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I can only make those over you.
How about the Soviet Union and the fall of comunism? Take a look at Afghanistan and use that as a progress indicator for Iraq in a years time.However, give me situations where the US has made beneficial moves in this manner in the past 50 years. What are you basing your optimism on?
I think more and more people are aware now than ever before of world events. The growth of the internet and the huge influx of sources of information has brought the whole world into our living rooms. The tiniest whisper can grow to the roar of a waterfall in minutes now. Never before can so many question so indepthly our leaders and their actions. Technology gives everyone a voice.Is there really an accountability to it's people? The vast majority of the people in this country can't tell you what's going in with the countries actions and don't know very much about the history of what it has done and what it does.
I think if we, the US, sees our actions through, great and wonderful things will come of them. We can only fail if we give up.
I can only make those over you.
And Chris, how many times did we go to war with the USSR? The 2 wars we did engage in at that time ended in a stalemate (although I think that's because of stupid leadership, North Korea should never have existed) and a flat out loss.
Then we have other situations where we screwed the pooch, IE Cuba, Indonesia, and Iran.
No, the cold war wasn't fought in the same way as we are fighting the war on terror, you can't compare the 2.
It wasn't fought the same way, that's true. But every battle is different, some may not require a single shot. In WWII we used nuclear weapons, that would not be appropriate here of course. There are mistakes to be made, but I think we are learning well at present.
The whole point of that part of my post was to find simmilar actions in the past 50 years of the US in order to justify Whotttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt's optomistic views.
Afghanistan
Serbia
I'm optimistic just because it looks like we're following through with our actions and not bailing out.
uh, Afghanistan is far from successfull.
Serbia? We didn't go in and install an entire new governmentin Serbia, not to mention all Balkan action was done with MUCH international help.
Try again?
If by following through you mean rushing forward and doing things foolishly, then I agree with you. However, I don't think that's a reason for optimism.
I understand you wanting to relate current events with past successes, but as I mention earlier, different situations call for different solutions. Maybe we did rush ahead too quickly. I don't have as great a world knowledge as the people who made the decision to go in.
My optimism is that we seem to be moving forward and although we face many difficult choices, we won't abandone our path because it's a tough road.
The Iraq War isn't about Israel per Se, it's about oil, it's distribution, and proping up the weak dollar against the Euro and other foreign currencies while piliging the resources of other countries - Imperialism 21st century style.
Oil has tripled since the war, and the dollar is much weaker. Your argument makes sense if you're backwards.
That's true, I can't...what I can do however is look at what has occurred in our last few major declared wars and see that the odds are that we will suceed by establishing Democracy.
You know when it hasn't worked out? When we have tried more peaceful methods, like covertly supporting opposition within countries, or tryng to encourage Democratic change with financial incentive. And also when we gave up on trying to win a war because of heavy opposition back here in the US.The problem is that the United States does have a history of aserting it's power to bring about change in countries. It has not always worked out in beneficial ways for everyone involved. There is cynicism that is based upon the US's history of creating problems in situations like this instead of solving them.
Pretty much when we have gone to war with someone and won the war we have a good record of success in achieving lasting peace with that country, and improving the quality of that country.
However, give me situations where the US has made beneficial moves in this manner in the past 50 years. What are you basing your optimism on?
How many US supported Democracies have failed?
At the risk of sounding like W...Democracy works better than anything else. Democracy, when it is truly given a chanced to succeed, doesn't fail often.
Yes, we have a non-violent political revolutions every 4 years, and constant on-going referendums on our leadership. We call them Democratic elections.Is there really an accountability to it's people? The vast majority of the people in this country can't tell you what's going in with the countries actions and don't know very much about the history of what it has done and what it does.
Everyone spins...No, there is very little accountability when the leaders of this country spin everything in their favor.
Well if it doesn't work at least we tried...the fact that we are going through all this effort to establish a true Democracy should be indicative to you that our motives are fairly noble. And as modern history history shows, legitimate Democracy usually succeeds when given a fair chance, no matter the culture or reigon of the world...And I believe our intentions are as good as they get when you are talking about a relationship between two national bodies. I mean we could have just appointed a despot ruler of our chosing, made him rich, and taken the oil.When we spend the money and make an effort (like we are doing now in Iraq), we can stablize situations. It is important to remember however, that in Iraq money may not be enough because of the 3 sects in place there. At this point, I'm crossing my fingers that the elections go as well as possible, but I honestly don't expect things to work out.
I won't argue the legitimacy of going into Iraq, but I will argue that it is a legitimate strategy for combating terrorism borne out of the mid-east. If they split, so be it, won't bother me, it'll be their choice and at least they had their chance to join the 21st century.
At this point, arguing the legitamcy of going into Iraq is way beyond moot, so whatever. However, At some point the leadership must begin to handle things in a smarter way. What is it going to take for someone to speak up and say that Iraq as a whole can't be one country, and it needs to be divided into 3?
The truth of life is, societies and cultures, and organisms that don't adapt to their environment, become extinct. The educational system, the technological advancement, the quality of life, the poor condition of these things in mid-eastern countries, have put nearly their entire culture on the verge of cultural extinction.
If America and the West had the mindset it had even as recently as 200 years ago, with the technological edge it now holds, the mid-eastern cultures would be nearly extinct. They are getting their chance to join the 21st century now, and they will either learn to live together, or they will continue to destroy each other, and eventually become extinct.
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