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kobe had shaq on his team. it's highly probable that he would have done what lebron james did in less time if he was surrounded by a ty cast and took as mucha offensive load as Lebronze.
I'm not. LeBron is already the better floor general. He has better offensive awareness, he is a much better passer than Kobe, and Lebron is also shooting 48.5% this season. The highest Kobe has EVER shot in a season is 46.9%. James is already a better rebounder than Kobe will ever be, and is averaging more steals per season than Kobe does, career-wise, although they are probably equal in steals now.
And yes, it's obvious that Kobe is the better defender. However, James is vastly improving the less-than-stellar aspects of his game.
So where does that leave us?
Kobe is the better defender. LeBron is a better shooter, passer, and rebounder. He's also only 22, so is still improving with every game. I think you recall how the Cavs did in the absence of LeBron.
kobe had shaq on his team. it's highly probable that he would have done what lebron james did in less time if he was surrounded by a ty cast and took as mucha offensive load as Lebronze.
Lebron is a better paser and rebounder. Thats it. No way Lebron out shoots Kobe. Lebron can barely make a 3.
Exactly...kobe has won 2 out of the 3 seasons without Shaq as the leading scorer in the NBA. That just shows how much more of a scorer Kobe is.
Kobe didn't even START for his teams the first two years in the league. James would have been the best player on the Cavs if they would have drafted him a full 365 days before they did, when LeBron was a Junior in high school. Kobe averaged 7.6 PPG in his first year in the league. Oh man, you're right. He was SO dominant!
Where is Kobe's WCF appearance? 2nd round?
Oh, right. The Lakers can't get out of the first round. But LeBron took his " ty cast" to the Finals.
Thanks for backing up my argument.
And yet he's shooting almost 4 full percentage points higher than Kobe is this year.Lebron is a better paser and rebounder. Thats it. No way Lebron out shoots Kobe. Lebron can barely make a 3.
Which tells us that either LeBron is a better shooter,
or a smarter shooter.
You know, it's amazing the backwards logic you guys use. Kobe has better teammates and is a better shooter, yet his career best is far below what LeBron is doing this season. Wow, so LeBron is shooting almost 50% and 30 ppg with NO ONE ELSE on his team? He's getting almost 8 dimes a game with NO ONE ELSE ON HIS TEAM?
You guys should be happy he's got for a team. If he had Duncan, Shaq, Boozer, etc., he'd average 10+ assists per game, shoot over 50% and then the debate wouldn't be if they're equal, but how much farther ahead of Kobe LeBron is.
Ah yes. Scoring les make you a better player overall. Just like MVPs make Steve Nash an accomplished defender.Exactly...kobe has won 2 out of the 3 seasons without Shaq as the leading scorer in the NBA. That just shows how much more of a scorer Kobe is.
I'd say the only things that Kobe is flat out better than Lebron in is shooting ability, and defense, but Lebron is improving in those areas quickly. The shooting ability allows Kobe to be a little more of an explosive scorer, but I'd still say Lebron is a better basketball player.
Lebron is a MUCH smarter shooter than Kobe, so I don't know about that, especially considering how immature of a player Kobe was back then. His shot selection is bad now, imagine how bad it would have been back then, if he had the freedom that Lebron has. He would have basically been what Baron Davis is now. A guy that can score 50 at any time, but will also have plenty 2-18 nights for 10 points. That's something you don't have to worry about with Lebron.
LeBron has better shot selection and gets alot more of his points by muscling his way to the basket, which is why his FG% is higher. But he's not a great jump shooter. When he gets hot he's deadly, but he doesn't have nearly as many offensive moves as Kobe does because people don't fear his jumper.
Kobe is a great shooter, IMO. He just takes waaaaaaaaaaaay too many ridiculous shots and he takes them off-balance all the time. Which is dumb and his own fault, I know. But when it comes to straight up pure shooting ability, I'd say Kobe is almost up there with Michael Redd, Dirk, Nash, etc.
Kobe is by far a better shooter than LeBron. If they're playing each other in a game of HORSE, Kobe wins that 10 times out of 10. 100 times out of 100.
That said, I'll take LeBron any day over Kobe.
Last edited by monosylab1k; 12-19-2007 at 05:47 PM.
Yea, Kobe has a of a jumpshot. T-Mac too. They are really two of the best jumpshooters in the NBA, but they shoot too many heavily contested, off-balance shots, thus lowering their percentages.
i simply said kobe wasn't "da man" in la and the ur bringing up now is complely irrelevent to my point.Kobe didn't even START for his teams the first two years in the league. James would have been the best player on the Cavs if they would have drafted him a full 365 days before they did, when LeBron was a Junior in high school. Kobe averaged 7.6 PPG in his first year in the league. Oh man, you're right. He was SO dominant!
Where is Kobe's WCF appearance? 2nd round?
Oh, right. The Lakers can't get out of the first round. But LeBron took his " ty cast" to the Finals.
Thanks for backing up my argument.
I will say something in kobe's defense:
kobe came into the league when the success of the transition of highschool players into NBA was almost unheard of, extremely rare.
guys like him, tmac, KG, and Jermain o'neal to a lesser extent, with their great success, have really changed everybody's preconcieved notions and at udes about the players jumping from highschool to the nba. w/o their success maybe Lebron doesn't break the record. their success raised the confidence of coaches and gm's around the league in future 18 year olds and as a consequence a guy like lebron isn't chained to the bench his first year/two years but given an almost immediate, if not immediate, oppurtunity to showcase his skills.
I can't help but boggle at this statement.
You cannot be a great shooter if you take a ton of horrible, contested, ill-timed, off-balance shots. They counteract each other. That's like calling a baseball player a great hitter because he hits 50 home runs a year, but bats .228 and strikes out 160 times a season. Forgive the cross-sports analogy, but if you take idiotic shots ALL THE TIME, you are not a great shooter. You are a player with a great -shot-, who has the POTENTIAL to be a great shooter, but it doesn't matter in the end, because Kobe is shooting under 45% and under 33% from three this season.
The net doesn't care if you shot it from half-court or from one toe or you were hanging upside down when you shot. If you miss a lot (read: large percentage) of shots, you cannot be a good shooter. Period.
You stated that Kobe could have done what LeBron did. I pointed out that he was a bench warming role player, at best, his first year in the league.
LeBron James was the most hyped athlete in the history of United States sports. While I see your point, and agree that the hype might not have been quite so high without Kobe and KG (who is mostly responsible for the high-school hype), but that said, there aren't too many 6'8" 245 lb 17 year olds who can run point. He would have been huge either way. In fact, he might have had BETTER numbers without all that hype, because teams would have underestimated him, instead of immediately saying, "Ok, this guy is the next MJ-level player, we have to shut him down."I will say something in kobe's defense:
kobe came into the league when the success of the transition of highschool players into NBA was almost unheard of, extremely rare.
guys like him, tmac, KG, and Jermain o'neal to a lesser extent, with their great success, have really changed everybody's preconcieved notions and at udes about the players jumping from highschool to the nba. w/o their success maybe Lebron doesn't break the record. their success raised the confidence of coaches and gm's around the league in future 18 year olds and as a consequence a guy like lebron isn't chained to the bench his first year/two years but given an almost immediate, if not immediate, oppurtunity to showcase his skills.
so Shaq is a great shooter?
i was gearing my argument more toward the effects of the hype and way we value highschool players now and how all that would change the kobe's numbers his first two years in the league moreso than the lack of all that and how it would affect lebronzes numbers if he came out back then (when there is was less value placed on 18 year olds)LeBron James was the most hyped athlete in the history of United States sports. While I see your point, and agree that the hype might not have been quite so high without Kobe and KG (who is mostly responsible for the high-school hype), but that said, there aren't too many 6'8" 245 lb 17 year olds who can run point. He would have been huge either way. In fact, he might have had BETTER numbers without all that hype, because teams would have underestimated him, instead of immediately saying, "Ok, this guy is the next MJ-level player, we have to shut him down."
and a more proper baseball analogy is a guy that hits .300 with 50 homers but strikes out 150+ times a year. Just because he doesn't judge pitches well doesn't mean he can't hit.
let's introduce everyone to the best shooter in the league this year. after all, he leads the league in FG%.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=2427
That's right, it's that deadeye marksman Andris Biedrins. What a shooter!
no. someone who takes ill advised shots is not a bad shooter, just someone who has bad shot selection.
for instance, if one player took half of his hots from behind half-court and altogether shot 25 percent and another player shot normal shots and hit 50 percent would the former be worse at shooting?
No, thats not the same thing. You can be a bad shooter and shoot a high percentage. You cannot be an awesome shooter who shoots a low percentage consistently over the course of a career. Bad seasons are fine. Repeated seasons of under 45% is not, when you are talking about GREAT shooting.
And having said that, Shaq is pretty smart with his shot selection. You don't see him bombing away from 35 feet as hes falling out of bounds.
Wow, really? So shot selection doesn't matter then? That's strange. I always thought a quality of a GOOD SHOOTER was someone who knew when to take the shot and what was beyond his capabilities. Silly me! I was associating making a lot of attempted shots with good shooting, when in reality it's just the potential you have, and not what you actually do on the court that matters! In that stead, the Spurs should trade for JJ Re , since he can hit shots from 29 feet out at about 30%.no. someone who takes ill advised shots is not a bad shooter, just someone who has bad shot selection.
Hmm. I don't know, who would you rather have on your team? I'm sure the Suns fans would want the former.... he'd be great for ratings.for instance, if one player took half of his hots from behind half-court and altogether shot 25 percent and another player shot normal shots and hit 50 percent would the former be worse at shooting?
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 12-19-2007 at 08:35 PM.
we'll agree to disagree then since ur definition of a good shooter conflicts with mine.Wow, really? So shot selection doesn't matter then? That's strange. I always thought a quality of a GOOD SHOOTER was someone who knew when to take the shot and what was beyond his capabilities. Silly me! I was associating making a lot of attempted shots with good shooting, when in reality it's just the potential you have, and not what you actually do on the court that matters! In that stead, the Spurs should trade for JJ Re , since he can hit shots from 29 feet out at about 30%.
a good shooter knows how to shoot not when to shoot necessarily imo
i've never heard of anyone say anything different
no, that's a SMART SHOOTER, not a GOOD SHOOTER. Kobe is a good shooter. He is not a smart shooter.
Kobe can make it from anywhere within reason on the court, just as well as Dirk, Redd, Ray Allen, etc, which means he is JUST AS GOOD A SHOOTER AS THEM, but he doesn't take SMART SHOTS which means he's NOT AS SMART A SHOOTER AS THEM.
Okay then, but since he takes asinine shots, and LeBron takes fewer crazy ones, it means LeBron is an overall BETTER shooter than Kobe, because he's SMARTER. And he makes more of his shots. If you make 80% of the shots in your range, but have a poor shooting percentage because you throw up you shouldn't, it's wasting that 80%, therefore it might as well not exist.
no. Kobe is a far better shooter than LeBron. far far far far far better shooter. LeBron gets alot of his points close to the basket like Shaq. He is an okay shooter and he is a far far far far far smarter shooter than Kobe.
Like I said, Kobe would beat LeBron in HORSE 100 times out of 100. But the NBA isn't HORSE, which is why, even tho Kobe is a better shooter, I'll take LeBron any day over him.
lol..i guess centers in the league are the best "shooters"
How about this... we can all agree at least that whether you think taking smart shots means you are a good shooter or not, Kobe has great shooting ABILITY. I think that would be a better choice of words to use. Kobe is not a smart shooter at all, but he has outrageous shooting abilities, up there with the best shooters in the league.
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