Another possible long three who may be available

[SpursIndonesia]

Whoever it is, i just love the Spurs to have a perimeter player which is young, at least 6'8" tall, and defensively good enough to be Bowen successor in the future -i'm not sold at all with Ime Udoka.

[ss1986v2]

Whoever it is, i just love the Spurs to have a perimeter player which is young, at least 6'8" tall, and defensively good enough to be Bowen successor in the future -i'm not sold at all with Ime Udoka.

just for the record, who in the league fits that role? marion (although not that young anymore)? aside from that, i cant name too many. maybe jamario moon, but the kid doesnt have any kind of shot right now (aside from dunks and put-backs) and no way toronto lets him go anytime soon. theres a reason why everyone refers to it as the "mythical long three".

as for other wing additions, i like azubuike and delfino. delfino is restricted, and i think buike might be too (from what i gather from warrior fan). but i think both have the potential to fill in nicely. delfino is young, big, and athletic (25 yrs, 6'6", 225), is a great slasher, has good range, and is a solid defender. problem is he has only really exploded this year, which is his contract year (too be fair though, he was stuck in detroit). also, his shot selection comes into question at times and his shot is a bit streaky too. but i think he would fit very well in the spurs system and mesh well chemistry wise too.

buike is a bit more of an unknown. it all depends as to whether you believe nellie-ball can translate to actual basketball lol. if so, the kid has the same physical tools that delfino has, and then some. with what he lacks on the defensive end, he makes up with unselfish offensive play (a bit of an oxymoron in nellie-ball). my biggest issue with buike is that he is last on the warriors in +/- this season (something like -52 this season). but that might straighten itself out over the course of an entire season, so i wont hold that against him yet.

[Darkwaters]

I have another prospect for a replacement 3: Rasual Butler.

Word is that Rasual told has given a trade "demand" unless the Hornets give him more playing time. His time on the court has definitely increased, but he still might be on the block as a result of his objection.

Hes 6'7, long and athletic. He is known as a ranged shooter and has shown a propensity to play solid defense when he puts his mind to it. While he has good height and length, he does lack something in the strength category, however.

[SenorSpur]

What I'm not clear about is why Memphis wants to get rid of Warrick. What's the deal there? Wrong style of ball?

From what I understand, Warrick doesn't seem to fit new Grizzlies coach Mark Iavaroni's wide-open, Phoenix-style, run-n-gun, brand of offense. Can't hit the 3-ball consistently. Same situation as with Gasol.

[wildbill2u]

I wonder if the long 3 is as needed right now as it was once thought (Dirk's vanishing act is obviously the main reason for that.)...

You may be right. The era of small ball seems to be upon us. There aren't many really dangerous teams who have a super long three to worry us like Dirk.

Let me throw a outrageous theory out. Splitter may be our long three against teams who have really long threes (like Dirk.)

From watching the vids on Splitter I noticed something. His coaches consistently played him out at the 3pt arc. He was fast enough to drive from there, played the pick and roll from there and had a decent outside shot. This means he's pretty mobile for a guy that big.

Granted that he's now moved inside since Scola is gone from that team, but I think he could defend against Dirk as well as anybody.

[smrattler]

Does Bowen qualify as a "long 3"? He seems pretty average sized SF, actually pretty small compared to most that outweigh him. More built like a SG probably. And he's only played a billion games in a row at a very high level for us. I just want someone that can play, I don't care about their measurables.

Besides, a "long 3" is an oxymoron.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Bowen is technically a "long 3". He's a bit too short, although pretty good size for a traditional SF; also, the long 3 term suggests a guy who can slide over to play PF and do some PF things like block shots and especially rebound, neither of which Bowen can do.

[thekingrobert]

ill pass on both plus who are the spur gonna trade and mckey was a poor man scottie pippen these ppl cant even shoot

[ChumpDumper]

I saw Brandon Bowman play for Bakersfield in person last month and on TV today. He's always been a good defender and he's been pretty impressive offensively now that he has to be the man on that team. He got three breakaway steals in a row on the televised game against Anaheim leading to a huge dunk, a blown dunk and a embarrassed layup respectively. He's about the same size as Dominic McGuire.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfil...brandon_bowman

[Mr. Body]

There's always room for embarrassed layups on the Spurs.

[tav1]

ChumpDumper, your d-league insight is really great. I don't follow the D-league but I appreciate your comments--you've given me interest.

Wings: I especially like Andre Iguodala if he were not a) outside our price range and b) restricted. Beyond him, Josh Childress and Trevor Ariza hold some appeal, and they may be obtainable. At guard, Carlos Del Fino and Tony Allen are probably within the Spurs' price range. And the Bulls have a 2/3 named Thabo Sefolosha that is sometimes impressive. And, again, Hakim Warrick could be worthwhile. It's a good market, both in terms of talent and price.

Sergio Rodriquez will be a free agent next summer. We won't need a point, but he seems really promising.

And honestly, the Spurs could stand to readdress their interior D. Another bonafide shot blocker (read: not Oberto, not Elson) to clog the lane would certainly help, especially as Duncan climbs through his 30s. Maybe Splitter, maybe not. I wonder if someone like Zo Mourning could play the role of Horry next year--cagey vet at a decent price that is mostly a playoff guy. Zo doesn't command much money.

But more than likely, the Spurs will go under the radar with most of their holes and choose a blue chipper that will help keep them flexible.

[ChumpDumper]

A couple of prospects have already been scooped out of the D-League by European teams already, but a few decent ones remain like Bowman, Sean Banks and of course DerMarr Johnson.

I agree about the blocking issue. If he had any perimeter skills at all, I'd think about Stephane Lasme. He's averaging 2.7 blocks a game mainly because he got six Friday and eight today.

[AFBlue]

as for other wing additions, i like azubuike and delfino. delfino is restricted, and i think buike might be too (from what i gather from warrior fan). but i think both have the potential to fill in nicely. delfino is young, big, and athletic (25 yrs, 6'6", 225), is a great slasher, has good range, and is a solid defender. problem is he has only really exploded this year, which is his contract year (too be fair though, he was stuck in detroit). also, his shot selection comes into question at times and his shot is a bit streaky too. but i think he would fit very well in the spurs system and mesh well chemistry wise too.

buike is a bit more of an unknown. it all depends as to whether you believe nellie-ball can translate to actual basketball lol. if so, the kid has the same physical tools that delfino has, and then some. with what he lacks on the defensive end, he makes up with unselfish offensive play (a bit of an oxymoron in nellie-ball). my biggest issue with buike is that he is last on the warriors in +/- this season (something like -52 this season). but that might straighten itself out over the course of an entire season, so i wont hold that against him yet.

IMO, Delfino falls into that category of popular possible free agents along with guys like Pietrus, Childress, JR Smith and others. It's not that I think the Spurs won't show interest in these guys, but I'm not sure how much interest they'll have. Again, they don't traditionally go after the FA you and I would necessarily think of right away (re: Ime Udoka?).

On Azubuike's contract, I see that he has a player option for next year and would be making slightly above $750K if he decided to stay with the Warriors. While I'm not sure what his market would be, I can almost guarantee that he gets better than $1M in FA...and so I'd guess he's almost an automatic opt-out candidate.

As such, I'm not sure how a player can opt out of his deal yet still be a "restricted" FA. Is there someone that can offer clarification on this?

On him as a player, I think he has the ability to be a defensive stopper but those numbers certainly are troubling. I would attribute it in some sense, however, to GS system. It was just "food for thought" on a possible under-the-rader FA for next off-season.

[AFBlue]

A couple of prospects have already been scooped out of the D-League by European teams already, but a few decent ones remain like Bowman, Sean Banks and of course DerMarr Johnson.

I agree about the blocking issue. If he had any perimeter skills at all, I'd think about Stephane Lasme. He's averaging 2.7 blocks a game mainly because he got six Friday and eight today.

Sean Banks...didn't he play at Memphis? With Washington? What has that kid been up to since going undrafted a couple years ago?

I seem to remember it was his off-court behavior that scared some teams off....has he kept his nose clean of late?

[ss1986v2]

On Azubuike's contract, I see that he has a player option for next year and would be making slightly above $750K if he decided to stay with the Warriors. While I'm not sure what his market would be, I can almost guarantee that he gets better than $1M in FA...and so I'd guess he's almost an automatic opt-out candidate.

As such, I'm not sure how a player can opt out of his deal yet still be a "restricted" FA. Is there someone that can offer clarification on this?

no doubt he opts out. and i too would love some clarification on buike's contract situation. but from what i can gather from warrior fans on other boards, and larry coon's cba breakdown:

Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first-round draft picks (see question number 41). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player's rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.

it appears that the warriors will have matching rights.

i think both buike and delfino are longshots, but i think they make the best fits. my first choice would be delfino though. i think he would fit right along with the rest of the team. solid defender, good slasher, decent outside shot. doesnt that just scream spurs material? yes, i know the spurs never seem to do what we think they should (and why should they, they seem to know what the they are doing, right?), but with the luxury tax no longer an imminent concern, i hope they choose to splurge a bit and go after on of the more "known" options. and out of that group we've discussed (childress, pietrus, smith, buike, delfino), delfino is by far my favorite right now.

[ChumpDumper]

Sean Banks...didn't he play at Memphis? With Washington? What has that kid been up to since going undrafted a couple years ago?

I seem to remember it was his off-court behavior that scared some teams off....has he kept his nose clean of late?

Same guy. It says something that he is performing well in the triangle and the D-fenders kept him on another season. His worst offensive attribute is his flat-trajectory jumper.

[Darkwaters]

Wings: I especially like Andre Iguodala if he were not a) outside our price range and b) restricted. Beyond him, Josh Childress and Trevor Ariza hold some appeal, and they may be obtainable. At guard, Carlos Del Fino and Tony Allen are probably within the Spurs' price range. And the Bulls have a 2/3 named Thabo Sefolosha that is sometimes impressive. And, again, Hakim Warrick could be worthwhile. It's a good market, both in terms of talent and price.

Sergio Rodriquez will be a free agent next summer. We won't need a point, but he seems really promising.

And honestly, the Spurs could stand to readdress their interior D. Another bonafide shot blocker (read: not Oberto, not Elson) to clog the lane would certainly help, especially as Duncan climbs through his 30s. Maybe Splitter, maybe not. I wonder if someone like Zo Mourning could play the role of Horry next year--cagey vet at a decent price that is mostly a playoff guy. Zo doesn't command much money.

But more than likely, the Spurs will go under the radar with most of their holes and choose a blue chipper that will help keep them flexible.

Andre Igoudala - You're kidding right? Somebody is going to throw way too much money at him for us to be involved. If Rashard Lewis gets max money then surely this guy is out of our price range. And as you mentioned, any reaonable offers would simply be matched.

Josh Childress - He should be a popular target this offseason and will likely be restricted. I forsee him getting traded at the deadline by a team that seeks to resign him. Unless we're that team I don't think we'll snag him up.

Trevor Ariza - This guy just got traded to the Lakers for scraps. If the Spurs were high on him I would have figured they might have gotten in on the game when Orlando was selling low. Besides, the guy can't shoot. If you really want a defense first, second and third guy with no idea where or what to do on the other end of the court I recommend you look at Marcus Dove from OK State in the 2nd round of the upcoming draft.

Carlos Delfino - I wouldn't mind taking a look at this guy. But, unfortunately, hes just another restricted free agent that will likely take a considerable paycheck to pry him loose from Toronto. The more likely Raptor wing to be moved seems to be Joey Graham who has never really carved out a role for himself. This is especially true if Printezis is looking to cross the pond this next year as well. Still, Delfino is a quality target.

Tony Allen - Never really had much interest in him. He hasn't been all too impressive this year so far with a Boston team in dire need of depth. He could be a below the radar type target like the Spurs like, but I think thats unlikely.

Thabo Sefolosha - Why is he even being brought up? Hes not going to be a free agent for nearly 3 years and the Bulls were pretty high on him last I heard. I doubt they'd trade him for our scraps. If they would I'd be all over that.

Hakim Warrick - I'd definitely be interested in him. And it seems theres a buyers market for him as well. I'm just not sure if we'd still have the chips to buy his services though, all things considered. I don't want to break the team's chemistry by trading good cogs away for a "potentially" good cog. Still, a rock that needs to be overturned.

Sergio Rodriguez - Where are you getting your information? Spanish Chocolate still has two years left on his contract and is restricted after that. Sure I'd like him, but I doubt Portland wants to trade with us and hes NOT a FA like you think.

Alonzo Mourning - We've been after him HARD for the last 2 years or so. He seems content to stay in Miami and lose lose lose. Remember, Zo has a ring, and he won't be lured so easily with promises of 'ships. I imagine we'll make another run at his veteran minimum services this year again though.

[AFBlue]

no doubt he opts out. and i too would love some clarification on buike's contract situation. but from what i can gather from warrior fans on other boards, and larry coon's cba breakdown:


it appears that the warriors will have matching rights.

i think both buike and delfino are longshots, but i think they make the best fits. my first choice would be delfino though. i think he would fit right along with the rest of the team. solid defender, good slasher, decent outside shot. doesnt that just scream spurs material? yes, i know the spurs never seem to do what we think they should (and why should they, they seem to know what the they are doing, right?), but with the luxury tax no longer an imminent concern, i hope they choose to splurge a bit and go after on of the more "known" options. and out of that group we've discussed (childress, pietrus, smith, buike, delfino), delfino is by far my favorite right now.

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.

[AFBlue]

Same guy. It says something that he is performing well in the triangle and the D-fenders kept him on another season. His worst offensive attribute is his flat-trajectory jumper.

Sounds like this guy is a younger and cheaper version of Travis Outlaw. Or is he closer to Trevor Ariza? Either way, it doesn't sound bad...

[AFBlue]

I'd like to see the Spurs go in-house with a "long 3/small ball 4" option by continuing to watch Marcus Williams' development in Austin. While it's clear Marcus needs to gain some weight, he has the length to bother bigger forwards in a small-ball lineup.

I'm sure Chump could shed more light on the possibility of Marcus playing a small-ball 4, but it would seem to be a potential solution.

[Darkwaters]

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.

Well, there are a couple of interesting themes that could play out this upcoming offseason. And you just might get your wish...just not in the form you thought.

The Spurs have tended to "go young" through the draft n' stash route. But our stockpiles of young international talent are wearing thin. Scola and Mahinmi are no longer in the "farm". Splitter promises to be abroad shortly. Javtokas is no longer a real prospect and Karaulov never panned out in the least. If Tiago joins the silver and black this next year then the team-less Sanikidze is our only foreign prospect in the pipes.

Sounds like its time to restock the shelves.

With three draft picks in this upcoming draft, and three in the draft the year after, I think this could become a recurring theme for the next 24 months. And after passing on Markota and Printezis (and bombing out on Marcus Williams) we're due for some traditional Spurs draft n' stash.

Now, when it comes to FA signings I'm not sure what they'll look to do. It depends on what internationals they stock the shelves with first. But I'm all for a quality young wing on the team NOW (JR Smith, James White! and Marcus Williams...I suppose the 4th time is the charm). But when it comes to picking up additional post players I think we need a savvy vet with some shotblocking skill. And I am all for the retaining of the current PG roster following the eventual promotion of Darius Washington.

[ss1986v2]

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.

agree completely. and the pietrus thing is what really kills me. physical tools wise, he is probably the best pick-up. and he'd be the easiest to acquire. but he is dead last for me in terms of who id actually like to see here. id be willing to bet a moderately intelligent pair of air jordans has more basketball IQ than him. and he doesnt do any of the little things right (or at all). its a damn shame. so much wasted...

the only positive going into this offseason is the state of the market: its going to be a buyers market this year. with more teams than ever pushing closer to the luxury tax line (and quite a few over already), it appears the nba may have at least a partially "hard" cap (in a way). very few teams have more than the MLE to offer (and most of those have their own FAs to deal with) and many that do have the MLE potentially wont/cant use some/all of it because of the tax implications, ie, not liking to have to pay double for what may amount to an overpaid role player.

so many owners are concerned with the tax line (spurs included) that you may not see too many horribly misplaced deals. i think the days of players like lefrentz and wally getting getting 10 mil per year deals is over (as seen with the reluctance of teams to break the bank on the '04 draft class this offseason). i think owners and gms are getting to the point of really making a stand against unreasonable expectations from players (see: ferry and the cavs). its an interesting trend to follow, and may benefit team like the spurs, who arent in imminent danger from the tax line.

[Darkwaters]

Nobody trades players in the NBA. They trade contracts.

That is only becoming more and more true.

[AFBlue]

Nobody trades players in the NBA. They trade contracts.

That is only becoming more and more true.

Agree to some extent.

I think there are still those deals for picks/prospects and those deals for disgruntled superstars, but I'd agree with you that you rarely see deals for "role players" that is not motivated financially at its base.

Take, for example, the Hermann/Brezec for Nazr deal. It has been clear since nearly right after the Pistons signed Nazr that he didn't belong and that his contract would be a burden. They finally found someone desperate enough to take the remaining years of his contract and they just so happened to get a fairly decent player in return. But at it's base, the long-term contract was the motivation for the move.

[AFBlue]

agree completely. and the pietrus thing is what really kills me. physical tools wise, he is probably the best pick-up. and he'd be the easiest to acquire. but he is dead last for me in terms of who id actually like to see here. id be willing to bet a moderately intelligent pair of air jordans has more basketball IQ than him. and he doesnt do any of the little things right (or at all). its a damn shame. so much wasted....

I don't think he'd be a total waste, but I wonder at what cost does the risk of him never "getting it" become too great. For truly unrestricted free agents though, you make a good point about the market. Unless someone offers Pietrus a full MLE deal, I would expect a bunch of teams to be in on grabbing him.....and given the Spurs' reputation as championship contenders and international-friendly, I think the Spurs could be compe ive if they decided to persue.

the only positive going into this offseason is the state of the market: its going to be a buyers market this year. with more teams than ever pushing closer to the luxury tax line (and quite a few over already), it appears the nba may have at least a partially "hard" cap (in a way). very few teams have more than the MLE to offer (and most of those have their own FAs to deal with) and many that do have the MLE potentially wont/cant use some/all of it because of the tax implications, ie, not liking to have to pay double for what may amount to an overpaid role player.

so many owners are concerned with the tax line (spurs included) that you may not see too many horribly misplaced deals. i think the days of players like lefrentz and wally getting getting 10 mil per year deals is over (as seen with the reluctance of teams to break the bank on the '04 draft class this offseason). i think owners and gms are getting to the point of really making a stand against unreasonable expectations from players (see: ferry and the cavs). its an interesting trend to follow, and may benefit team like the spurs, who arent in imminent danger from the tax line.

Like I said above, I agree with you that truly unrestricted free agents should come at a bargain price. But, with so many "restricted" free agents on the market, I think you could see alot of teams returning their players....as with what happened to Varejao. The "restricted" status of so many coveted FAs makes me think it won't be quite as strong a buyer's market as it should be.