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Spurs will run on the Suns; talk about role reversal.
On a missed 3; out to Parker, Duncan sprints down, set quick; it's 5 on 4 (3.5 if Nash is in) for a few ticks while Shaq catches up.
I don't think people are focusing enough on what the Suns lost... 38 mpg 3pt shooter/best rebounder/most versitile defender/best floor runner and 2nd best finisher. Shaq's gonna have to play huge to overcome just what they lost. And do it in 20-25 mpg.
Spurs will run on the Suns; talk about role reversal.
On a missed 3; out to Parker, Duncan sprints down, set quick; it's 5 on 4 (3.5 if Nash is in) for a few ticks while Shaq catches up.
With Nash (vice Marion) guarding a presumably healthy TP?I don't think so.
It's either penetrate and (1) teardrop over the lumbering Shaq (if he's not on the bench in street clothes), (2) pass to the man Shaq WAS guarding for a slam, or (3) kick out to a spot up shooter for "Trey Bien".
WHY? BECAUSE HIS BODY IS OLD, HAS TOO MANY MILES, AND CANNOT HANDLE THE WEIGHT ANYMORE.
Therefore, I'll stick by my prediction and say he retires after this season...WITH NO 5th RING!! and leaves the Suns holding a very expensive bag.
Quote me: Shaq retires after this year. And if he has more health problems,he could even go sooner. The Suns will have lost their gamble and Kerr is back on TNT next year.
Shaq is smaller than he was a couple year ago, but his lack of definition of muscles in his arms and shoulders says to me he's about 40 lbs over lean weight, not good with a history of toe/foot/knee/hip injuries.
He certainly carrying a lot more fat than Yao, who lists at 310.
Yeah Im focusing on what they gained, what they've needed all along.I don't think people are focusing enough on what the Suns lost... 38 mpg 3pt shooter/best rebounder/most versitile defender/best floor runner and 2nd best finisher. Shaq's gonna have to play huge to overcome just what they lost. And do it in 20-25 mpg.
They lost a soft playoff choker, although hes the only one who could guard Tony Parker.
They gained a good defensive center, who can help their rebounding and spark the offense when Steve Nash sits down.
I think many are overrating Shaq and underrating Marion's importance to that team.
Don't make Shaq mad or else he will "win a championship"
Shaq is starting over and thrilled with his 'fabulous' team
Shaq is starting over and thrilled with his 'fabulous' team
By BOB BAUM, AP Sports Writer
February 7, 2008
AP - Feb 7, 1:14 pm EST
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PHOENIX (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal had strong words for those who doubt he can fit in with the Phoenix Suns.
"I'm very upset," he said Thursday at a news conference to introduce him as a member of his new team. "You just don't really want to get me upset. When I'm upset, I'm known to do certain things -- like win championships."
O'Neal, once the game's dominant big man but now slowed by a hip injury, said he is motivated by the negative talk.
"This team has always been there in the Western Conference," he said. "They just couldn't quite get over the hump. I think with my experience and my on the court-off the court leadership, I can help them get over the hump."
Asked what he felt when he heard he could be going to Phoenix, O'Neal said, "I wanted it to happen because I was going to be coming to a fabulous team with a lot of unselfish players, a lot of great players."
He said people are "going to be very surprised" about his role in a Suns running game orchestrated by Steve Nash.
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"The last couple of years I was in a system that we really didn't run, so you automatically think I can't run," he said. "But I love to run, especially if I'm playing with a great guy like Steve Nash. I look forward to making people eat their words, I really do."
O'Neal, who turns 36 next month, has been out for two weeks with a hip injury but cleared his physical Wednesday and hopes to play before the All-Star break.
O'Neal was his charming self throughout the news conference. Asked if he knew he looked good in purple, he smiled and said, "I did. Thank you very much."
On Wednesday night, he was also smiling. He stood from his seat in a suite high above the court at US Airways Center. He pointed to his ring finger and gave a thumbs up.
The crowd went crazy. The message he was sending on the big screen at the Phoenix-New Orleans game was clear: He intends to bring to Phoenix the championship that has eluded the Suns through their 40-year history.
The trade that brought O'Neal to Phoenix on Wednesday is one of the most unexpected in NBA history, a blockbuster that sent Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami and came together in just a few days under first-year Phoenix general manager Steve Kerr.
The criticism has been widespread from fans to talk radio hosts to newspaper columnists. All claimed that Phoenix had acquired a once-great big man far past his prime, a 7-foot-1, 325-pound Goliath who would stifle the Suns' trademark up-tempo game.
And the Suns were taking on a contract that pays O'Neal $20 million each of the next two seasons.
Yet coach Mike D'Antoni and the Suns players said they were elated, that they believe O'Neal will be reinvigorated by the move and become a crucial component of their le run.
AP - Feb 6, 7:48 pm EST
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"We feel like our players are giddy with the possibilities," D'Antoni said, "and he's ready and focused. It's up to the coaching staff to do the tweaks without changing everything, and I don't think we have to."
Nash was "shocked" by the trade.
"If you look at what happened the last 24 hours it was incredible," he said. "You go through a whole bunch of emotions. It was very unexpected, but at the same time to get a chance to play with Shaquille O'Neal is pretty exciting."
The Suns believe whatever ails O'Neal can be cured by their doctors and training staff.
"It's a matter of flexibility in the joints and different things," Kerr said. "They're very progressive with their rehabilitation and they felt very strongly that he's going to be more mobile and explosive than what he has been."
Nash is well aware of questions concerning O'Neal's health.
"There's doubts and a risk to everything," Nash said. "I know that's going to be a favorite talking point for all the media, but for us the talking point is we've got an incredible, huge, talented, charismatic player in our locker room now. ... This sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun."
O'Neal's ability to lift spirits is another plus for a Suns team that seemed joyless despite its success.
"I think the Big Aristotle is going to be fun for us," Nash said. "He has a great personality and he is one of the most exciting, charismatic players we have had in this league in a long time. Hopefully he is as excited to be here as he sounds and as we are and gives everybody a big lift."
O'Neal has averaged 25.6 points and 11.5 rebounds in 16 seasons in the NBA. This season, plagued by injuries and going through a divorce, he's averaging 14.2 points. His 14-year streak as an All-Star choice came to an end this year.
He missed much of the 2006-07 season with a knee injury and finished that season with career lows in games (40), scoring (17.3 points), rebounds (7.4), minutes (28.4) and free-throw percentage (.422).
"When Shaq came to the team four years ago, I always felt it was forever," Heat coach Pat Riley said. "We won a championship with him. We wish him nothing but the best. We have to move on with our team. We're rebuilding."
Marion was perennially worthless in the postseason...if you wanna talk about how important he was during the regular season that's completely different.
The Suns winning 60 during the reg season didn't mean when Marion was throwing up goose eggs in the second round of the playoffs.
Marion had a good series against the Spurs last season in the playoffs and put up 16 per IIRC with good rebounding. I wouldnt call that worthless.
The bottom line is this Suns team now is built more for a half court game, but IMO they still won't be better in it than the Spurs, Mavs, and possibly Lakers.
You guys can bring up Marion's stats till the cows come home...but the fact of the matter is...
He's never the guy that makes you go, "oh , he's got the ball", not even when he's shooting threes. And Bruce Bowen shuts his ass down, till we figured out we could beat the Suns without him being shut down....because Marion can be rendered a non-factor just as easily by shutting Steve Nash down.
You never Shawn Marion take over the game offensively, you never see them run the offense through him, and he's never the guy that makes big plays to win games outside of the occasional three.
Shaq on the other makes you go, "Oh ". As does Nash...as does Amare. Matter of fact...they are probably the best, "Oh trio" to be teamed up in recent NBA history.
There's a difference there...Shawn Marion is not a dominant player. He's not a scary player...he's a role player with extreme versatility and athleticism....not the guy that makes you go, "oh ".
All i know is having to deal with Stoudamire and Shaq in tandem is going to be tough as . If Shaq's healthy enough, then they got better for the short term.
Apart from the odd standout game, the Spurs always contained Marion's impact.
It doesn't matter if Shaq can get healthy or not. It's not just the injuries that slow the guy down. It's AGE. He is almost 36, and has lost a great deal of the athleticism that made him such a freak. Now he's just big. In his prime he was big and fast, which made him so hard to guard. He could back you down and beat you on the spin. No matter how "healthy" he gets, he will never be close to the top of his game. People throw out "75%". I think he is closer to 60% of his prime. Shaq's always had injuries, even in his 20's. But he could still dominate, cause he was athletic. No more. Look at his rebounding and BLK numbers the last few years. The regression is the same as what is happening to Ben Wallace. These guys relied on their athleticism, when that leaves them, so does most of their game.
And another thing. With Marion gone, who fills his position? Grant Hill. Shaq isn't the only big IF on this Suns team.
And another thing, what is Shaq's record (playing against the almighty big men of the Eastern conference) the last 2 years? It shouldn't make a difference to a champion where he plays, or how much supposed "motivation" he has. A big song and dance was made about how "motivated" he was to stick it to Kobe. That's a croc. Shaq's a bonafide champion with a lot of pride. Everything else is just a story line. He doesn't light it up anymore because he CAN'T, not because he isn't motivated.
Last edited by lrrr; 02-08-2008 at 06:18 AM.
...i don't care what anyone says, shaq weighs more than 325. aside from that, as i've said before, its a good trade.
what's the average age of the suns now?
Sure, this isn't the Shaq of 2000-2002, but he's not that bad. Then you have him in tandem with Stoudemire up front. The Suns definitely lose a lot with Marion gone. They will need Hill to really ramp it up to cover that loss. At least Marion's off court drama is gone for them.
Still, this was a good acquisition by the Suns. They hit their ceiling before this move and their window closes in a couple of years.
Kori, can we move this thread into classics so that when some n00b asks why everyone on the board thinks TPark and whotttt are so resoundingly re ed, we can just link this thread and it will explain everything?
Thanks.
"The last couple of years I was in a system that we really didn't run, so you automatically think I can't run," he said. "But I love to run, especially if I'm playing with a great guy like Steve Nash. I look forward to making people eat their words, I really do."
Watch out.
I agree with this post. I just hope Parker is ready and Duncan / Manu are fresh enough come playoff time to match the energy the Suns will bring. And Bowen better be on point, too, because I'm sure Nash is licking his chops right now.
I think one thing that people are underestimating is the impact that will be had simply by Shaq being there. The excitement that his presence alone will bring to the team, the fans,... I think that you will see an invigorated group of players believing that they can indeed win a championship, and this is the team that has the best record in the West already. I see so much denial from Spurs fans because they simply do not want to believe ths-- the Suns plus Shaq!!
Shaq has not been the dominant force he's been since the Spurs knocked off the Lakers in 2003. Now, he's not only not dominant anymore, he's injured.
Doesn't mean he's not still the best center the Suns have ever had, and that he won't at least be good for a round or two, but Duncan owns Shaq at this point. He's not even top 5 as far as defenders Duncan has a problem with or offensive players Duncan has trouble containing. Rasheed Wallace, Dwight Howard, Carlos Boozer, and Kevin Garnett easily out-trump Shaq, just for starters.
The Spurs have in recent history owned the Suns, not by slowing them down, but by out-running them in their own game. See the number of games whereby the Suns score 100+ and still lose to us.
The Suns defense which was already not great, just got slower.
Yes, injured and overweight 36 yr old Shaq will amazingly revert to 2000 level Shaq because he talks a big game. Anyone can talk big, but if their body is wrecked they can't back it up. Any rejuvenation of the Suns players now will be despair come April when Shaq is down and their chemistry is whacked. That's why they are making a play for Artest, they know that this team isn't good enough as is.
The Suns achilles heel has always been their lack of depth from the bench. Shaq ain't gonna change that.
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