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  1. #26
    Purrrrrrrrrrrr Holt's Cat's Avatar
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    You're not going to take issue with me moving Manu back to the first man off the bench or Bonner and Vaughn on the outskirts of a 8-man playoff rotation?

    Pop may or may not move Manu to the bench. No biggie. I don't think Vaughn will totally be run out of the rotation unless it's clear he's hurting the team. I think timvp is right that the Spurs will try to get some minutes from Stoudamire at the 2.

  2. #27
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    He will need to step it up now.
    Yeah, the person who will determine whether this trade was good or not isn't really Thomas ... it's Udoka. If Udoka can step up and fill the Barry void, this trade will look golden. If he doesn't, Spurs fans will blame the trade for taking away Barry.

    Thomas is pretty much a given. He'll come in and bang, rebound, block a shot, hit a jumper or two and call it a night. If Udoka can become a dependable fourth wing, the Spurs shouldn't miss Barry too much.

    And really, I think Pop is ready to trust Udoka enough to at least slide him into the role Barry played last year in the postseason. Pop has never really been a big fan of having an abundance of capable swingman. When that happens, Pop usually thins the herd to lessen the pressure on the players who wants to go with. The Spurs having five capable swingmen to this point in the season was an anomaly.

  3. #28
    Banned Spurs Dynasty 21's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Thomas in the starting lineup


    remember Nazr benched Rasho and Nazr came to the Spurs at last second of the trade deadline

  4. #29
    Basketball Expertise spurster's Avatar
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    If the Western Conference remains close, Pop might not have the luxury of managing the playing time of the big three. Even if a few teams fade, do the Spurs want to start as a 5-8 seed? Beating three quality teams on the road in the West followed by the Celtics or Pistons would be very tough to do.

  5. #30
    Casper Ghost Writer's Avatar
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    I don't think Stoudamire should be played at the 2. He's not good/fast enough now (perhaps never was) to be an undersized off-guard, ala Iverson. In fact, he seems to forcefit his jumpers out of the flow of the offense. That's one thing Vaughn realized... the best way for Spurs PGs to score in this motion offense is to drive (and get a layup or kick out to the open man). I don't like Stoudamire floating around the perimeter looking for an open shot. That's reserved for our 2/3s. Drive and create for yourself or others.

    Moving Manu to 6th man eliminates the need for that.

    timvp took issue when I started thread detailing how the Spurs had a lot of the same skills at the same positions.

    Barry was superfluous.

  6. #31
    Bo Knows Spurs remingtonbo2001's Avatar
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    Hmmm....I would take both Manu and Oberto out of the starting lineup and bring them off the bench. Both play very well together. You can now afford to bring Oberto off the bench. I guess you could play KT and Tim together.

    It would even out the rotations. Really, it depends on matchups. That's what the Spurs have built their team(s) upon, to be able to matchup against anyone at any given situation.

  7. #32
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I don't think Stoudamire should be played at the 2. He's not good/fast enough now (perhaps never was) to be an undersized off-guard, ala Iverson.
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...501140NOH.html

    For one night, at least, Stoudamire and the shooting guard position worked well.

    timvp took issue when I started thread detailing how the Spurs had a lot of the same skills at the same positions.
    How are Oberto and Thomas not players with "same skills at the same positions"? The Spurs traded for a smart big who defends on the low block, rebounds and hits the occasional jumper.

    The Spurs used some of their duplicity at the swingman positions to add some duplicity at the bigman positions.

  8. #33
    Believe.
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    If the Western Conference remains close, Pop might not have the luxury of managing the playing time of the big three. Even if a few teams fade, do the Spurs want to start as a 5-8 seed? Beating three quality teams on the road in the West followed by the Celtics or Pistons would be very tough to do.
    All depends on standings of other teams. With NO so high up still, Utah battling against Denver for 4th, Spurs could get lucky and not have to face L.A., Suns, Mavs, etc in the first round. Add in Golden State who have been compe ive against the best in the league, and anything can happen....again.

  9. #34
    Casper Ghost Writer's Avatar
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    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...501140NOH.html

    For one night, at least, Stoudamire and the shooting guard position worked well.

    How are Oberto and Thomas not players with "same skills at the same positions"? The Spurs traded for a smart big who defends on the low block, rebounds and hits the occasional jumper.

    The Spurs used some of their duplicity at the swingman positions to add some duplicity at the bigman positions.
    timvp, that was one (1) night and three (3) years ago. You see him play in person. Manu comes off the bench and Damon backs up Parker and Vaughn waves a towel.

    Agree to an extent on Oberto, but in this case, the duplicity was needed. It was just Oberto before Thomas joined. And Thomas is way more physical than Oberto. I bet he is 50 lbs. heavier without even looking.

  10. #35
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    The Spurs' frontcourt was untenable as it stood before this trade. You had 3 guys you could trust in the postseason. In the swingman rotation you had 4. This is a big man's league. Looking at the other likely Western Conference playoff teams it was clear this was an area of concern. If Barry doesn't come back the trade still looks good because of this.
    I'm not criticizing or not the trade. I'm just saying that I think Spurs need an extra swingman.
    It could be Barry, a vet FA available now, a D-League player or a player that will be waived before March 1st.

    We will see what will happen but I doubt Spurs will stay with 4 SG/SF. Spurs have even 2 roster spot. I don't think it's impossible to see them signing a D-League prospect and Barry to fill these 2 roster spots.

  11. #36
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I can see how the burden will be on Ime to prove that he's better than Brent. However, to me, Ime's usefulness is already apparent. He plays D and rebounds from the wing position. That was what we asked of him when we signed him. We don't have anyone else on the wing who can do both.

    To me, the person who has to step up is Finley. Ime's role hasn't been to score, that's Finley's job. If Finley goes into a shooting slump then I think that should be the judge of whether or not this trade was a success. Ime's role was never to be the shooter and I think its unfair to drop that on him. Finley's job has always been the shooter.

    I realize I'm in the minority on this issue, but I think they should have been looking to move Finley instead of Barry because with what Ime is now bringing to the court (defense and rebounding), Barry's contribution (shooting and passing) makes a more balanced fit.

    If Barry is done for the season, then obviously all these arguments don't matter on either side.

  12. #37
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    /RANT


    YYAARGH!!

    Duplicity! DUPLICITY!!!

    Get a ing dictionary you bleeding ass clowns!!!

    The word is DUPLICATION. The verb form is duplicate. eg. 1) Thomas duplicates Oberto's skill set. 2) The Spurs reduced their duplication of skill sets in the wing positions to increase their depth in big men..

    Duplicity means something else entirely. eg. TiMVP and Whott are both duplicitous ratweasels who regularly switch positions on issues, and then pretend that they never took the previous position.

    /END RANT

  13. #38
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    I'm not criticizing or not the trade. I'm just saying that I think Spurs need an extra swingman.
    It could be Barry, a vet FA available now, a D-League player or a player that will be waived before March 1st.

    We will see what will happen but I doubt Spurs will stay with 4 SG/SF. Spurs have even 2 roster spot. I don't think it's impossible to see them signing a D-League prospect and Barry to fill these 2 roster spots.
    Agreed, I think we will pick up one more swing. Be it Barry or someone else. I also wonder if we will try an pick up a 7th big temporarily. An extra mobile big might be exceedingly useful on a short term basis (matches up with Amare, assorted small ball teams, assorted perimeter PF's). There is one available - Justin Williams of the Kings was cut recently as part of the Bibby trade. his minimum salary (at 1 year in the league) is $687,456, pro rated. IIRC from Bruno's other thread we could potentially pick him up, and have a spot for Barry at the vet min if he gets bought out...

  14. #39
    Basketball Expertise spurster's Avatar
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    /RANT


    YYAARGH!!

    Duplicity! DUPLICITY!!!

    Get a ing dictionary you bleeding ass clowns!!!

    The word is DUPLICATION. The verb form is duplicate. eg. 1) Thomas duplicates Oberto's skill set. 2) The Spurs reduced their duplication of skill sets in the wing positions to increase their depth in big men..

    Duplicity means something else entirely. eg. TiMVP and Whott are both duplicitous ratweasels who regularly switch positions on issues, and then pretend that they never took the previous position.

    /END RANT
    Your comment is very duplicitous. In addition, redundant, too.

  15. #40
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    We will see what will happen but I doubt Spurs will stay with 4 SG/SF. Spurs have even 2 roster spot. I don't think it's impossible to see them signing a D-League prospect and Barry to fill these 2 roster spots.
    I think the Suns will sign Barry just to keep him and his clutch shooting away from the Spurs.

  16. #41
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Duplicity (Du'-plic- i-ty) n. double dealing, deceitfulness, deceiving by thinking one thing and saying another or by willfully saying different things at different times." from Webster's.

    CIA Pop strikes again...er...or something I guess.

  17. #42
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    I think the Suns will sign Barry just to keep him and his clutch shooting away from the Spurs.
    It makes little doubt that Suns will try to sign Barry. However, Barry will be free to decide to sign with them or not.

  18. #43
    GIVE IT TO GINOBILI beirmeistr's Avatar
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    Starters
    1 Parker
    2 Ginobili
    3 Bowen
    4 Duncan
    5 Oberto

    Bench
    1 Stoudamire
    1 Vaughn
    2/3 Finley
    2/3 Udoka
    4 Horry
    4 Bonner
    4/5 Thomas

    The Thomas trade added some balance to the frontcourt rotation, something which needed to be done with Horry not fully integrated back into the rotation and Elson not showing any improvement in his second season with the Spurs. Anyways, here's a quick rundown by position.

    1 - Obviously, Parker's health is a concern. It's good that there doesn't seem to be much pressure to rush him back. With Vaughn and new acquisition Damon Stoudamire the Spurs can wait a little for TP to heal. I like Vaughn, I truly do, but sometimes he can be a little shaky. But he plays hard and focused. His jumper makes one nervous. Stoudamire definitely has an opportunity to get some minutes and take some shots if he can bring more consistent play. If so, the Spurs will have their best backup 1 in a while. Overall, this is the deepest the Spurs have been at point in quite a while.

    2 - Manu. Manu. Manu. Save some of that for May and June. I think right now you have to be comfortable with him and Finley. Hopefully Manu's minutes can be curtailed with Parker's return to rest him a little for the postseason. The Spurs have lost some depth and flexibility here and at the 3 with Barry's exit.

    3 - I think the Spurs are fine here. Some are starting to think about reaching for the panic button with respect to Bruce, but he'll be fine come the second season. I'd much rather he not overly exert himself right now. The Ime Udoka acquisition looks better and better. He does look capable of being the small ball 4. Consistency would be nice. But he's on the right track.

    4 - Keeping on keeping on. Another season for Tim Duncan. His FG% is down slightly from last season, but his FT% is up 6% to 70%. His rebounding is up, his blocks are down, but so are his TOs. Horry started this season in street clothes and really hasn't found consistent playing time until the last 10 or so games. Of course, it's February. New acquisition Kurt Thomas should help to make this the best position for the Spurs (helped in no small part by the aforementioned Duncan). Thomas should help on the glass, on defense, and provide a little better spacing on offense. With TD seeing half of the game at the 5 it is important that the Spurs have a quality reserve big to play the 4. Matt Bonner was not able to establish himself in the rotation earlier this season.

    5 - This position had deteriorated to its worst since DRob left. That includes Radoslav, so that's saying something. Oberto is enjoying his finest season as a Spur, at least statistically, but still plays half a game. The two headed monster that was enough to win it all last season faded during the 1st half this season, primarily due to Elson, who unfortunately regressed after his first season with the Spurs. At least last year Pop could go with one or the other on most nights for half of the game and give TD the other half, before the postseason. Now with Thomas, the bigman rotation is solidified and Pop has some flexibility. Rebounding and toughness have been added. Some new wrinkles will be added on offense.


    It will be interesting to see how this season shakes out for the Spurs. They aren't where they were last season, when they were among the league leaders in offensive and defensive field goal percentage. But there are signs that they are slowly rounding into post-season form. In an ultra-compe ive Western Conference that has seen some interesting player movement over the last month, it will be imperative that the Spurs tighten things up and settle into executing at both ends of the floor. That starts obviously with getting Parker back and getting a rotation set for the post-season. If Barry is indeed bought out by the Sonics, it would be nice to have him back for depth and experience (if healthy). Right now many claim that the West is wide open, perhaps it is. The Spurs have again been relegated to also-ran status by the same pundits who placed them there last year and in championship years prior. However, the Spurs don't play for the pundits but rather for rings.
    The Spurs have been playing better and better since the third game of the Road trip, with Gino providing punch from the start of the game rather than coming off the bench with the Spurs already behind. It will be interesting to see if Pop experiments with keeping Ginobili as a starter or if he goes back to his old lineup.

  19. #44
    Feeling it on D vanvannen's Avatar
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    I'll miss Barry a lot. He could really space up the floor for the Spurs on nights when Timmy is getting ass raped inside.

  20. #45
    Winning bigdog's Avatar
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    I wouldn't play Stoudamire at the 2 unless it's in a smallball situation.

    With the deadline passed and the Spurs losing a shooter, look for them to possibly bring in a D-league guy such as Dermarr Johnson or Keith Langford.

    Also, Flip Murray wasn't traded from Detroit today, and word is that if they couldn't trade him, that they would buy out his contract. So, the Spurs could possibly pick him up for the minimum if the Pistons buy out his contract.

  21. #46
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Thomas in the starting lineup


    remember Nazr benched Rasho and Nazr came to the Spurs at last second of the trade deadline
    If I remember correctly Rasho sprained his ankle.

    If Oberto and Thomas are the center rotation they'll probably be started depending upon matchups. Oberto for more scoring and Thomas for more defense.

    Running Parker and Damon out there in the backcourt puts a lot of pressure on Tony to defend someone that's likely going to be bigger or stronger. I'm not sure I like that idea, at least until the playoffs.

  22. #47
    Believe. barbacoataco's Avatar
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    Barry didn't even contribute much in last season's playoffs, so I don't see how his loss is that much of a problem. In the playoffs, Bowen plays a lot of minutes, and then Ginobili and Finley will get 30+, and Udoka also in there.

  23. #48
    PRICELESS SPURS FAN polandprzem's Avatar
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    TP
    Finley
    Bruce
    Tim
    Oberto
    -------
    Gino
    Thomas
    Udoka

    That's the 8-man rotation for the playoffs with minor roles for Horry Vaughn and maybe Damon.

    Good thing is that Thomas will fill the role of a center that we need to clog the lanes esp. baselines. This trap was not as effective with just one bigman and the spurs are back to the twin towers version defense. Also rebounding will determine how usefull Thomas will be.

    As I said before, Finley must stay consient, Udoka and Bowen must to step up in a shooting area, TP must be 100% and Manu hopefully will stay hot which will be difficult, Tim must be a Duncan and I like our chances.

    One of the teams ed up (with the trades) - Dallas, Phoenix, Lakers or the Spurs

    With the West so tight - remember - denver, Utah, NO, GS even Houston are coming strong. It never was that way in any conference in a history.
    Wow
    Last edited by polandprzem; 02-22-2008 at 07:38 AM.

  24. #49
    Veteran WalterBenitez's Avatar
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    Manu needs to go back to the bench, otherwise won't get that 6th man prize!

  25. #50
    GIVE IT TO GINOBILI beirmeistr's Avatar
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    Manu needs to go back to the bench, otherwise won't get that 6th man prize!
    I beleieve he has indicated in the past that he does not want a 6th man award.

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