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good pt,
jvg was a good rocket reg. season coach, but not in the postseason
Listen to this guy talk like he knows what a "true" point guard is.
As if their is such a thing as a "true" player at any position.
Tony has enough rings and a Finals MVP to shut anyone up who says he isn't a "true" anything.
good pt,
jvg was a good rocket reg. season coach, but not in the postseason
The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.
I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.
I've seen him blow past some defenders with speed and finish in the paint. I've seen him come off some screens and knock down some jumpshots. I've seen him lob the ball into the post for Tim to isolate. Look Tony Parker is a very, very good player. But your out your ing mind if you think he's a traditional, pass-first PG capable of creating much for anyone else, or even himself besides layups. (at least in the way Nash, Deron, Paul and Kidd are capable)
And if you want to debate the notion that there aren't traditonal or "true" models for every position, go ahead, but it's a ing stupid thing to think. Especially when it comes to PG's. By your logic Allen Iverson is as much of a PG as John Stockton was. Give me a in break.
*Edit*
What I find hilarious is that I just went to ESPN and checked out the Steve Nash analysis of other PG's. Here's what he said about Deron.
he's also a true point guard with good vision.
Here's what you said about the existence of "true" players
In the future, don't challenge me on the employment of widely used vernacular and concepts. How embarrasingly stupid.
Last edited by balli; 12-16-2007 at 03:59 PM.
actually, i don't think anybody disputes that parker deserved the MVP last year.
the rest of your criteria is good as a standard for Sportscenter's top plays, not necessarily for a great PG.
when he penetrates the lane (at will mind you), forces the defense to collapse and kicks to the corner for a wide open 3 - does it really matter whether or not that assist dropped your jaw?
he may not be a "traditional pass first PG", but if you don't think he presents opportunities for other's, you're nuts - or just ignorant towards how to run an offense in basketball.
Then how after he won it most of the NBA analysts, most of the NBA beat writers, my own friends, me myself and pretty much everyone else I ever heard commentate on it said he shouldn't have. At least that's how I remember it.
Obviously some people thought Tony Parker shoul;d have won, but to say there wasn't ANY DISPUTE is just foolish. You really think winning or getting to the finals had more to do with TP than Timmy D? Well... oooookaaay. I guess that's your opinion.
Here's Mark Stein's-
Here's Ric Bucher's-Tim Duncan. Because I'm the last guy who can get away with voting for Bruce Bowen ... and because Duncan's mere presence helped Tony Parker get loose in the first two games ... and because defense is winning this championship. We all know the Spurs' D is built around TD.
Here's Henry Abbott's-Tim Duncan. As terrific as it is to see Tony Parker prove himself in an NBA Finals, what the Spurs (Tony included) do begins and ends with Duncan. A vote in their locker room wouldn't be close.
Here's Greg Anthony's-Tim Duncan. He defines the Spurs' defense and makes or facilitates a huge percentage of their points. I appreciate John Hollinger's case for Tony Parker as co-MVP of the Finals. Pending what happens in the rest of the series, I think that would undersell Duncan. Admit that if you were Coach Gregg Popovich and had to face the Cavs in a seven-game series without one of those two players, Parker would be on the bench, right?
Tim Duncan. Yes, Tony Parker has scored more than anyone else. But Duncan is the guy that dominates both ends. He's the only one averaging a double-double and, let's face it, the reason we haven't seen any of LeBron's high-flying spectacular plays is because of a certain someone manning the paint.
No it's not, it's for assesing the ability of a PG to complete difficult passes and break down the defense in multiple ways. (besides just driving and kicking it to the corner)
No it doesn't matter if it dropped my jaw, but it certainly isn't as traditional as a PG who can pass from anywhere in near any situation that said PG is able to create with ball handling, passing skills and court vision. I'm sure you'd admit that.
Besides I've been lauding Parker with praise for his ability to drive the lane at will. And shoot from outside. Don't make it sound like I wasn't. In fact, I first mentioned his name as an example of a PG who had great success despite not being traditional. Not sure why there's been umbrage with that.
Okay, I'll concede his penetration does create opportunity for others. Just not nearly as much or as capably well as other traditional guards do using traditional PG methodology. He does a lot of things a lot better than some traditional guards do. I made that very clear. I also think it's fine. Obviously the Spurs and Tony Parker himself have had a lot of success.
Here's what this argument is really about though:
Cry havoc is just an idiot. This moron was trying to tell me there's no such thing as a true PG, but if there were, Tony Parker would be one. He was wrong on both fronts and was an arrogant in the process.
Last edited by balli; 12-16-2007 at 05:28 PM.
While there is such a thing as a 'true PG' as defined by some people - a better question would be: Should anybody care about a 'true PG' to the point that the phrase is even used?
In the last 8 years, the following PGs won championships: Tony Parker (3), Derek Fisher (3), Chauncey Billups, & Jason Williams/Gary Payton.
Of the guys on that list, only Williams/Payton would fit your definition of a true point, BUT...Dwayne Wade dominated the ball on that team. Did the Heat really have a 'true point' when it was a 2 guard that was putting them into their offense?
By your definition, you have to go all the way back to Isiah and the Bad Boys to find a team that won a le being run by a 'true PG.' (Yeah, Avery in '99 and Kenny Smith in '94-'95 were pass-first PGs, but they weren't thread-the-needle passers and they certainly weren't breaking anybodies ankles on their movies to the hole)
Your whole post is exactly my point. I originally brought it up because someone said Houston needed a true PG. Here's what I said-
So we agree, 100% and exactly. My whole point when bringing TP's name up was that true PG's don't matter.
I started arguing with Cry Havoc because he obnoxiously called me "this guy" before saying they [true pg's] don't even exist. Obviously they exist... whether it matters or not (which you and I both think doesn't).
BTW, sorry for saying "everyone" knew Duncan should have been MVP. Obviously not everyone thought that. A lot of people did though.
Last edited by balli; 12-16-2007 at 06:46 PM.
fair enough - what i get for selective reading in this thread!
As a frustrated Utah Jazz fan I can guarantee that their loss had nothing to do with being outcoached by Jerry Sloan.
If you want my 2 cents- I think JVG is better than Adleman and I don't think their playoff loss had much to do with him. I just think it was a long, tough, 7 game series that both teams played hard in and Utah just had a few more balls bounce their way. I think you guys would've creamed Golden state, so really, you were only a game away from the conference finals with JVG, in my humble opinion.
The Rockets recalled both their D-Leaguers, and the trading season starts soon.
Roster shakeup?
I'm not going to blame the coach on this one. I blamed JVG for the Rockets blunders in the past. That's not an excuse anymore and the Rockets are still inept! The problem stems from the players. A trade is in order.
I can see that, however jvg was stubborn as far as developing young players and running better offensive schemes.
Amen bro, amen, QFT !!
The problem with the Rockets is Yao. I mean come on! He is 7 and a half feet tall! He should be averaging like 50-60 points every game! All he has to do is turn around and set the ball in the basket! Dont' even run him down the floor for defense, just let him stand by his basket all night. Yao should be killin it!!!
Yao lacks the strength and hands to be able to do it. Shaq has both those things and that is why he was able to dominate as much as we was able to do.
someone's sarcasm radar must be broken.
This team isn't even built for Van Wilder...
Same old Story. The Rockets suck and the Nuggets suck even worse. The Rockets will roll into Denver on Thursday and win by double digits
Didn't you predict the Rockets would get back on track against the Nuggs a couple of weeks ago? You're the Rocky Mountain version of Jim.Same old Story. The Rockets suck and the Nuggets suck even worse. The Rockets will roll into Denver on Thursday and win by double digits
McGrady is to blame. He's always been one of the biggest vaginas in the NBA. He likes faking injuries when he's playing like crap. Stick him on Miami with Shaq so they can pretend to be hurt together. They can watch Dwade cry from their front row seats.
http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/
when did Yao lead the Rockets in assists?
yepDidn't you predict the Rockets would get back on track against the Nuggs a couple of weeks ago? You're the Rocky Mountain version of Jim.and they blew the Nuggets out big time
The Nuggets are done for this season. Ive been optimistic for a long time with the team but the reailty is that the coach is horrible and they have a bunch of 'me first' type players.
This Rockets squad is one of the worst shooting teams I have ever seen. Every single one is mailing it in except for Yao. I mean look at their free throws. Is there a legitimate excuse for an entire team shooting free throws like this? Like WTH!
Battier is having a good year though.
Yao led them in assist on that night.
sorry for the confusion.
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