioner who isn't such a -up might implement change, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

I would also like to point out that not everyone lied under oath regarding their steroid use like Bonds apparently did. Those who have should all be prosecuted, I don't care if they are saints, never cheated on their wives or are related to Jesus Christ.

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. , there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

[midgetonadonkey]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. , there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

It's fun to watch.

[Melmart1]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?
I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. , there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its ed up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

[mikejones99]

Barry should just kill some es and reporters

[peewee's lovechild]

I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its ed up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

It won't help because people are still doing it. How many people were caught this year?? I believe it was three, though I may be mistaken.

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

There will be new ways to cheat. Baseball has a tradition of cheating. This will not go away. And, if you think that going after Bonds will magically cure baseball of cheating or steroids (HGH, etc.), then you're not as smart as I thought you were.

This will do nothing.

[Melmart1]

It won't help because people are still doing it. How many people were caught this year?? I believe it was three, though I may be mistaken.

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

There will be new ways to cheat. Baseball has a tradition of cheating. This will not go away. And, if you think that going after Bonds will magically cure baseball of cheating or steroids (HGH, etc.), then you're not as smart as I thought you were.

This will do nothing.

Oh. My. God. Where the did I say that? I said it is one thing that can be done to deter people. I never said it was some magical cure. Stop being an ass and trying to assume things that I never said.

[Spawn]

I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its ed up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

The only thing players will get from this is if they take steroids and the feds find them important enough to call them and testify, they shouldn't lie about it.

[Kermit]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

Because he lied to a Grand Jury.

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

This isn't about taking steriods. This case deals with the fact that he lied about taking them.

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

There's no proof that Raffy took steriods before his Senate testimony. There's a lot of proof that Barry did. It's the backbone of the Federal Indictment. Barry's ed.

I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. , there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

This case has nothing to do with MLB. Barry's records and the records of those entangled in the controversy are still intact and will remain that way. If we have a steriod era, we should have an era from baseballs beginning till Jackie called the "Blackless Era" or a "Greenie Era" to cover the speed most players were doing in the 60's on up to the 2000's.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

This person was associated with Balco. This has nothing to do with MLB or the home-run record. Most of the other athletes associated with Balco have either been punished or have copped to their misdeeds and lost everything. If Barry would've told the truth, this would be over. He chose to lie. In our criminal justice system, you simply can't lie when under oath, and if someone chooses violate that tennent they have to be punished.

[IceColdBrewski]

Because he lied to a Grand Jury.



This isn't about taking steriods. This case deals with the fact that he lied about taking them.



There's no proof that Raffy took steriods before his Senate testimony. There's a lot of proof that Barry did. It's the backbone of the Federal Indictment. Barry's ed.



This case has nothing to do with MLB. Barry's records and the records of those entangled in the controversy are still intact and will remain that way. If we have a steriod era, we should have an era from baseballs beginning till Jackie called the "Blackless Era" or a "Greenie Era" to cover the speed most players were doing in the 60's on up to the 2000's.



This person was associated with Balco. This has nothing to do with MLB or the home-run record. Most of the other athletes associated with Balco have either been punished or have copped to their misdeeds and lost everything. If Barry would've told the truth, this would be over. He chose to lie. In our criminal justice system, you simply can't lie when under oath, and if someone chooses violate that tennent they have to be punished.

Kermit nailed it. And as I read this thread, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally bring it up. Bonds is in hot water for perjury and obstruction of justice. He lied (allegedly) to a Grand Jury. That's a big no-no in our judicial system.

A bit off topic, but what's the over/under on how long it takes for Bonds and/or his lawyers to pull the race card? You just know it's coming sooner or later.

[Kermit]

Kermit nailed it. And as I read this thread, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally bring it up. Bonds is in hot water for perjury and obstruction of justice. He lied (allegedly) to a Grand Jury. That's a big no-no in our judicial system.

A bit off topic, but what's the over/under on how long it takes for Bonds and/or his lawyers to pull the race card? You just know it's coming sooner or later.

Hasn't he already played it?

[IceColdBrewski]

Hasn't he already played it?

Don't know. I haven't been keeping up with it that much. He's an ass, so I try to avoid listening to him most of the time. Wouldn't suprise me though.

[Fabbs]

Big dog n pony show.
Everyone knows Bonds and others juiced and lie, current MLB players still do even if the exact juice has changed.

6 billion in profits just announced by Slug Selig.
Plenty of bribe and hush money for everyone, including if not foremost the Feds.

Move along, nothing to see here people.
6 months-1 year from now some phony announcement how not enough **evidence** to convict Bonds. He and Al Sharpton whine, blah blah blah the MLB profits continue.

[O-Factor]

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

but put a smile on my face

[Kermit]

Big dog n pony show.
Everyone knows Bonds and others juiced and lie, current MLB players still do even if the exact juice has changed.

6 billion in profits just announced by Slug Selig.
Plenty of bribe and hush money for everyone, including if not foremost the Feds.

Move along, nothing to see here people.
6 months-1 year from now some phony announcement how not enough **evidence** to convict Bonds. He and Al Sharpton whine, blah blah blah the MLB profits continue.

Again, this has nothing to do with MLB, profits or anything related to steriod abuse. This is Barry v. The Government because Barry lied to a Grand Jury. If there wasn't enough evidence to convict Bonds, the Feds would've ended the investigation. They've been waiting for Greg Anderson who's testimony would've helped all of us avoid a trial and would've led to a Barry plea deal. Instead, we will now be subjected to endless Barry talk and a trial which will probably end with one count of perjury. They have the evidence and this thing will reach a jury.

[Fabbs]

Again, this has nothing to do with MLB, profits or anything related to steriod abuse. This is Barry v. The Government because Barry lied to a Grand Jury. If there wasn't enough evidence to convict Bonds, the Feds would've ended the investigation.

Yeah, Big Business and The Goverment/politicians never get in bed together.
C'mon Kermit, go around the block of Seasame Street.

[Kermit]

Yeah, Big Business and The Goverment/politicians never get in bed together.
C'mon Kermit, go around the block of Seasame Street.

I remember a couple of years ago they were the most despised sporting en y on Capital Hill. Now they're funding the governments vendeda against Barry? That's the angle you're taking? They're paying the Feds to screw Barry. Of all the re ed things insinuated...

A lot of that $6 billion came on Barry's back. If MLB really wanted to screw him, don't you think they would've suspended him before he broke the record? MLB could give a because they realize the hypocrisy in all the Barry bashing. I'm sure if they had one wish, it's that this would end today and Barry would go away forever instead of dominating the headlines and reminding everyone of their inability to police their sport.

Believe me, if Snufulu us lied to a grand jury, they'd be after his cabbage eating ass to.

[Fabbs]

No Kermit the whole *investigation* is a big act.
Act by MLB and act by politicos.

This way MLB can defer to the Feds, say to public "see, an *investigation* was done and we will abide by that *investigations* results." Oh they found him not guilty? Well great, lets keep moving those profits along.

All parties involved know it's a dog show.

[Kermit]

Again. MLB has nothing to do with the investigation. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Had Bonds told the truth, this would be over. Done. Finished. Kaput.

There is no "abiding by the investigation" because said investigation has nothing to do with anything MLB related. The outcome cannot effect Bonds's prior career in any way. Now, I'll agree that it's a dog and pony show, but MLB has nothing to do with it. Every Federal trial concerning a celebrity or public figure has a habit of taking on this description. See, Scooter Libby and Michael Vick.

What MLB can do is release the Mitc Report but it has no signifigance when it comes to Bonds. They can't touch him.

[K-State Spur]

The reason Palmeiro wasn't prosecuted is because there is no way that the Feds could prove that he lied. They only have proof of steroid use AFTER the testimony, not before.

If they have stronger evidence that Bonds did lie, they are going to come after him - especially in a public case.

This is not significantly different than the situation faced by Martha Stewart (even though she was ultimately charged with a different crime). If she had just been truthful from the get-go, it would have hurt her public image, but she wouldn't have been prosecuted.

[peewee's lovechild]

The reason Palmeiro wasn't prosecuted is because there is no way that the Feds could prove that he lied. They only have proof of steroid use AFTER the testimony, not before.

If I'm not mistaken, the sample they tested was a sample submitted before his testimony.

[Kermit]

If I'm not mistaken, the sample they tested was a sample submitted before his testimony.

No one knows, or at least I can't find anything that gives a timeline of the positive test. I know that Congress refused to press the issue. News of his failed test came 5 months after his testimony and they didn't start more stringent testing till March of that year (2005).