Why is Pau Gasol all of a sudden a bigger name now?

[VaSpursFan]

gasol is a solid player, he's just not the type that can lead a team. but, he won't be asked to do that in lala land.

if bynum was throwin up 15 and 10, i look for pau to put up comparable numbers. the guy is skilled offensively and you have to guard him. a change of scenery will probably do him some justice. as he builds confidence, i look for him to do some good things. i just wished the Spurs would have made a run at him since he was basically given away for a bag of peanuts and a coke.

[JamStone]

Fisher, Bryant, Odom, Gasol, Bynum.

Thats a good 5. period.

It's not just a good 5, it's the overall balance and depth. At the very least, adequate back-ups at each position. Shooters in Farmar, Vujacic, and Radman. Athletic energy guys in Turiaf and Ariza. And, a lot of flexibility with multiple guys that can play multiple positions. I don't think it can be overstated how balanced the roster is. It can go big as with the starting line-up, or it can go small with Gasol at the 5 and Odom at the 4 and Kobe at the 3. It can run half-court sets or bring in Farmar, Vujacic, Ariza, and Turiaf and play uptempo. As seemingly poor a job Kupchak did maintaining a quality roster after Shaq was traded, the mere addition of Gasol and the developments and improvements of Bynum and Farmar and the reacquisition of Fisher has made Kupchak look like a genius at constructing a roster.

Fisher / Farmar
Kobe / Vujacic
Odom / Walton / Ariza
Gasol / Radman
Bynum / Turiaf / Mihm

[remingtonbo2001]

Defense?....It's what wins championships.

Has Flip brainwashed the entire Piston fanbase?

[JamStone]

How many teams have 12 guys that all play great defense?

Kobe is a great defender. Bynum has proven to be a very solid and athletic shot blocker and rebounder. Fisher, even at his age, is an above average defender. Turiaf brings toughness at the defensive end. Ariza is an athletic wing off the bench that can be used for defense. Odom and Gasol aren't great defenders, but they aren't exactly Rashard Lewis and Zach Randolph on defense either.

No, the Lakers are not a top defensive team. But, there are only like 3 or 4 of those types of teams in the league anymore anyway.

[RonMexico]

Everyone is applauding DougCollins... don't forget this is the same guy who ruins TV broadcasts with Marv Albert and/or Kevin Harlan on a weekly basis.

[DazedAndConfused]

Lakers a top defensive team??? Nope. But they aren't terrible, I believe before Bynum went down they were in the top 10 of most statistical defensive categories.

[LakeShow]

It's not just a good 5, it's the overall balance and depth. At the very least, adequate back-ups at each position. Shooters in Farmar, Vujacic, and Radman. Athletic energy guys in Turiaf and Ariza. And, a lot of flexibility with multiple guys that can play multiple positions. I don't think it can be overstated how balanced the roster is. It can go big as with the starting line-up, or it can go small with Gasol at the 5 and Odom at the 4 and Kobe at the 3. It can run half-court sets or bring in Farmar, Vujacic, Ariza, and Turiaf and play uptempo. As seemingly poor a job Kupchak did maintaining a quality roster after Shaq was traded, the mere addition of Gasol and the developments and improvements of Bynum and Farmar and the reacquisition of Fisher has made Kupchak look like a genius at constructing a roster.

Fisher / Farmar
Kobe / Vujacic
Odom / Walton / Ariza
Gasol / Radman
Bynum / Turiaf / Mihm

Excellent analysis!



I find it hard to believe that "TRUE" Nba fans can not see that!

[DazedAndConfused]

I still think most fans are viewing the Lakers through their performances in the last 3-4 seasons. Guys like Farmar, Turiaf, Sasha, and Bynum have made explosive leaps in their games that ordinary fans probably haven't seen very much of. Of course Laker fans have seen the changes and are ecstatic, but for the casual fan who watches maybe 1-2 Laker games every couple of months they aren't likely to see this.

[LakeShow]

I still think most fans are viewing the Lakers through their performances in the last 3-4 seasons. Guys like Farmar, Turiaf, Sasha, and Bynum have made explosive leaps in their games that ordinary fans probably haven't seen very much of. Of course Laker fans have seen the changes and are ecstatic, but for the casual fan who watches maybe 1-2 Laker games every couple of months they aren't likely to see this.

Ok, I can accept that rather than comments you see from fans who obviously don't have a clue. Just say, "you don't know" if you don't know.

[remingtonbo2001]

How many teams have 12 guys that all play great defense?

Kobe is a great defender. Bynum has proven to be a very solid and athletic shot blocker and rebounder. Fisher, even at his age, is an above average defender. Turiaf brings toughness at the defensive end. Ariza is an athletic wing off the bench that can be used for defense. Odom and Gasol aren't great defenders, but they aren't exactly Rashard Lewis and Zach Randolph on defense either.

No, the Lakers are not a top defensive team. But, there are only like 3 or 4 of those types of teams in the league anymore anyway.

Kobe is a decent defender. He would be an awesome help defender, if they had a Bowen type player for Kobe to play off of. I don't think Bynum is that great of the defensive end. He's a slight upgrade over Amare. Fisher is good. Ariza hasn't proven much yet. Odom and Gasol are liabilities, which could be solid defenders. You can deal with liabilities on the perimeter, but in the front court, especially without a defensive stalwart holding down the fort.

Historically, how do those 3 or 4 teams fair?

[DazedAndConfused]

Kobe is a decent defender. He would be an awesome help defender, if they had a Bowen type player for Kobe to play off of. I don't think Bynum is that great of the defensive end. He's a slight upgrade over Amare. Fisher is good. Ariza hasn't proven much yet. Odom and Gasol are liabilities, which could be solid defenders. You can deal with liabilities on the perimeter, but in the front court, especially without a defensive stalwart holding down the fort.

Historically, how do those 3 or 4 teams fair?

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Kobe can play All-NBA defense if he wants to, and now that he doesn't to carry the load offensively you are going to see him do that. Do you remember Team USA over the summer? Kobe can lock down the perimeter as good as anyone in the NBA.

Bynum has improved his game defensively by leaps and bounds this year. He's a rebounding machine, one of the tops in the league, and averages around 2-3 bpg which is very good. One stat that doesn't show up is how many shots he alters due to his length. He has shown to be very capable of anchoring the defense, and now that he has a 7 foot help defender in Pau Gasol they are going to be very good together.

Fisher does well against bigger PG's like Billups but struggles against quicker guards. I'd say he's average, but it really depends on the matchup.

Ariza was born to play defense. 6'8", long wingspan, quick feet, he's got all the tools to be a great defender. He does a good job keeping up with the quickest in the league, but has trouble against wily crafty veterans. In time he will be our lockdown defender though.

Odom has never been a defensive stud, but he's decent. Same with Gasol.

Phil Jackson's teams have never been known for their elite defensive abilities, though his Bulls were very very good. It has always been elite offense and great defense. He has shown you can win that way, in fact he's got 9 rings to show for it.

[JamStone]

Bynum has already had some stellar defensive games. And, mind you that he's getting 10 rebounds and 2 blocks a game in 29 minutes.

He's already put together quite a few game against very good offensive big men: held Tim Duncan to 2-for13, Yao Ming to 6-for-18, Amare to 2-for-10, and Eddy Curry to 2-for-8.

Now obviously, that's not all just Bynum, it's Turiaf and sometimes Kwame Brown and/or Odom and help from teammates. But, still he's better defensively than you want to give credit. He doesn't only block shots, but alters shots. And, his conditioning last summer has helped him use his size and strength better in post defense.

How do those elite defensive usually fair? Very well. But, it doesn't guarantee a championship. The three-peat Lakers were a solid defensive team, but not among the top 5 defensive teams when they won their les. And, the Miami Heat had a couple very good defenders in Mourning and Posey but overall they were an average defensive team that had their moments. The Spurs and the Pistons were great defensive teams when they won their les but it helped neither team in 2006.

The Lakers are not a great defensive team but they can have their moments, especially when Kobe is locked in and focused defensively. They will give plenty of teams trouble with their size and length up front. And, with guys like Ariza and Turiaf, they can put out a line-up that will be tougher and more defensive oriented. Plus when Bynum comes back, Gasol won't have to be the last line of defense. He can be a weak side help defender, shot blocker, and rebounder. The Lakers don't need great individual defenders to play great team defense. Even the 90s Bulls only had a couple great defenders in Michael, Scottie, and then Rodman for the last three. The other role players learned how to play great team defense. Paxson, Kerr, Cartright, Weddington, Longley and others weren't exactly DPOY candidates. But, they learned how to play team defense. The Lakers and their role players can do that much.

[LakeShow]

Back to the future: Lakers might again be NBA's brightest light
By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com

As Chick Hearn might have said, "I'll bet you an ice cream no team has two, young 7-footers more talented than 20-year-old Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol, who's still only 27."
There is too much focus on the short-term implications of the Los Angeles Lakers' trade for Pau Gasol, even by the man who made the deal.

Did it make the Lakers the immediate favorites in the Western Conference? Not necessarily, but that's not the point. Right now, the Lakers' mid- to long-term prospects look better than anyone else's in the NBA. And that's the real benefit, especially if they just increased the chances that Kobe Bryant will be part of their future.

Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak simply was trying to keep a promising season from going down the drain after Andrew Bynum injured his knee Jan. 13. With him, the Lakers looked like one of the best teams in the West. Without him, it became evident almost immediately that they would struggle to beat anyone.

"We were hesitant to do anything while we were playing so well before Andrew got hurt," Kupchak said. "But when he went down and you're looking at eight weeks without any presence in the paint, we decided to revisit it. At that point, you're not dealing with chemistry issues, you're dealing with a season that may be on the brink."

So the Lakers revived earlier trade discussions with the Memphis Grizzlies, who had been looking to move Gasol's salary. And over the course of three weeks, the teams put together a deal that sent Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton , Aaron McKie and two first-round picks to Memphis, along with the rights to Marc Gasol.

(Now, amazingly, both the Lakers and Washington Wizards can say they were better off for having Brown. Not better off with him, but Washington traded Brown for Caron Butler, and now the Lakers have Gasol. Brown netted All-Stars for two franchises. That's a pretty good accomplishment for a No. 1 draft pick bust.)

Here's why it's unlikely this trade will lead to a parade down Figueroa Street to the Staples Center come June: It isn't as if the Lakers added Gasol to the mix of a proven group. The best they managed over the past three seasons were two first-round exits from the playoffs at the hands of the Phoenix Suns. No team since 1982 has won a championship after failing to win a playoff series the year before.

The good news for L.A. is that team was the Lakers. The bad news is it was essentially the same team that won a championship in 1980. This current squad doesn't have the same experience, and now it has added a major new component to the mix in the middle of the season. We still need to see how well Gasol can adapt to being the second option behind Bryant, how Gasol and Bynum work together in the paint, how well Bynum recovers from his injury. All of this chemistry must develop without a training camp, in between games and flights.

Says Kobe about the Pau trade: "It shows a great deal of commitment from the organization. It's a great step. ... Now it's time to walk the walk."

Maybe it will click as quickly as it did for Kevin Garnett and the Boston Celtics. But Boston had a greater sense of urgency. It has to work this year or next, or the Celtics might be out of time. By the end of 2008, Garnett will be 32, Ray Allen will be 33 and Paul Pierce will be 31. They will be taking the first steps toward the downside of their careers.

The new Lakers core features Bryant (age 29), Gasol (27) and Bynum (20). And it's hard to believe Lamar Odom still is only 27. Kupchak said Odom still fits into their plans, even if Gasol's presence makes Odom -- who already has been discussed in trade talks and who is believed to have personally inquired about trade possibilities in the past -- seem expendable.

"There's no reason why this can't be a longterm thing for Lamar," Kupchak said. "He's got a year and a half left on his contract. I think he's the perfect complement to these guys. He's so unselfish; he doesn't care about scoring. He may end up being [a guy who gets] 10 points, 12 rebounds, eight to 10 assists."

Derek Fisher, 33, is the oldest among the Lakers' regulars, but 21-year-old Jordan Farmar looks increasingly ready to take over for him down the road. There is youth everywhere on the roster.

Meanwhile, the San Antonio Spurs are starting to look older and slower. The Suns might start shedding players to avoid the luxury tax, or Shawn Marion could opt out of his contract and head elsewhere. The Dallas Mavericks could add weapons, or they could just keep imploding in the playoffs. The New Orleans Hornets haven't even made the playoffs yet, much less proved they can advance. The Portland Trail Blazers are ascending rapidly, ahead of schedule, but would you rather have Brandon Roy and Greg Oden, or Bryant, Bynum and Gasol?

The Lakers are more experienced than Portland, younger than the Denver Nuggets (in terms of key players), deeper than the Utah Jazz, and better suited to playoff basketball than the Golden State Warriors.There is no team in better position to capitalize on any slips by the recent ruling triumvirate of San Antonio, Dallas and Phoenix.

And since winning breeds more winning, the Lakers also would be in great shape to build on their own success.

"It could be something that we sustain, for longer than three or four years," Kupchak said.

Then again, this project could end in the summer of 2009 if Bryant opts out and signs elsewhere as a free agent. But it's hard to come up with a reason for him to leave now. He can't say management hasn't done anything to get him better players, he would be hard-pressed to find another team that could provide more surrounding talent, and there is no contract he could sign that would pay more than the Lakers can offer.

But one of the other hidden benefits of this trade is that it provides some insurance in case Bryant leaves. That might remove them from the championship discussion, but at least it wouldn't send the Lakers straight to lotteryville.

So even their worst-case scenario doesn't look so bad now. And the upside, all of a sudden, looks brighter than at any point since the last presidential campaign. They could close out the decade the same way they started it, as NBA champions.

J.A. Adande is the author of "The Best Los Angeles Sports Arguments." He joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here to e-mail J.A.

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like Pau is tailoring Andrew's jersey.

[ancestron]

Looks like Pau is tailoring Andrew's jersey.

let's see --waist ....36, inseam....

[remingtonbo2001]

Jamstone...Good comments, but I still think your missing part of the point.
The teams you mentioned, had at least one defensive stalwart in the post, if not 2.
The Lakers had Shaq (to an extent Horry). Your Pistons had Big Ben and Sheed.
The Spurs have Tim, Fab (undersized, but a very intellegent defender)
The Heat had Shaq, Zo and Haslem.

It's beyond statistical defense when it comes to the playoffs. It's more about the grind it out mentality. I think Kobe, Fisher and Turiaf have got it. However, I think the defensive liabilities of Gasol and Odom in the front court are too much. Bynum will be good in the future, but he still has so much expeirence to gain. I'm not saying it's beyond logic for the Lakers to contend, but it's laugable to put them ahead of teams such as the Pistons, Spurs, ect. who have used defense to win championships.
The dynamics of league have changed, so it's difficult to use the Bulls in the context of now. And we all know Jordan was something else.

Kobe ain't no Jordan. Defense is what seperates MJ from Kobe. I think Kobe matches Mike on the offensive end. But Jordan's defense was so far superior to Kobe's it's REDICULIOUS. Jordan was a better defender than Bowen. Bowen is better than Bryant. That doesn't mean Kobe isn't good, but he isn't great as DC said.

I guess we'll see where this move puts him, but I don't feel it's unreasonable to see how this trade may hurt them defensively.

[DazedAndConfused]

This trade will only help us defensively. More rebounds, two 7 foot shot blockers clogging the paint.

Kwame was an excellent MAN defender, but that's it. He was by no means a defensive anchor, especially with all the injuries he accrued.

[JamStone]

Robert Horry was never a defensive stalwart in the post, neither is Udonis Haslem. If Haslem and Horry and Oberto are then so is Ronny Turiaf. Bynum has already shown that he can be very good defensively in the post. Does he still have a lot to learn? Sure, but that doesn't mean he can't hold his own. Bynum has stifled Tim Duncan, Amare, and Yao already this year. He is capable of shutting down the lane. He's improved that much defensively as well as offensively. 10 rebounds, 2 blocks in 29 minutes a game. Shutting down Duncan and Amare. This can't be overstated. I hate when people use inexperience as the foundation of an argument. Sure, experience helps, but you take actual play and production over what intangible factor experience is. Experience isn't needed to know you have to be strong in the post and body up a player. Experience isn't needed to box out and rebound. Experience isn't needed to know that if you have the right opportunity, block the shot. It's such an overused point. Experience meant for the 2004 Pistons or Dwyane Wade in 2006.

And, I'm not sure why you would go and say how the dynamics of the league have changed so I can't use the Bulls in comparison and then you proceed to state how Jordan was better defensively than Kobe is. Jordan could hand check. Jordan had Scottie and Rodman guarding the best players on the opposing team for three and a half quarters of the game. Jordan played passing lanes. He didn't shut down players all the time. His legend has you all caught up.

Kobe may or may not be as good as Jordan defensively, but it's not a canyon of a difference. And, Kobe has never, and I mean NEVER, had the luxury of a Scottie Pippen or Dennis Rodman type of defender to help him. You put Ron Artest and Marcus Camby on the Lakers and 15 years from now, people would be calling Kobe the greatest perimeter defender of his generation too.

[Medvedenko]

The lakers prior to the Bynum and Ariza injury had the best point diff in the West. They are 3rd now....their team D is very strong.

[J.T.]

lol the Lakers in 04 are one Derek Fisher miracle shot away from losing that series in six or games.

[DazedAndConfused]

Again the reason these arguments are coming up is because people are viewing the Lakers as if they are the same team from the last 3-4 years. They have not seen the improvements that Laker fans have seen, and thus it's totally within the realm of possibility to see why they think LA is a poor defensive team.

The 3 outings we've had with the Spurs have been poor displays of what our team is capable of. The 1st time we played we were still trying to figure things out defensively and they blew us out (as did NOH in the same way). 2nd time we played Parker and Duncan were out. 3rd time we played Bynum, Ariza, Vlad Rad were out. When we play again next will be a good test of where both teams really are since it is towards the end of the regular season.

[DazedAndConfused]

lol the Lakers in 04 are one Derek Fisher miracle shot away from losing that series in six or games.

I love when Spurs bring this up like Fisher hit the only miracle shot in that game. Do you not remember Duncan's ridiculous fade away from the top of the key right before that? That was a 1 in a million shot that was far more lucky than Fish's wide open look.

[z0sa]

you're right, derek fisher's shot was an easier look than tim's.

too bad you can't shoot a shot in 0.4 seconds NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY.

[JamStone]

And too bad the timekeeper didn't stop the clock at .7 seconds when Tim's shot actually went through the hoop.

[z0sa]

that wouldve made it much easier than that 0.4 hypocrisy. I honestly think if its not LA who wins that game and some lesser market, the nba has the two teams replay the last possession.

But shaq payton malone kobe and the lakers were "destined" to win in 2004. That shot alone is the only reason I have this sort of vendetta against the Lakers -- the I personally believe the spurs were meant at least for the finals that year. You can't take anything away from the Pistons, they absolutely whipped LA's ass and we lost to LA, but still...