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Have you watched Bowen's career rather then just 1 game? I mean the guy has made a ing living by playing defense.
Even if he had a bad night defensively, which I don't think he did, that's the onl game you'd judge him on?
Nice
Have you watched Bowen's career rather then just 1 game? I mean the guy has made a ing living by playing defense.
Even if he had a bad night defensively, which I don't think he did, that's the onl game you'd judge him on?
Nice
where were you the other two games when he went for 37/5/5? are you telling me kobe and lebron dont have games where they have 6+ turnovers and 35% FG%? without much help? last night the spurs team was awful compared to the lakers or the cavs. kobe has odom +a comparable roster, lebron has Z and a comparable roster. when manu had parker with him it was comparable to lebron + z or kobe + odom. but i guess you are going to tell me that vaughn-bowen-bonner-elson > fisher-walton-odom-kwame
IIRC at halftime, Kobe was 1 for 7 when BB was on him. He was getting his points when someone else was guarding him.During this game, Kobe was 7-for-20 when Bowen was in the game. He was 3-for-4 when Bowen was out of the game.
But yeah, Bowen has no effect on Kobe anymore
So much for those Ginobili/James/Bryant comparisons.
-Jacque Vaughn started and showed why he’s a bench player. He hit only 1-of-7 shots from the field and didn’t handle the defensive pressure very well. I loved his energy and toughness, but there’s more to basketball than energy and toughness. Overall though, Vaughn didn’t lose the game. He played his role well enough for the Spurs to win.
I disagree. The offense was stagnant with him in. Little to none moving the ball around. More often than not, it was "Watch Jacque dribble.....dribbble....dribble some more, and then pull up for a brick"......
Yeah, he showed why his is a backup. And a backup that should not spend much time trying to run the team. Especially when the team is minus two of it's main players.
I would have liked to seen Washington play a lot more last night. Sure, he will make some mistakes. But at least he has the energy and hustle that everyone seems to like about Vaughn, while also being an offensive threat.
If you are going to call Washington up, at least give him the PT to show what he can do......
I think if Washington gets JVs minutes, we win that game.
JV is just plain limited as to what he can do on a basketball court. he needs to know his limitations and his capabilities. he's not a strong finisher at the rim or a jump shooter. so he needs to move the ball instead of dribbling the ball for most of the shot clock and hoisting up a ridiculous j. now, this kid DWash is going to be decent once he puts it all together. he reminds me a lot of baron davis in terms of build and fearlessnes attacking the rim. i would be happy if pop took a chance on him and threw him to the wolves so he can really demonstrate his value to the team. i really like the intensity this guy gives at both ends of the court.
Kobe had to run Shaq off so he could be the lone gunman? Methinks not.
And I don't think Manu needs to learn that lesson; he already knows it's a team sport and that he thrives playing with other great players.
Trade Manu???
agree but not with the washington part. vaughn got caught underneath the basket a few times with no where to go and ended up turning the ball over.
i would have played either brent or manu at the point and just screw the defense on fisher especially at the last 6 minute mark. we needed to outscore them at that point. and given darius' less than stellar performance from the outside and at the free throw line, i would pull him out.
Last edited by m33p0; 12-14-2007 at 10:36 AM.
sure. and watch AT&T burn to the ground. don't forget to bring the marshmallows.
You mean those two games where Tony Parker was playing?
No, I'm not saying Kobe and LeBron don't have poor games. I'm saying Manu gets a glimpse of what Kobe and LeBron have had to go through for the last several years. That's all.
By the way, last year, Odom missed 26 games, Walton missed 22 games, Kwambe Brown missed 41 games. And there were long stretches where Kobe was missing all three of those regular starters at the same time and had play with much worse than what Manu had last night. Radmanovic also missed 27 games and Turiaf 10.
I'll tell you Bowen-Oberto-Barry-Finley-Horry-Vaughn is better than Smush Parker-Mo Evans-Brian Cook-Bynum-Vujacic.
As for LeBron, he hasn't had help his whole career in Cleveland. If you want to say Z is a pretty good player, that's fine. He's far from a player that substantially helps consistently at either end of the floor.
My original post wasn't a blast on Manu. It's to say how truly incredible Kobe and LeBron have been the last few seasons because they have to deal with what Manu had to deal with last night for the last couple seasons and still found ways to win while being everything for the team offensively. Manu slappies will get offended at anything that could be perceived as insulting to him. That's not what I was doing.
There you go bringing up a point that had nothing to do with my comment. And, you take a jab at Kobe for something that pretty much has been determined didn't happen. It's pretty much acknowledged now that it was all about Dr. Buss why Shaq was traded and that Kobe didn't play a role in the decision. But, anything to take a shot at Kobe.
And, I didn't say it was a lesson for Manu. Just expressing my "thought" from the game, as that is the point of the thread.
Its hard to say if the Spurs really well considering no Duncan or Parker or if the Lakers were not playing as hard because of no Duncan or Parker. Either way, the game was entertaining at times. I liked from what I saw from Darius. The guy is athletic for his size and fearless. Manu looks tired and the Spurs really need Duncan back.
I think it's 'pretty much been determined' that it did happen. But if there's good evidence out there that it didn't, I'd be interested in seeing it. Where are you getting this?
Kobe's vehement claims that he didn't ask for Shaq to be traded, and Dr. Buss and the rest of Lakers brass not denying that claim. Kobe and Shaq may have not gotten along well. But, Kobe did not "run Shaq off." He didn't not have a vote in the decision to trade him. Where are you getting that it "did happen?"
JamStone,
You also need to consider that Lebron and Kobe are used to play like that for is the way they play all season, is different when you find yourself in that position for a bunch of games, you need to re-adapt your game and that is not easy either.
Take that into consideration all you want. That's fine. Again, my comments are not a slight to Manu. Manu is one of my favorite players to watch. And, seeing him struggle having to carry the bulk of the offensive responsibilities tells me how hard Kobe and LeBron have had it. My comments are complimentary of Kobe and LeBron, not insulting towards Manu.
Manu and spurs are not used to this situation. They were not sure how to do. But, if this situation continued, Manu and spurs would figure out an efficient way to deal with it.
The long layoff hurt the lakers last night but they won a game they should have won.
Didn't care for the change in the starting lineup last night. It was waltons first game back from injury and I don't know what the heck is wrong with Odom but they were not having the best of games. Maybe they would be better coming off the bench. The Lakers are so deep it shouldn't matter who starts or not. I would like to see a little more energy at the beginning of the game. Turiaf should start and get Ariza primed to start at the 3 and the Lakers future looks pretty bright.
Good to see the Lakers finally getting a little recognition.
Good to see the Lakers finally getting a little recognition.
I agree with seeing the silver lining from the Spurs' perspective on this one. Take two all-star caliber players away from any team and it will struggle. Take away a big who commands double-teams and controls the paint defensively and a point who constantly attacks and creates shots by drawing defense (even if his assist totals might not show it) and that team is in a bad way. With that adversity, the Spurs experimented and almost found their way to a win. It's become the Popovich formula with this group of role players -- play hard and see what happens. They did that last night and nearly got out of Staples with another win.
I suppose I'm always inclined to take a broader view than just one game, and I have to say that the broader view of the last week or so strikes me as being extremely rosy for the Spurs if they can stay healthy. We've seen now that the depth of this team is good enough to split 4 games against playoff teams without Duncan while having a legitimate shot to take 3 of those 4. They were sloppy for huge chunks of last night's game, but were still right there. History certainly suggests that the sloppiness is something that will improve. I don't think this team is going very far without Tim Duncan, but these 4 games have certainly shown that if you take Duncan away, the Spurs can be fairly compe ive in the short run against quality teams at home or on the road. I don't think it's just as simple as adding Duncan back in and assuming they'll roll in games like these last 4, but I do think that we'll see just how Tim can make the game easier for his teammates (Manu, in particular) and that gives me great hope for where this team can go.
As always, your entire post is wonderful. I agree with everything you said and appreciate your calming influence on this board. I also have great hope for this team and believe a repeat seems more likely this season than in past chances.
I hope that people who seem to forget what Duncan brings to this team will rediscover him when he comes back.
It easy to miss things that don't show in a boxscore. Duncan is way more than a double-double player to this team.
His season so far has not been great by his standards but I'm hoping the respect for him comes back.
The Spurs do not win a Championship without him.
one thing that the team could take away from that game was the roleplayers found out that they had it in them to win. just have to figure out what went right. of course, having horry with his experience really helps.
I'm missing something here. What does this mean?
People keep saying it, but I don't know where they're getting this.
Anyone?
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