Rangers Trade for Josh Hamilton

[FirebatMIV]

Hrmm, I don't think too many people would put Cincy's system ahead of the Dodgers.

LA can match the Reds at the top and have much better depth. Nothing against Stubbs, but you see a drop-off after the top 4 in the Reds' system.

Umm, yes they would. With the exception of Clayton Kershaw, there's not much too love about the Dodgers. Scott Elbert got hurt, Delwyn Young seems permenantly blocked, Andy LaRoche apparently has a nagging back injury, and they've already graduated the majority of their best players like Billingsby, Kemp and Lonely. There's not much left in the Dodgers minor league system, and I think you're either underselling the Bruce-Bailey-Cueto-Votto 4 some or you're giving edge to the Dodgers because their minor league system WAS great two years ago. There's really not much to like there now.

In fact, I'd ranked the Red Sox and the Rangers above the Dodgers now too. Both systems have more depth, and have more impact talent in the minor levels. If pressed, I'd probably rank the minor leage systems Rays-Reds-Red Sox-Rangers-Dodgers, with the Rockies coming in at a very close 6th.


Timvp - Out of the Rangers current lineup, who do you think is a threat to hit 30 HRs this year? Blalock - if he comes back completely healthy and that's it. The Rangers have no "other bats" and their best hitter is a 24 year old 2B with decent power, but certainly not a middle-of-the-order guy. Hamilton is a threat to hit 30 HRs a year right now while playing centerfield (and a good one, he graded out better than Aaron Rowand last year). That's a very valuable commodity.

You don't trade based on false, historical notions of need, you trade to get the best player. In this case, the Rangers not only got the best player, but they addressed a fatal flaw on their roster (CF and middle-of-the-order bat) while not having to give up one of their own top prospects. That's how great baseball GMs (Schuerholz, Beane et all) work.

[FirebatMIV]

Didn't Volquez have a sub two ERA in AAA last season? I'll admit to not following the Dallas Rangers minor leagues closely but I am pretty damn sure he was good in OKC last year. Plus he's Dominican which means he'll be a stud.

Either way, you don't trade a top pitching prospect for yet another bat. Especially a bat that is attached to a guy who is both injury prone and drug prone. Pitching has always been the Rangers problem. When is the last time they were in the top half of the league in ERA? 1990?

He also had a 7 ERA in A+ Bakersfield last season, and the problem with the walks still remain. That and it was his 3rd time at AAA in the last three years. You have to take both age and peripherals into account. Edinson has a great K rate and a good HR/9, but depending on a 24 year old to suddenly figure out his historically bad control seems very risky.

The last time the Rangers finished in the top half of the league in ERA was 2004, but their bullpen have always been top 5 for the last 2 years. They also already have 4 of their rotation spots filled up (Millwood-Padilla-McCarthy-Gabbard), and their upper minor league depth is good enough where they won't be hurting for arms if someone (inevitably) is lost to injury for any amount of time. They'll probably bring in a veteran to compete for a spot with the young players, and I'm really not sure how much worse their rotation is with Luis Mendoza or Freddy Garcia in it vs. it would be if it had Edinson Volquez. There's not much drop off in the major league roster post trade.

[K-State Spur]

Kershaw will likely be the top lefthanded prospect in all of baseball next spring.

Laroche does have the back problem, but he absolutely raked at AAA last year. (his back does raise a red flag, but so does Homer Bailey's statements that he is disinterested in baseball - one of the reasons I like Cueto more).

Chin Lung Hu is one of the top SS prospects in baseball. And maybe the only one of the group who will actually play SS in the big leagues.

I actually like James McDonald the best of the rest of their arms. That BA ranks him 8th or 9th in their system is a testament to the depth that they still have.

We'll see how the spring rankings come out - maybe i'm way off on this.

[Melmart1]

Didn't Volquez have a sub two ERA in AAA last season? I'll admit to not following the Dallas Rangers minor leagues closely but I am pretty damn sure he was good in OKC last year. Plus he's Dominican which means he'll be a stud.

Either way, you don't trade a top pitching prospect for yet another bat. Especially a bat that is attached to a guy who is both injury prone and drug prone. Pitching has always been the Rangers problem. When is the last time they were in the top half of the league in ERA? 1990?

"YET ANOTHER BAT"



Ohhhh, my. You not only don't pay attention to the farm, you obviously don't pay attention to the Rangers, either. THe last time the Rangers had decent power numbers was the fluke season in 2004. Michael Young hits singles now, his power seems to have gone. Teixeira is gone. Hank Blalock is a big question mark after his recovery. Our outfield (before Hamilton) was pretty much a joke.

The Rangers haven't hit the way that people seem to think they have in three years. They severely needed a bat in the middle of the lineup and + defense at CF. Those were the two biggest needs (yes, BEFORE pitching) and they got them both in one guy.

It's amazing the common misconceptions about the Rangers. I wish more people would stop letting Mavfan dictate who they cheer for and instead become a fan.

[FirebatMIV]

Kershaw will likely be the top lefthanded prospect in all of baseball next spring.

Laroche does have the back problem, but he absolutely raked at AAA last year. (his back does raise a red flag, but so does Homer Bailey's statements that he is disinterested in baseball - one of the reasons I like Cueto more).

Chin Lung Hu is one of the top SS prospects in baseball. And maybe the only one of the group who will actually play SS in the big leagues.

I actually like James McDonald the best of the rest of their arms. That BA ranks him 8th or 9th in their system is a testament to the depth that they still have.

We'll see how the spring rankings come out - maybe i'm way off on this.

McDonald is a 23 year old that just reached AA, if this was 2 years ago, he wouldn't be in the conversation. Heck, put his name in the Rangers or Red Sox systems, and I'm not sure he'd be a top 10.

As I said, they still have some decent prospects, but none of them save Kershaw is that really big head-liner prospect that they used to have. They also really have no depth, or at least, the depth that Tampa, Texas and Boston has. When you take that + the fact that their top 4 is nowhere close to the top 4 of the Reds, I don't see how you can say that their system is better.

[TheTruth]

Danny Dorn

[timvp]

"YET ANOTHER BAT"

Did you miss the part of my post where I was talking about the Rangers in historic terms? Check the same paragraph where I'm talking about "always" and the Rangers' team of 1990. Does it look like I was speaking of the Rangers of last year?

Ohhhh, my. You not only don't pay attention to the farm, you obviously don't pay attention to the Rangers, either. THe last time the Rangers had decent power numbers was the fluke season in 2004.

Uhhhhh even though I wasn't talking about last season you do realize that only three teams in the AL had more homeruns than the Rangers, right? How the is finishing fourth in the AL in homeruns "not decent power numbers". Plus top five in the AL in runs. You really think batting was the reason the Rangers sucked again? Cleveland scored less runs than the Rangers and they were a choke away from winning the World Series.

And that 2004 squad you speak so highly of scored a whopping .2 more runs per game than last year's team.

The Rangers haven't hit the way that people seem to think they have in three years. They severely needed a bat in the middle of the lineup and + defense at CF. Those were the two biggest needs (yes, BEFORE pitching) and they got them both in one guy.

No way. Pitching has been and still is need number one for the Rangers. Are you kidding me? When Kevin freakin' Millwood is the ace of your staff, pitching -- specifically starting pitching is your biggest need. There's a good chance that every member of the staff will finish with an ERA north of 5. And for some of the pitchers, even an era of 5.00 will be a vast improvement.

It's pretty crazy to me that a Ranger Fan can say that starting pitching isn't the team's number one need. They were faaaaar and away last in the AL in starting pitching ERA. Not to mention last in wins and fewest innings pitched, which might actually be the most damning stat of all. And you want to tell me that getting CF is a bigger need than starting pitching? Really?

Volquez is far from a sure bet but he has a live arm and could still develop into a decent starter. I don't think he's the second coming but I do think he could develop into a player that fits a need.

You can always trade for a bat or pickup some scrub to man center like they did with Otis Nixon or Cecil Espy or Gary Matthews. However, good pitching isn't as easy to find and the Rangers are going to continue to suck until they get a real starting rotation.

It's amazing the common misconceptions about the Rangers. I wish more people would stop letting Mavfan dictate who they cheer for and instead become a fan.

I used to like the Rangers until the internet came around and their forums were filled with a bunch of delusional fans. I didn't have a name for them back then but yeah now that I think of it they do act like Mav Fan. I remember being pissed about the Chris Carpenter trade because I though Robb Nen had potential. Ranger Fan of course bashed Nen calling him an old prospect with control problems he wouldn't be able to ever fix due to his advanced age. Sound familiar?

I mean damn how long can one franchise have the same flaw and all their fans be blind to it? They finish top five in runs with the worst starting pitching and then their fans are rubbing one out to a trade in which they trade a young starting pitching prospect for an injury prone, reformed crackhead who is obviously being sold high by a franchise who would have found room for the fan favorite if they thought his longterm potential was half as good as Ranger/Mav Fan thinks it is.

[BeerIsGood!]

I agree with you that trading pitching for a crackhead wasn't the best thing to do, but did you just say that dumbass fans on the Internet are the reason you quit being a fan? No offense, but that's pretty weak. How long before SpursDynasty drives you to becoming a Pistonfan?

[timvp]

I agree with you that trading pitching for a crackhead wasn't the best thing to do, but did you just say that dumbass fans on the Internet are the reason you quit being a fan? No offense, but that's pretty weak. How long before SpursDynasty drives you to becoming a Pistonfan?

I said I liked the Rangers but I was never a true fan. I liked them mostly because they were on TV a lot.

I grew disenfranchised by the Rangers due to a lack of lack of direction, lack of common sense, lack of a good fan base and lack of direction. The mid-90's Rangers were even dumber than they are now, if that's humanly possible.

[dallaskd]

Nice! best of luck to edinson. i think the dfw media put a little to much pressure on him early.

[dallaskd]

No update if they've reached a deal with Eddie Guardado yet?

[Melmart1]

If you want to talk last season, fine. Let's talk about it.

The Rangers were a completely snakebitten team. Everytime they started to get it together, a key player was injured and it completely threw them out of sync. A good majority of those injuries were starting pitching. We have no idea how good this team could be if thier rotation were relatively healthy for a year. Yeah, they won't be lights-out or have a legit 'ace' but I think they are better than most might imagine.

As for the offense, it was completely inconsistent all year. There was generally one hot bat holding the team together and a lot of slumping. This is why I say they haven't hit. Ian Kinsler was a madman at the beginning of the season. Then it was Marlon Byrd. Then it was Tex right before his injury. Problem is, nobody else was hitting while these guys were. Catalonatto, Young, Cruz, Botts, Wilkerson, Vazquez and particularly Laird all sucked it up either the entire season or more than half. The stats don't tell the whole story.

What they lacked all year was a consistent bat to anchor the offense. Hamilton serves that role. He also is a CF, which means no more Kenny Lofton-like stopgaps for the next four years until Julio Bourbon or Engel Beltre who are both just kids (literally with 17 yr old Beltre) are ready.

CF is arguably the most important defensive posistion on the field. Singles turn into doubles and triples and a whole lot of RBIs if your CF sucks. The cards are already stacked against your pitchers because of the ballpark itself. You don't need to exacerbate the situation by having a crappy defensive outfield.

When you make a trade for a glaring need like CF, you do so from a strength of position. Young prospect pitchers is a position of strength in the system, arguably the biggest strength. Center Field is not. The big talent at CF is in the rookie or low-A short season level right now. They won't be ready for at least four years. In those same four years, you can make a case for any of a dozen good arms (several with as much or more potential as Volquez) being ready.

Hamilton is cheap and under Rangers control for five years. he has proven that he can hack at the major league level, something that Volquez has failed to do. Considering that CF is more of an issue than pitching right now, you do this trade. Is it a risk? Absolutely. But like I said before, you are trading one question mark for another that has the potential to be win-win.

[Melmart1]

I mean damn how long can one franchise have the same flaw and all their fans be blind to it? They finish top five in runs with the worst starting pitching and then their fans are rubbing one out to a trade in which they trade a young starting pitching prospect for an injury prone, reformed crackhead who is obviously being sold high by a franchise who would have found room for the fan favorite if they thought his longterm potential was half as good as Ranger/Mav Fan thinks it is.

I take great offense to this. If you bothered to come in here and read my takes on the Rangers more often, you will see that I am hardly blind to their flaws. Which is exactly why I know CF has been a fatal flaw for many years now.

And what fans are rubbing one out? I am happy we have a potential stud CF for the first time in ages but I am hardly orgasmic over it. I am surprised but pleased they took the risk and though I am sorry to see Volquez go if the franchise is going to turn itself around risks like these are necessary.

And how can the Reds have "found room" for Hamilton when they have the absolute best CF prospect in all of baseball ready to go? With a guy like Bruce waiting in the wings, he is your everyday guy. You don't "find room" to do anything with any other player. You get what you can for that player and you play Bruce. This is a no-brainer. So Cincy has a CF to spare and the Rangers have a young pitching prospect to spare. You trade from a posistion of strength to acquire a fix for a position of weakness. This is what they both did. Its text book.

[TheTruth]

Jay Bruce is projected to be a corner outfielder.

And to think that ANY team has young pitching prospects to spare is laughable. How is the Rangers pitching staff a position of strength?

[Melmart1]

Jay Bruce is projected to be a corner outfielder.

And to think that ANY team has young pitching prospects to spare is laughable. How is the Rangers pitching staff a position of strength?

There are a lot of prospects in the Rangers system that can be as good as Volquez. The problem is, they are all prospects, which is still what Volquez is. Considering there is nobody at CF who is even close to being ready for the majors, you do what you can to get that position filled.

Hamilton has at least proved he can play in the majors, something Volquez has not. That is the problem with prospects, they don't always pan out. This was a risky move but you have to do it to fill a spot that can not be continued to be filled with stopgaps.

[Melmart1]

Here, Keith Law said it better than I did. Maybe you will understand him better than you did me:

There's some risk involved, but there's a very good chance the Rangers just picked up a middle-of-the-order bat who's about to enter his prime years in exchange for a hard-throwing young pitcher with more risks around his future.
* * *

The Rangers' system is full of pitching prospects, and they have a good number of infield and catching prospects, but they're light in the outfield, with 2007 draftee Julio Borbon probably the best of that group. Josh Hamilton immediately becomes the best centerfielder the Rangers have had in a decade -- all apologies to Laynce Nix, Tom Goodwin, and Damon Buford -- and has a good chance to be the best hitter in the Rangers' 2008 lineup.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...me%3dlaw_keith

[TheTruth]

Here, Keith Law said it better than I did. Maybe you will understand him better than you did me:



http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog...me%3dlaw_keith

Keith Law is terrible.

[Melmart1]

Keith Law is terrible.

No matter what you think about him in general, he is dead on about the Rangers' system. I agree with him completely except on one point -- I think Engel Beltre is a better prospect than Bourbon, but only because he has a higher cieling. Still way too rough around the edges to be completely sure though.

Either way, I am not ing over this trade and I think its a risk. But we can't keep plugging up holes in the outfield with geriatrics or journeymen. I don't necessarily like giving away Volquez but its a calculated risk that I think will pay off well for the Rangers.

I don't like getting into pissing contests so I am done. I obviously won't convince any of you of my side, and that is fine. But I genuinely hope this is win-win for both sides, which it has the potential to be.

[TheTruth]

I'm just not one to advocate trading away young (potentially top line) pitchers for anything but a sure thing. Prospects are at a premium right now, and the Rangers made a questionable trade.

As a Reds fan, I really hate to see Hamilton leave. He was a great great story, and he has 40 hr potential. But the guy's body has been ravaged by drugs, and he gets hurt a lot. His addiction keeps him from taking any pain pills. Just not a recipe for success. I hope he reaches his potential and tears the league up.

[timvp]

If you want to talk last season, fine. Let's talk about it.

The Rangers were a completely snakebitten team. Everytime they started to get it together, a key player was injured and it completely threw them out of sync. A good majority of those injuries were starting pitching. We have no idea how good this team could be if thier rotation were relatively healthy for a year. Yeah, they won't be lights-out or have a legit 'ace' but I think they are better than most might imagine.

The problem with the starting pitching is that the starting pitchers suck. I mean Millwood is a decent workhorse as a third or fourth starter but when he's your ace, there's some major problems. Padilla sucked last year and no way he should be a team's second starter. McCarthy and Gabbard are pretty good up-and-comers but it's not like there's a guarantee either one or both will succeed. As it stands, the Rangers probably have the weakest staff in the AL ... yet again.

As for the offense, it was completely inconsistent all year. There was generally one hot bat holding the team together and a lot of slumping. This is why I say they haven't hit. Ian Kinsler was a madman at the beginning of the season. Then it was Marlon Byrd. Then it was Tex right before his injury. Problem is, nobody else was hitting while these guys were. Catalonatto, Young, Cruz, Botts, Wilkerson, Vazquez and particularly Laird all sucked it up either the entire season or more than half. The stats don't tell the whole story.

So a "completely inconsistent" offense ranked fourth in homeruns in and fifth in scoring? It sounds like with a little bit of consistency they'd be pretty damn well off.

Like I said, hitting has rarely been a problem with the Rangers. You completely scoffed me about "YET ANOTHER BAT" and it turns out that the Rangers were one of the better offensive teams in the AL. With the way you reacted you would have thought I was speaking about the Royals.

But that's just it. Ranger Fan is used to scoring runs. Finishing fifth in runs is nothing for a Ranger Fan. If pitching didn't exist, the Rangers would have rings galore.

In the last 30 years, the Rangers have finished in the top half of the AL in ERA probably only a handful of times. I'd bet they haven't finished in the top half of baseball in ERA in over 15 years.

When it comes to homeruns, the Rangers have led all of baseball this decade in homeruns in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2005. How did having YET ANOTHER BATs help them those years? The answer is they didn't even crack .500 in any of those years.

So another year comes, the Rangers suck again and what's the answer? Ah, yes, obviously it's the need of a bat. Who cares about a pitching prospect? What the is pitching anyways? We needs some mo' homers. This formula has worked so well before . . .

What they lacked all year was a consistent bat to anchor the offense. Hamilton serves that role. He also is a CF, which means no more Kenny Lofton-like stopgaps for the next four years until Julio Bourbon or Engel Beltre who are both just kids (literally with 17 yr old Beltre) are ready.

An offense which admittedly underperformed and still finished fifth in runs needs anchoring?

CF is arguably the most important defensive posistion on the field. Singles turn into doubles and triples and a whole lot of RBIs if your CF sucks. The cards are already stacked against your pitchers because of the ballpark itself. You don't need to exacerbate the situation by having a crappy defensive outfield.

You almost hit on the Ranger take I hate the most: "Well we play in a hitters park so who cares about pitching we might as well just try to out-slug everybody". That is like the Ranger Fan official mantra. The thing is it simply doesn't work. Look at the World Series teams this year. Boston and Colorado play in two of the most hitting friendly ballparks in all of baseball. Both have always traditionally been good offensive teams. However, it wasn't until both teams concentrated on stockpiling starting pitching did they start winning games. Instead of pulling the classic Ranger "woe is me we play in a hitters ballpark" BS they concentrated on pitching and it wasn't until their pitching turned around that either team ever did anything.

Oh and Josh Hamilton isn't a very good fielder at all. As a CF he's below average. Good arm but he doesn't have that much range. He's really more of a RF because his range won't be as much of a factor, you can keep him healthier and his arm could be more of a factor.

When you make a trade for a glaring need like CF, you do so from a strength of position. Young prospect pitchers is a position of strength in the system, arguably the biggest strength. Center Field is not. The big talent at CF is in the rookie or low-A short season level right now. They won't be ready for at least four years. In those same four years, you can make a case for any of a dozen good arms (several with as much or more potential as Volquez) being ready.

The Rangers have claimed to have great starting pitching prospects for the last three decades. I'll believe when I see it. And there's no such thing as having too much starting pitching talent in the pipeline. Especially when you are the Rangers and your starting pitching always sucks year in and year out. The first step is to actually field a halfway competent pitching staff and maybe THEN you can start trading away prospects to fill other gaps. But until then, the Rangers are still the Rangers. You don't post a near 6.00 starting pitching ERA one season and then begin trading away starting pitching the next offseason because it's suddenly a strength

Hamilton is cheap and under Rangers control for five years. he has proven that he can hack at the major league level, something that Volquez has failed to do. Considering that CF is more of an issue than pitching right now, you do this trade. Is it a risk? Absolutely. But like I said before, you are trading one question mark for another that has the potential to be win-win.

@ trading for a RF to play CF is more of a need than starting pitching.

I take great offense to this. If you bothered to come in here and read my takes on the Rangers more often, you will see that I am hardly blind to their flaws. Which is exactly why I know CF has been a fatal flaw for many years now.

I didn't say you were blind to their flaws. I'm talking about Ranger Fan as a nation. Ranger Fan always thinks the next bat is the bat that is going to put them over the top.

And saying that CF has been a fatal flaw is being a bit dramatic. It's not like CF has kept the Rangers from winning. Heck, the Red Sox last year would have loved to have gotten the production the Rangers got out of CF. Their fatal flaw wasn't exactly fatal.

And what fans are rubbing one out? I am happy we have a potential stud CF for the first time in ages but I am hardly orgasmic over it. I am surprised but pleased they took the risk and though I am sorry to see Volquez go if the franchise is going to turn itself around risks like these are necessary.

I still read over a couple Ranger forums now and again and I saw them celebrating this trade. I actually came in the baseball forum to post about it when I saw this thread. Again, "rubbing one out" wasn't directed at you. Can females really rub one out?

And how can the Reds have "found room" for Hamilton when they have the absolute best CF prospect in all of baseball ready to go? With a guy like Bruce waiting in the wings, he is your everyday guy. You don't "find room" to do anything with any other player. You get what you can for that player and you play Bruce. This is a no-brainer. So Cincy has a CF to spare and the Rangers have a young pitching prospect to spare. You trade from a posistion of strength to acquire a fix for a position of weakness. This is what they both did. Its text book.

If the Reds thought that Hamilton was the stud that Ranger Fan thinks he is, the Reds could have easily traded someone like Griffey to make room. Hamilton was a fan favorite, cheap and was a former number one overall pick. This doesn't strike you as the ultimate sell high? You don't want to take another look at this gift horse?

Like I said, the Reds could have made room. It not only would have made financial sense, it would have made baseball sense.

This was a risky move but you have to do it to fill a spot that can not be continued to be filled with stopgaps.

Why not? World Series champions are littered with teams with stopgap CF's. CF might actually be the easiest position to find a stopgap for.

There are a lot of prospects in the Rangers system that can be as good as Volquez. The problem is, they are all prospects, which is still what Volquez is. Considering there is nobody at CF who is even close to being ready for the majors, you do what you can to get that position filled.

Hamilton has at least proved he can play in the majors, something Volquez has not. That is the problem with prospects, they don't always pan out.

Exactly. That's why you don't start thinning your crop of starting pitching prospects before you actually have halfway decent starting pitching. You especially don't do it when you have far and away the worst starting rotation ERA in the bigs.

Pitching wins. Real pitching. Not "we have some great arms in the minors" pitching. I've heard that for the last twenty years from the Rangers and their fans. I don't care who you have in the minor leagues, starting pitching isn't a strength to deal from when you are coming off of a season in which your team had the worst starting pitching in all of baseball.

I guess we'll see if the Rangers ever get a clue on how to ever build a winning team. To me it looks like they are clueless as ever.

[T Park]

After watching Hamilton play the Cardinals alot hes the protypical Ranger player.

Good power, good hitter, decent to bad fielder.

Trading pitching for him continues the time honored stupid tradition.

Till the Rangers from the top down learn

Pitching = winning

not offfense,

they will continue to flounder and be stiffs.

[FirebatMIV]

QUick things

1)Josh Hamilton graded out as an well above-average center fielder last year, better than Aaron Rowand, Torii Hunter, Vernon Wells, and right on par with guys like Grady Sizemore. He's not Coco Crisp, but he is FAR from a bad fielder. He had a good runs avoided, good zone rating, good range factor and good rate2 stats. So if you want to claim that he is a bad fielder TImvp, please put a link up to something that shows he's a bad fielder. The only reason Hamilton would ever play corner OF is because of health concerns, not because he is unable to handle the position.


2) The Rangers are an average offensive team, at least they were last year. Keep in mind, though, that they'll lose a lot of power with the departure of Sosa and Wilkerson, as well as the absence of Teixeira wholesale. Also, if you look at the Rangers home-road splits, you'll see the problem. The Rangers are incredibly bolstered by a home park that inflates HR 24% last year. Even then, they were solely middle of the pack in slg, HR, and one of the last in the league in on-base-percentage. When we take their road numbers only, they are among the last in the AL. The reason for their high # of runs last year was because of one big anomoly of a game (30-3 vs. Baltimore) and comparative luck in hitting with runners in scoring position. Those aren't sustainable types of offense, so when you have the opportunity to add a guy that provides both power and OBP, while playing above average defense in a position where you almost never get offense, it is a no brainer.

3) I'm amazed at the idea that Edinson Volquez would have suddenly brough stability to the rotation. As I said, I don't see much of a performance drop off between Volquez and Mendoza, and probably lesser performance relative to a guy like Freddy Garcia (if healthy), so I'm not really sure how your argument that the Rangers have a bad rotation have any merit. Here's the thing about this trade: the Rangers traded someone imminently replacable by both internal sources (your Mendozas, Gallaraggas, and, perhaps, top prospects like Matt Harrison and Eric Hurley) and external sources (Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, Jason Jennings, etc), for someone who has no equal value on the free agent market. I think, if Hamilton stays healthy (and that's quite an if), he will be the best centerfielder, and perhaps the best position player to change teams this winter. That's why the trade was good value, because you deal from a position of strength in order to meet two positions of weakness. In doing so, you also got the player with the highest current level of performance, the highest potential and most likely to reach that potential. THat's why it's a good trade. And let's face it, if Hamilton didn't have the spectre of the drug issue, everyone would be estatic with the trade. Of course, if he didn't have that spectre, he would have required a Mark Teixeira package.


4) THe Rob Nenn trade occured in 1993, I wasn't aware there were big numbers of Rangers web communities at the time, but I'm sure if there were, they would have long since died.

Both Melmart and I frequent lonestarball, which is the best site for genuine Rangers coverage on the web (it's also frequented by players like CJ Wilson, Brandon McCarthy, as well as analysts like John Sickles, John Dewon and Keith Law). There's also a source for Rangers minor league news in the for of the Newberg Report. So yeah, there are geniunely good Rangers communities on the web, so that idea that all Rangers fans are idiots have as much merit as claims saying all Spurs fans are represented by Spurs_Dynasty_21.

[dallaskd]

just owned the out of this thread

[monosylab1k]

The Rangers put up the most empty scoring numbers there are. They're the kings of getting shut out for 6 innings, falling behind 9-0, then scoring 6 runs against ty bullpen pitchers to look like they have decent offensive output.

Anybody who says the Rangers have been a good offensive team since Juan Gonzalez finished his first stint with the team probably hasn't watched the Rangers since....well, since Juan Gonzalez finished his first stint with the team. Pointing to their rankings doesn't tell the story when you see this team 100+ times every year.

If Hamilton can stay healthy & keep his on-base percentage in line with what he did last year, this is a great deal. Volquez has incredible "stuff" but he doesn't have the command to ever be successful, especially in Arlington.

[sribb43]

Volquez played well the last 2 months of the season and was finally showing what he could do....can Hamilton pitch as well? didnt think so