haha Hollinger on Suns Trade

[Spuradicator]

this is a bad move for the suns. No need for optimism whatsoever. Panic move if I've ever seen one. I don't care what any suns fan says, deep down inside they know this is true.

[mardigan]

But the reality is, the Suns have banked all the way on their style. I don't think their style WILL win them a championship, but they're in too deep to change now. Nash can't play as effectively in a half-court game, and Amare and Shaq are not good enough to play a defense-first oriented team. Nor is D'Antoni capable of coaching such a team. So why not continue to try and win in what has been virtually trademarked as the Suns-style? It's their best chance of winning, and this move simply makes them a mediocre half-court team with no one who can actually play defense.

Nash is just as good in the halfcourt, dont know what your talking about there. Hill, amare, Bell also can play halfcourt ball. Also, how do you know a team cant play another style when they have never been givin the option of doing so, especially when they havent had a real center probably since Luc longley.
And no, it doesnt make them just a mediocre halfcourt team, it makes them a team who can for the first time in a long time play both styles. Hill, Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Diaw, and Stoudamire can all still run, all they need is a outlet pass. Keeping in mind how good of a passer is in the halfcourt, I think Shaq could add something the team and Nash have never had.

Oh, and the Suns were already giving up 103 points a game, dont really know how much a difference marion being gone will make.

[inconvertible]

kerr has gone crazy.

[Findog]

If Shaq can stay healthy and he's motivated, then there's tremendous upside for Phoenix, but those are big if's. And I certainly think he'll be more effective with Steve Nash as his PG than Chris Quinn. The question for me is how much of broken down decrepit Shaq was a function of just going through the motions in Miami and not being in shape.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm still too confused, angry and saddened to really have a comment.

Congrats Sarver... I'm speechless.

[Findog]

I'm still too confused, angry and saddened to really have a comment.

Congrats Sarver... I'm speechless.

Call me crazy, but I think there's a chance it might work. If Shaq has something left but just didn't give a anymore in Miami, then Phoenix could be getting a steal. If you start from the proposition that the Suns weren't going to win a le as currently constructed, then this is a gamble that might pay off. I can see him showing glimpses of the old Shaq, the same way Vince Carter immediately picked up his game when he left Toronto.

[TheNextGen]

Call me crazy, but I think there's a chance it might work. If Shaq has something left but just didn't give a anymore in Miami, then Phoenix could be getting a steal. If you start from the proposition that the Suns weren't going to win a le as currently constructed, then this is a gamble that might pay off. I can see him showing glimpses of the old Shaq, the same way Vince Carter immediately picked up his game when he left Toronto.

Shaq has NOTHING left. he cant even win 10 games in the east with DWade. wft is that. lol

Washed up...fat...slow...will play half a season. I cant wait to see the Suns try to run with the big fart huffing and puffing at the back court.

[Cry Havoc]

Exactly, Spur fans have been talking about the Suns style of play for years, how it never got them anywhere. Now they make a move to help them also be able to play a traditional style, and its laughable, right. Throw in the fact that they even saved money for this move, and it was a very worthwhile risk to take. Shaq can still dominate when he wants too, and Im sure having Jason Williams and Quinn as his points didnt help.

My god, no. You are using the general argument instead of the rationale behind it.

The Spurs fans decry the Suns method of play not because they play run 'n gun, but because they play NO DEFENSE in the process.

This is laughable because not only does it take away from their run 'n gun style of play that gets them a lot of their wins, it also takes away their most versatile defender, the ONLY one who can even hope to contain Parker and Manu (they both mismatch on Bell, Parker is too fast, and he can't really effectively contain Manu), AND it reduces depth by eliminating a guy that can play the 1-4 positions whenever they need, replacing him with a 5 only.

If the Suns traded away Marion for Delambert + pieces, or a big guy with a proven defensive record, it would be understandable.

If the Suns slowed their game down by dumping Amare to big up a guy who gets blocks but not as many touches, I would be a lot more concerned.

So what did they do? They traded one of the most versatile men in the league, the ONLY man who have EVER, EVER, EVER shown one iota of an ability to slow the Spurs attack down, for an injured, out of shape, broken down shadow of his former self, who now draws as many fouls as he does rebounds. He will be absolutely the worst "good" big man in the league at rotating over to stop Parker and Manu without fouling them. And he chokes their offense in the process. Not only will they not have Marion to create fast-break points and make defensive plays for transistion offense, but now Amare will not have the spacing he is used to being granted in the post to do his thing. Instead of his little jump-hop-dunk, he'll be jump-hop-be-double teamed by the guy sitting on Shaq watching him pant and wheeze under the hoop.

[Cry Havoc]

Oh, and the Suns were already giving up 103 points a game, dont really know how much a difference marion being gone will make.

Probably not much, scoring wise, since they'll slow down without Marion.

But have you actually watched the Suns play in half-court? I'm not talking about the regular season. My god, no one gives two s about the regular season anymore. ANY time we got the Suns into a half court set in the playoffs, I started smiling. They lock up. If Nash doesn't score, they get swatted or miss a bunny. It's like clockwork. Have you suddenly forgotten about all those articles written about how the Suns HAVE to keep the game flowing in the open court, because anytime they get into a set offense the Spurs squish them?

And no, it doesnt make them just a mediocre halfcourt team, it makes them a team who can for the first time in a long time play both styles.

Sure. They went from an A+ team in the open court and a D team in the half-set to a B- or a B team in the open court and a C- team in the half-set. Shaq adds VERY little to their offense, as hurt and foul prone as he is, and he packs the lane and takes ALL of Nash's spacing away. He won't be able to go traipsing through the defense anymore waiting for an open player, because as soon as he ventures into the lane, he'll have one more defender there playing off of Shaq, who won't step outside the 3 point line to save his life.

And I can't wait to see what the ball rotations look like for the Suns on defense now. Really.

[mardigan]

My god, no. You are using the general argument instead of the rationale behind it.

The Spurs fans decry the Suns method of play not because they play run 'n gun, but because they play NO DEFENSE in the process.

This is laughable because not only does it take away from their run 'n gun style of play that gets them a lot of their wins, it also takes away their most versatile defender, the ONLY one who can even hope to contain Parker and Manu (they both mismatch on Bell, Parker is too fast, and he can't really effectively contain Manu), AND it reduces depth by eliminating a guy that can play the 1-4 positions whenever they need, replacing him with a 5 only.

If the Suns traded away Marion for Delambert + pieces, or a big guy with a proven defensive record, it would be understandable.

If the Suns slowed their game down by dumping Amare to big up a guy who gets blocks but not as many touches, I would be a lot more concerned.

So what did they do? They traded one of the most versatile men in the league, the ONLY man who have EVER, EVER, EVER shown one iota of an ability to slow the Spurs attack down, for an injured, out of shape, broken down shadow of his former self, who now draws as many fouls as he does rebounds. He will be absolutely the worst "good" big man in the league at rotating over to stop Parker and Manu without fouling them. And he chokes their offense in the process. Not only will they not have Marion to create fast-break points and make defensive plays for transistion offense, but now Amare will not have the spacing he is used to being granted in the post to do his thing. Instead of his little jump-hop-dunk, he'll be jump-hop-be-double teamed by the guy sitting on Shaq watching him pant and wheeze under the hoop.

Ok, well then the "experts" say you cant win playing their style. Marion is so freaking overated around here its unbelievable. Cant create his own shot, disappears in the playoffs, and he is a bad teamate. Why would you want a player on a team trying to win a le who would want to go to Miami? Anyone wanting to do that I would want gone. Are you really telling me you thought the Suns were going to win the le this year? What was going to be different? At least Kerr had the balls to realize they werent winning with Marion, so he's taking his chances that playing with Steve Nash could revitalize his career, and to me, its worth the chance. Amare gets to play the 4, stay out of foul trouble, and not get doubled. They can still run, and now they can slow it down, I dont see how its a bad thing to take a chance on a guy who just might help against the West's bigs.

[Cry Havoc]

Ok, well then the "experts" say you cant win playing their style. Marion is so freaking overated around here its unbelievable. Cant create his own shot, disappears in the playoffs, and he is a bad teamate. Why would you want a player on a team trying to win a le who would want to go to Miami? Anyone wanting to do that I would want gone. Are you really telling me you thought the Suns were going to win the le this year? What was going to be different? At least Kerr had the balls to realize they werent winning with Marion, so he's taking his chances that playing with Steve Nash could revitalize his career, and to me, its worth the chance.

Wait, when did I advocate for keeping Marion? Marion wanted more touches. Hence trading Amare away for a center who doesn't want the ball all the freaking time. Marion's happier from that, perhaps.

It was obvious that either Amare or Marion had to go. I have no beef with trading Marion for a talented player who can contribute. But -- honestly -- Shaq is the BEST they could do? An aging player in the midst of a collasal decline who has an albatross of a contract? That's what they want in Phoenix?

Marion played well against us last year. He was the ONLY guy that kept Parker from scoring 30 a game on them, and this fact was well-do ented. Without Marion, that series is over in 5, and the NBA doesn't have to worry about the incident with Horry.

AK + picks makes more sense. A deal with the Bulls could have been productive. But they just ditched their best (yes, better than Bell) defender to pick up a broken foul-machine who will likely miss half the regular season and probably end up being hurt just in time for the playoffs.

[mardigan]

Wait, when did I advocate for keeping Marion? Marion wanted more touches. Hence trading Amare away for a center who doesn't want the ball all the freaking time. Marion's happier from that, perhaps.

It was obvious that either Amare or Marion had to go. I have no beef with trading Marion for a talented player who can contribute. But -- honestly -- Shaq is the BEST they could do? An aging player in the midst of a collasal decline who has an albatross of a contract? That's what they want in Phoenix?

Marion played well against us last year. He was the ONLY guy that kept Parker from scoring 30 a game on them, and this fact was well-do ented. Without Marion, that series is over in 5, and the NBA doesn't have to worry about the incident with Horry.

AK + picks makes more sense. A deal with the Bulls could have been productive. But they just ditched their best (yes, better than Bell) defender to pick up a broken foul-machine who will likely miss half the regular season and probably end up being hurt just in time for the playoffs.

And you could very well be right and my advocacy for Shaq could make me look like an idjut, but I just see this working for some reason. Hopefully he passes his physical so we can see one of the most unique combinations in NBA history.



And maybe it was the best big they could get, and if he does stay healthy, which I know is a big if, there probably wasnt a better option.

[Cry Havoc]

And you could very well be right and my advocacy for Shaq could make me look like an idjut, but I just see this working for some reason. Hopefully he passes his physical so we can see one of the most unique combinations in NBA history.



And maybe it was the best big they could get, and if he does stay healthy, which I know is a big if, there probably wasnt a better option.

Well, they wouldn't even NEED a center, just another PF. Running two 4s in their system wouldn't hurt them too much.

And there is a huge amount of interest in Marion. There has to be a few deals out there, not least of all the Bulls. Wallace and one of their wings would be great in the Suns system, as Ben runs the floor much better than Shaq does, and matches up against the Spurs MUCH better.

I'm hoping this goes through too, if for no other reason than the novelty of it all.

[Jeremy]

I'm still too confused, angry and saddened to really have a comment.

Congrats Sarver... I'm speechless.

What's really crazy is that this move isn't even a financial one!!! It saves the Suns just a tiny bit this year, and a little over a million dollars next year, but then Shaq's $20 million contract is still around in 2009/10 when Marion's contract would be over!!!!

Can someone explain to me why SARVER would agree to this, especially considering that it most likely will not be a good basketball move???!!

[Obstructed_View]

Suns beat the Spurs with this lineup, because Amare and Shaq will put the Spurs into the penalty very early, and the Spurs don't shoot free throws well.

[Cry Havoc]

Suns beat the Spurs with this lineup, because Amare and Shaq will put the Spurs into the penalty very early, and the Spurs don't shoot free throws well.

Lol, maybe that's their solution. "We won't play defense, we'll just put you in the bonus from 2 minutes into each quarter and make you shoot 85-90 free throws a game.

[Shred]

Ok, well then the "experts" say you cant win playing their style. Marion is so freaking overated around here its unbelievable. Cant create his own shot, disappears in the playoffs, and he is a bad teamate. Why would you want a player on a team trying to win a le who would want to go to Miami? Anyone wanting to do that I would want gone. Are you really telling me you thought the Suns were going to win the le this year? What was going to be different? At least Kerr had the balls to realize they werent winning with Marion, so he's taking his chances that playing with Steve Nash could revitalize his career, and to me, its worth the chance. Amare gets to play the 4, stay out of foul trouble, and not get doubled. They can still run, and now they can slow it down, I dont see how its a bad thing to take a chance on a guy who just might help against the West's bigs.

Hammer, nail, head.

[Capt Bringdown]

Hollinger makes it sound like record means everything and has no idea why the Suns would do this. Pretty sad drive-by media no thinking involved "analysis". That last bolded paragraph is particularly amusing.

Agreed, he sounds like a petulant little brat who's had his favorite toy taken away.

For the past few years it's been like, "Ladies and Gentlemen, your ESPN Suns!"

What, no more gushing articles about the Suns reinventing basketball?

[Mister Sinister]

This is madness!

THIS IS HILARIOUUUUUUUUS!

[Mister Sinister]

Lol, maybe that's their solution. "We won't play defense, we'll just put you in the bonus from 2 minutes into each quarter and make you shoot 85-90 free throws a game.

Then about the officiating.

[Heath Ledger]

The Suns better get Shaq some HGH quick and things will be gravy baby.

[Medvedenko]

The more I think of it...it's a good trade for the Suns....they have bled their current lineup and needed to change.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Just another reason why this trade will work out; John Hollinger is against it.

[Capt Bringdown]

I think the recent loss to the Spurs when we didn't even have Parker on the floor was the catalyst for this trade.

They say we don't dream in color, but I'm pretty sure Suns fans nightmares are in silver and black.

[sribb43]

if shaq is heathly[U], suns made out very well. otherwise they traded marion for nothin except for $40 mil over the next 2 yrs and will get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round..

suns must win it this season otherwise the window is offically shut bc their screwed cap wise and shaq will be worthless