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i didn't say anything about the decriminilization or anything else...
i just made a statement in an attempt to say that you CAN"T compare deaths from alcohol to drugs because sooo many more people use alcohol than drugs.
apples and oranges.
That doesn't mean that if street drugs were decriminalized that more people, especially people who didn't already do them, would start using them. The US will never eliminate drug use because you can trace the history of drug use back through the entire course of human existence. It is something that humans have done forever and will never stop doing. The US has spent years trying to eliminate a problem it will never be able to eliminate: demand for drugs.
The bright spot in the US' war against drugs is the propaganda they have generated, especially shock and awe scare tactics (mostly by using graphic advertisements and skewed healthy information). In my personal experiences, I did not begin doing drugs until I was in college (canning the theory presented in the article that people who stay clean until 18 will likely never use drugs). The main reason was because I believed what I heard were graphic advertisements and that I am a law abiding person, so I feared doing something "illegal". Once I realized what was really being challenged was my personal freedom, I got into drugs slowly and eventually into the binge story I mentioned above. I admit that if I had paced myself somewhat better than I did, then they wouldn't have had as much as a negative impact on my life.
But decriminalization of street drugs is not going to lead to every American driving their cars, going to work, and conducting daily activities while high. Doing so would have no impact on public intoxication laws and drug use would remain a recreational thing. The thing that baffles me the most is the sort of religious crusade launched against pot, when it is proven to be one of the safest substances.... many times safer than alcohol, which again is legal and socially accepted.
If we quit throwing kids and young people in jail for having personal use quan ies of drugs in their possession, that still would do nothing for the years of anti-drug sentiments the government has pumped into the American public. It would not take away the social stigmas, the dirty looks you get when you're sniffing and snorting while in line to buy a bag of chips, etc. Decriminalization won't lead to an overnight "lighswitch" effect in drug use among the public.
The reason people smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol is because they have been legal for our whole lives. Someone we know drinks or smoke, we are exposed to it daily, in TV, movies, music, and in our lives. I refuse there would be a e in drug related deaths if they were decriminalized. Weed won't kill you, and harder drugs have the defense mechanism of death programmed into them. If you do too much cocaine, you'll die. It takes someone truly stupid to overdose on drugs. A stat I'd be interested in knowing is how many deaths out of drug related deaths are (1) killings and (2) suicides. A hard number of how many deaths because of the drug itself would be substantially lower, I think.
i didn't say anything about the decriminilization or anything else...
i just made a statement in an attempt to say that you CAN"T compare deaths from alcohol to drugs because sooo many more people use alcohol than drugs.
apples and oranges.
Put the point we're making here is that decriminalization of drugs won't raise their use level to that of alcohol and tobacco. Nothing the government does will cause every man, woman and child to change their mind about drug use. It would take several decades of undoing what's already been done to have that kind of effect on the public.
You also be surprised that, within the party subculture, how many people who drink and also at least smoke pot too. When I was using, I can't count how many people who I was at their party and asked if it was cool if I went in the bathroom to do a line and they said it was fine for me to do it on the table in front of everyone. Alcohol and tobacco use is definitely more widespread, but that doesn't mean there isn't a significant amount of users who are using and not dying. Like I said, it takes a truly stupid person to end up a statistic on a drug death toll chart.
The point I'm trying to make is decriminalization or a softer approach to drug use prosecution isn't going to change those numbers at all.
suprise, suprise, suprise... you were a druggie, so you probably hung out with them too. no wonder nobody cared if drugs were done in plain sight.
Thanks for distorting the truth there. Obviously if I knew I was hanging out in an environment where drugs were acceptable, I wouldn't have had to ask the guy if it was okay for me to go in the bathroom to do coke. It's just a courtesy. I asked to do it in the bathroom in case he didn't want drug use seen at his house and I could get on the stuff without causing a problem.
Another time I was at Kori's house with a bag of pot in my car that I was going to smoke after I left her GTG. I got drunk and some other people at the GTG wanted to smoke, I won't say who. At first I objected because I didn't want to make a scene, but they told me no one would care... turns out (I might get this wrong since it's been a while...) that Kori didn't like that we went ahead and started lighting up without asking her first.
There are probably drug users at any given party but you have know way of knowing who until they're high. But I would say that most of the people I hang out with are alcoholics and smokers, as far as I know, of the 10 people I hang out with the most only me and one other guy were doing coke, and several people told us to our faces that they didn't like that we were using that .
"Druggies", huh? Well, depending on whose stats you believe, 40-55% of the adult population of the US has tried marijuana, and 35% have used it in the last year, so that means the guy standing next to you is probably a "druggie"... as is the guy you drink with at the bar, because guess what, alcohol is a DRUG, and a powerful one at that.
Damn..... JT, if I went to your GTG in San M, & you all lit up, I would still say no & drink me some Gin
tis legal, after all, do not want to get pop'd if u no what I mean
Damn, war on drugs
God made Marijuana...
God didn't make sugar though...at least not in the form we use it...Man did.
God didn't make cocaine...at least not in the form we use it...Man did.
God didn't make alcohol...at least not in the form we use it...Man did.
God didn't make Meth Amphetamine...period....Man did.
He also didn't make heroin...Man did.
The plants shouldn't be illegal...how the can you make a plant illegal and say you are doing god's work?
God made that plant.
Last edited by whottt; 12-05-2007 at 01:02 AM.
Where have you been all this time???????????/
Ah, I see you hadn't yet been introduced to Clandestino.
You should just c/p your information from the Drugs thread. Especially the stuff about how the government is locking people up for buying meth on the street and then prescribing it to children. The stuff about how man has used the plant forms of most drugs for most of human history too.
Anyway, thanks for posting the article Blaze. I forwarded it to my parents, since they both believe the gateway theory. Sorry to hijack the thread for a sec talking about my old habits.
If Marijuana wasn't illegal it wouldn't be a gateway drug...that's for sure.
It's a gateway drug because often in the process of obtaining it you get involved with people doing other drugs....
IF legal it would also be extremely easy to benefit from it's many(cheap) medical benefits.
People also wouldn't have to cultivate relationships with some(sometimes) seriously ed up people to obtain it...
Kids wouldn't be afraid to talk about it with their parents.
People wouldn't feel in the back of their minds that they are wrong, or bad, for using it, guilt, shame etc...which can cause negative reactions.
And a lot of time the reason they are using it in the first place is because they are already feeling bad, guilt shame etc...and they want help or some kind of release.
I mean no one feels bad when the doctors are giving them meth...because the doctors are giving it to them.
Anyway...this stuff is about to come to a head...the knowledge sharing of the internet is making the human race smarter as a whole IMO.
Edit: Mavfan and Rocketfan exluded of course.
Last edited by whottt; 12-05-2007 at 06:17 AM.
JT and R'nR: can I ask how old you guys are? I'm just curious because I have not done an illegal drug in roughly 15 yrs, because of responsibilities (children), but am well experienced with the daily use of the legal ones: prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin, ritalin and the occasional valium (i.e. all the "mother's little helpers"). Now that my oldest child is 13, I'd like to have a sense of the experiences and drug related thoughts of younger people (especially males).
I'm 21, in college and constantly around an atmosphere that at the very least just "looks the other way" when it comes to drugs. But I didn't start smoking weed until I was 18 and didn't do cocaine till I was 20. If you're trying to guard against your teens doing drugs, or being faced with the decision, the best thing to do is have a talk with them about it, lay all of the facts on the table. Like I said earlier, I won't flat out tell anyone not to use drugs since I used them, but with teens it's a different story. In my case, I was on my own and made the decision with next to no peer pressure.
I'm not a parent, not even close, but here's what I can tell you about my experiences when I was younger and why it took me until age 18 to try drugs. When I was very young my grandfather took me fishing and talked to me about alcohol, tobacco and drugs. At that time I'd had some anti-drug education in school and he asked me to promise him never to do any of the three. Being young and admiring my grandfather, I honored the promise for years. As I kept going through school, I had more anti-drug education in school and my stepfather developed a bad problem with alcoholism. He would curse and scream at my mother, and one time threw her through a wooden fence. So, I had that experience to draw upon as a reason to not drink. I was offered pot once in 9th grade, and even though I was listening to all kinds of classic rock and watching stoner movies, I said no. I would say that most of the friends I had in high school had never done drugs either, or did not have habits. We did safe things like going to Spurs games, going to movies, laser tag and mostly just hung out and watched TV. I wasn't into the drinking and party crowd until college. I did end up drinking in high school with my dad, and then later with some friends, but it wasn't really part of our lives throughout high school.
So, if you have a school aged teen, I would recommend getting them involved in some kind of extracurricular activity at school. Choir, band, sports... something like that. If a teen has something they really love to do, and it is a positive part of their life, they are less likely to try drugs or even feel like they should seek them.
The other thing to watch out for is peer pressure. A lot of people will be okay with someone telling them no. After all if somebody says no, that's more pot to smoke for everyone else, or whatever it is they're doing. The prepare for that I would just talk to your kid(s) about the fact that people may offer them drugs at some point. Make them aware of this situation and prepare them to say no so they don't get nervous or frightened and cave in. I was always aware of what drugs were, and I knew that some people I knew were using them when I was in HS, but it was never a problem. I surrounded myself with friends who were clean and it was never an issue for me until college.
In college, I started drinking a lot more as everyone does. Going to Texas State doesn't help since beer flows like the river here. Anyway, I started drinking more and one night I was with some friends at their house. I was pretty drunk and was very loud, so they tried to get me stoned to calm me down. I didn't get high that time, but they kept trying until I finally got stoned. Of course, I really enjoyed getting stoned and when I was at parties and people were passing pipes around, I would smoke. I moved into cocaine a few years later. In the mean time I did start smoking pot to the point where I had my own pipes and knew dealers that I could get it from. On my birthday, the dealer I bought weed from gave me a half gram of coke for free... and that's when it all went downhill for me. I underestimated its addictive potential and pretty soon I was getting the stuff all the time. I already explained the rest of this story earlier, but thankfully I rediscovered the will power that kept me clean for 18 years and have applied it to kicking my coke habit. I haven't been smoking pot because I need to pass a drug test, but I suspect I will continue to smoke and drink for a while.
I have always resigned myself to the fact that the day will eventually come when I have to hold a job and maybe support a family too, at which point these habits will have to stop.
As far as my thoughts on drugs, like everything in life, they can be good and enjoyable if used in moderation. Because using has caused problems in my life, I would not recommend anything with addictive potential. Obviously, I don't think kids should be getting into this kind of thing. My situation is a little different than a 13 year old's, since I support myself and make my own decisions. My best advice to you would be to equip your children with as much information about drugs and alcohol before they leave the nest. For now, make sure that they have good friends who won't tempt them to use and try to get them involved in some kind of hobby that they enjoy. Those two things alone will go a long way to keeping away from drugs.
Hope that helped.
Thanks JT. I agree information and communication are the only way to go. I want my son to have the knowledge and information to be able to make the right decisions for HIMSELF (when he is a bit more mature). What I worry aboutright now is peer pressure; I'm very fortunate that my kids have never been the "follow the crowd type"; and have always been told by teachers that they "definitely have their own ideas". Right now my son is an exceptional student and lives for basketball. He plays for school right now, but always plays in 2 leagues concurrently. When I was your age, I pretty much partied my life away, and tried everything that didn't involve a needle. I'm really scared about the "Did you do drugs Mom?" question, cuz I know it's coming!!
I can imagine that would be tough on a parent. I never told my parents about my coke habit because there is an extreme stigma associated with that drug, plus it's expensive and I didn't want them to know my money was going toward that. But I did talk to both of my parents about my pot use and in general they weren't hard on me about it. They admitted they had done it and talked to me about being high. But, it's probably a different situation for a teen. I guess the best thing to do is tell the truth, and say that you don't need drugs to be happy. Say you love them and that's a better high than any drug can give you.
Well I suppose when the time comes that's what I'll do. Although my first instinct is to look them straight in the eye and lie through my teeth!! LOL
mrsmaalox - I'm 32 and was highly anti-drugs until about 19 when I started to do some research and realised the ridiculous double-standard we apply to cigarettes/alcohol vs everything else.
Even though I now believe in decriminalisation, I'm glad I never tried anything as a teenager because the science is pretty strong to suggest that mind-altering substances (including alcohol) disproportionately affect developing brain chemistry - ie. teenagers are far more likely to develop chronic problems such as mental illness from drug use than adults are.
And I contend that in at least some cases...those brain chemistry changes are the symptoms of what lead them to mind altering substances in the first place.
But how many people do you know that are truly normal? I know lots of seriously ed up people that have never taken a drug in their life.
Who is this perfect normal person of which we speak?
I want to meet them...it's certainly not me, though were you to meet me in person, you would never know that.
IT's like any personality trait now gets a classification or something...some extreme like mental illness, some are merely classified as psychological tendencies or conditions...most of it is BS.
Additionally...there are theories that some forms of mental illness, like schizophrenia...are the brain attempting to heal itself. It's usually stress that triggers a schitzophrenic episode in most schizophrenics. You might even argue it's a defense mechanism.
Lots of schizophrenics suffered severe physical and mental abuse during their childhood...
I'm not saying there's no such thing as mental illness...but I am saying that most doing drugs for their first time have some incubating issues to begin with. That's why they are turning towards drugs...and I haven't anything to convince me the that the doctors give out is better for you than the plants man used for hundreds of thousands of years.
As for abuse...you use anything as a crutch...it's going to cause problems, even if you are mature.
But I look at it this way...we did use these plants since the dawn of man, no matter how well popular history has covered these tracks in the last century or so. We wouldn't have made it this far if they were bad for us.
And by far, some of the brutal and most oppressive cultures in the history of mankind...completely supressed the usage of any kind of plant drugs.
Those asshat terrorists in the ME? Those guys are completely anti-drug. They'll sell them to make money...but using them is completely frowned upon.
The Native Americans smoked it...they weren't a particularly ed up culture...indeed, they were a culture that was quite at harmony within themselves...they weren't technologically sophisticated...then again, they didn't need to be based on their environment.
I think these plants were the basis of spirituality, perhaps even sentient thought itself...I think we cut ourselves off from them...we're going to be cutting ourselves off from a huge part of our cultural evolution...and I don't necessarily see that as being an obvious change for the better.
Nor do I see man improved drugs as being something necessarily compatible with human physiology.
Kinda like...wind power, water power, solar power...we used these things centuries ago and petroleum was the advancement...but was it really? If it was....why are we now trying to take a step back?
I will read it later, after I fininsh smoking this blunt.
To each his own is my motto.
yup, some people like to add to society while others like to add to society's problems...To each his own is my motto.
That can be said of many things.
Yeah, because all people who use any kind of recreational drug are adding to society's problems, while those who drink and smoke and overeat and clog up the health system with avoidable diseases aren't...
OPEN YOUR EYES.
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