Compressed Air Car

[Wild Cobra]

Say what you will Boutons. To solve the structural integrity problems to hold such pressures, you defeat the ability of the vehicle to get great mileage per dollar, or you going to build it all out of some super anium alloy?

Let other countries have such a vehicle. We have certain safety standards here in the USA that must be met. People complain about out mileage standards, but they are in compromise with safety standards. To increase on is to decrease another without some serious breakthrough that simply cannot be legislated.

Here is a synopsis of th Mythbusters episode:

Can a cracked valve on a compressed-air cylinder actually blast the tank right through a cinder-block wall? Could the Mythbusters get a speedboat to run on air cylinders, and could the build team get an engine running on gunpowder?

The tank they were using went through the wall, and the went partway into the bunker wall, making a large dent.

Air Cylinder Rocket Episode Number: 75 Season Num: 4 First Aired: Wednesday October 18, 2006

Oh... almost forgot. An explosion does not have to be a fuel/oxidizer mix. Definition:

explosion (plural explosions)

1. A violent release of energy (sometimes mechanical, nuclear, or chemical.)
2. A bursting due to pressure.
3. The sound of an explosion.
4. A sudden increase.
5. A sudden outburst.

[Slomo]

Actually it is almost impossible to make an air cylinder explode. WC you are citing the mythbusters, who proved exactly that. They had to strap explosive (or do something else similarly extreme) to a scuba tank for it to "explode" (after shooting at it with all sorts of guns). All do ented explosion of air tanks were the result of faulty/damaged tanks that were not maintained/inspected properly.

If you knock off the valve of a loose tank, that tank will fly around. On the other hand if the tank is safely strapped to something heavy (a car?) the most danger is actually for your eardrums (very loud hissing).

Look at the amount of scuba tanks around the world and then look at how many of those exploded - it's a pretty good indication of how safe air tanks are.

Personally I'm not convinced that compressed air cars are the future of automotion, but at least let's keep the exploding tank argument out of it. A tank full of flammable liquid is much more dangerous (and we also know from experience that explosions or even fires are not that common).

For the record, steel Scuba tanks are filled to 4400 PSI (not in the US though).

[Slomo]

Let other countries have such a vehicle. We have certain safety standards here in the USA that must be met. People complain about out mileage standards, but they are in compromise with safety standards. To increase on is to decrease another without some serious breakthrough that simply cannot be legislated.

I'm not that familiar with US car safety standards, but if I remember correctly they are not as high as in Europe (definitely not higher).

[Slomo]

I don't remember the air rocket episode. But here's a question: Was the cylinder allowed to gather momentum or was it set against the wall when the valve was sheared off?

Because without the momentum, it is impossible for it to go through a proper wall.

Edit: WC check the "Jaws" episode, where they tried to make the cylinder explode (like in the movie).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So you retrogressives kill this car because of the "pressure" problem? The pressure problem, if it even exists, is insoluble by the most advanced technology culture in the history of the universe?

What ballsy, courageous, innnovative at ude. Macho Men showing their true chicken nature.

As the drunk, infantile red-neck demonstrated, a hole in a compressed tank ONLY causes the tank to decompress, NOT to explode, since there is no explosive or fuel involved.

Compared to highly flammable, explosive gasoline, a problem that remains UNSOLVED in current vehicules, compressed air is an extremely safe choice for storing energy.

So the US should never try to fix its own foreign oil dependence, nor reduce greenhouse gases, simply because China isn't? great logic masquerading as a pre-text to "conserve" do nothing. Since when does the USA let China set the example?

You're right, why should science and reality get in the way of your little vaginal fest? Carry on, .

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Slomo,

Check out what a cylinder going off in a car does:

http://www.thescubaguide.com/gear/tanks/safety.aspx

I'm envisioning a scenario where an accident shears the tank loose with some other piece of the vehicle still attached to it. Then you've got a projectile bouncing around.

Outside of the safety problem, the compressed air car has a bigger problem - how do you generate the necessary air and transfer it to the vehicle in a cost effective manner?

I teach scuba diving, and maintaining the compressor is a . And it sucks down a lot of electricity, and the gas powered ones are even worse. But I don't know why I'm worrying about like that, croutons says we don't have to take that part of the equation into account.

I guess he's planning on free energy or some sort of perpetual motion compression machine

[Slomo]

Slomo,

Check out what a cylinder going off in a car does:

http://www.thescubaguide.com/gear/tanks/safety.aspx

I'm envisioning a scenario where an accident shears the tank loose with some other piece of the vehicle still attached to it. Then you've got a projectile bouncing around.

Outside of the safety problem, the compressed air car has a bigger problem - how do you generate the necessary air and transfer it to the vehicle in a cost effective manner?

I teach scuba diving, and maintaining the compressor is a . And it sucks down a lot of electricity, and the gas powered ones are even worse. But I don't know why I'm worrying about like that, croutons says we don't have to take that part of the equation into account.

I guess he's planning on free energy or some sort of perpetual motion compression machine

The energy discussion is a valid one and I'm not touching it. But the exploding tank is not a likely scenario (not more likely than an exploding tank filled with gasoline anyway).

Even in your link the tank didn't really exploded, it ruptured and it did so because it was corroded (a lot I might add - the guy owning it is an idiot). As I said in my other posts this part of the problem (exploding tank) is not difficult to solve.

I know you're an experienced diver (so am I) and we both know there are safety procedure to be obeyed in order to be safe. The same is true for cars.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I know you're an experienced diver (so am I) and we both know there are safety procedure to be obeyed in order to be safe. The same is true for cars.

I agree, unfortunately (at least here in America) you have to design to the lowest common denominator (idiot). I could see people not maintaining them and having corrosion problems, I could also see them getting compromised in nasty wrecks and bouncing around the highway until the energy is dissipated.

The safety concern for me is really secondary to the problem of generating the compressed air for the tanks, because you know the reservoir would be a lot bigger than a typical AL80 or steel 100 scuba tank...

[remingtonbo2001]

I agree, unfortunately (at least here in America) you have to design to the lowest common denominator (idiot). I could see people not maintaining them and having corrosion problems, I could also see them getting compromised in nasty wrecks and bouncing around the highway until the energy is dissipated.

The safety concern for me is really secondary to the problem of generating the compressed air for the tanks, because you know the reservoir would be a lot bigger than a typical AL80 or steel 100 scuba tank...

If Boutons only had a little common sense and a slightly higher IQ then maybe America could've of realized the dream of air compression vehicles stretching from highway to highway.

HOWEVER, I am curious to the results of a collision involving an air compressed vehicle with a gasoline powered vehicle.

Wouldn't that cause a massive explosion?

[boutons_]

Until actual collision experiments are performed on compressed air cars, my thought experiments are in/valid as anybody else's.

The difference is I'm willing to see a new idea attempted, while you right-winger on new ideas.

[xrayzebra]

Here you go, the car of the future. It will work really, really good for boutons, with all his hot air.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Until actual collision experiments are performed on compressed air cars, my thought experiments are in/valid as anybody else's.

The difference is I'm willing to see a new idea attempted, while you right-winger on new ideas.

haven't you heard? oil and gasoline powered vehicles are the wave of the future..

[Slomo]

If Boutons only had a little common sense and a slightly higher IQ then maybe America could've of realized the dream of air compression vehicles stretching from highway to highway.

HOWEVER, I am curious to the results of a collision involving an air compressed vehicle with a gasoline powered vehicle.

Wouldn't that cause a massive explosion?

Do not confuse air and oxygen.

[Nbadan]

haven't you heard? oil and gasoline powered vehicles are the wave of the future..

Yep, a lot of people resisted change from the horse and buggy too...

[remingtonbo2001]

Until actual collision experiments are performed on compressed air cars, my thought experiments are in/valid as anybody else's.

The difference is I'm willing to see a new idea attempted, while you right-winger on new ideas.

I'm glad your so quick to judge.

I'm actually glad they continue to come up with new innovative methods of trasportation. Unfortunately the use of Public Transportation in the U.S is underused and underfunded. This would be an ideal concept for frieght trasportation and mass-trasportation. However, as individual trasportation goes, I doubt it would be very successful.

I wasn't ting on the idea. Just your at ude in general.
So,coming from a conservative/independent, I like this idea.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Until actual collision experiments are performed on compressed air cars, my thought experiments are in/valid as anybody else's.

The difference is I'm willing to see a new idea attempted, while you right-winger on new ideas.

So voicing concern is ting on ideas? You're dumb. I'm all for alternative energy sources - the sooner the better - but I also don't want to have to worry about half of some guy's air powered car coming through my windshield when he gets in a wreck, and I also want someone to explain the gross energy cost associated with generating said compressed air.

If you call that ting on new ideas, go yourself.

[Nbadan]

...not compressed air..but...

[temujin]

By Eurocap crash test standards -which I trust- my little Toyota,

which incidentally looks a LOT like the car in the movie,

has higher standards than ANY US imports.

I don't even have to bring on my Volvo for that.

Just about any problem can be solved.
provided that patents aren't buried in a drawer on purpose.

[Wild Cobra]

...not compressed air..but...

What a waste of viewing time. I didn't get to see it crash...

Those things have so little power. Definitely a different motor, modified. They don't use 4 cylinder engine. I've seen a couple of those here in Portland. How they meet safety standards, I haven't a clue.

Any video of a US standard crash test?

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I did find a few crash tests. The car does have nice survivability, but I'll bet the deceleration G forces border on lethal for us mortals.





Now here's a modified Smart using a Suzuki GSXR 1000 engine at 180 HP racing a Ferrari F430:



The Smart beats the F430 by 0.11 seconds, at 13.29 seconds, but... this was likely a staged win for the smart. The tested ET for a F430 is 11.7 seconds.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If Boutons only had a little common sense and a slightly higher IQ then maybe America could've of realized the dream of air compression vehicles stretching from highway to highway.

HOWEVER, I am curious to the results of a collision involving an air compressed vehicle with a gasoline powered vehicle.

Wouldn't that cause a massive explosion?

I think you're confusing compressed air with pure oxygen. Pure oxygen would suck, you couldn't pay me to drive in a car powered by that.

Compressed air is just the air you and I breathe compressed into a confined space.

[T Park]

So you retrogressives kill this car because of the "pressure" problem?

No we kill it because its the stupidest looking thing known to man.

So the US should never try to fix its own foreign oil dependence, nor reduce greenhouse gases, simply because China isn't?

no.

But enviromentalist whackos like you should step aside and let nuculear power plants get built, and let us drill off the coast of our own country instead of mexico and venezuela and get our own oil.

Radical and crazy I know.

[Phenomanul]

One can compress air into fullerenes, without the pressure problem posing any more safety concern.... Air slowly diffuses out of the molecules (bucky-balls) at controlled rates dictated by the temperature.

The fact of the matter however is that the most effective way of making fullerenes is by using Benzene, a distillate product from petroleum. On top of that, the manufacture of fullerenes is a niche market used mostly by research (less than 100 kg of production per year worldwide), and there are many hurdles to be overcome before large scale production is even possible. Also, one would still need to use a compressor to store all that air inside the fullerenes themeselves. en fin.... Anyways that's where I would start.

[Wild Cobra]

One can compress air into fullerenes....

Really? I thought this could only be done with carbon and boron.

Source please?

[Phenomanul]

Really? I thought this could only be done with carbon and boron.

Source please?

My own experiments conducted as an apprentice to the work of Dr. J.B. Howard at MIT (back in the year 2001).

Along with Argon, the diatomic molecules (O2, N2, H2) are small enough to get absorbed into fullerenes at pressures greater than 5000 psi. Oviously the first two species on that list represent the bulk of air. The larger components in air CO2, H2O, CH4 and the pollutants NO2, O3, etc..., tend to be filtered out of the fullerenes when exposed to that compression process. But hey, that only makes those fullerenes that much more useful as a source of combustion air. Why? Because of Hess's law...

In retrospect of my previous post however, eliminating the pressure problem also eliminates the source of power for said vehicles - as in, it is the decompression of the pressure head which powers the vehicle. You remove that pressure, and you remove its functionality. I guess it couldn't be worse than strapping oneself on to a scuba tank.